Doc

One thing I have picked up on over the years is that fall is the time when deer patterns shift the most frequently. Food sources and cover are rapidly changing. So the one spot fits all approach doesn't cut it for me where I am. What that means is that I do have to do a lot of in-season scouting. While it is not impossible for a deer to wander by at mid-day, usually the most effective time of deer movement is at both ends of the day. So some portion of the mid-day is the sacrificial time for me to go out and see what the heck is going on in other areas and how the food sources are shaping up and being used. That way I have some scouting results to base the next stand location on.

I'm pretty much more concerned than excited. I don't know why, but I am running way behind on everything this year. I haven't got the broadheads on .... hope there's no surprises there. I haven't checked out shooting with heavy clothes on .... hope there's no surprises there. I haven't put much time into scouting .... hope there's no surprises there. Summer construction projects have taken a bite out of my time and have put pressures on pre-season lawn and house activities, so everything's running late. Oh and then they shoved the season ahead a couple weeks. I may have to delay my start date. And where the hell has the summer gone? Seems like it was just greening up for spring.

You can't keep beating on guns and now ammo without some pretty dramatic unintended (or intended) consequences. Hunters do need a break from all these constant attacks on essentials, or I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it doesn't begin to have impacts on hunter numbers. Something's got to give.

I'm not disagreeing with all that. I am simply proposing a possibility as to why those particular things are legally sold here. It may all have to do with the wording of that particular law.

This is another one of those topics where each side has it's battery of "experts" and research and studies. Each one looking just as official, complete and authentic as the other. And then we are supposed to form some kind of opinion based on technology that no one here really understands. For example, It would be interesting if only there was one unified opinion that explained in layman's terms just why carcinogens and other brands of poisonous items are the only thing that allows for the extraction of gas via fracking. Yes, I am sure that would lead to a small encyclopedia sized document written in physics-speak that even some of those "experts" would have a wrestling match with.

There also is an interaction between Baiting and feeding, both of which are illegal in NYS. It's a pretty tough legal distinction when you try to separate bait and food. A big bait pile is also a "food station". Now you get involved in trying to enforce motives for that big pile of corn that you have your camera set up over.....lol.

I'll bet they probably said that the law specifies the illegality of using baiting products, not buying, selling or possessing them. That's my guess. I would really like to see exactly how they did reply. I hope you come across that e-mail.

That about sums it up. It is recreation. I am not putting in a life or death sustenance activity .... lol. It's supposed to be fun, so I approach the whole deal with a pretty casual mindset.

No. I am no longer surprised even if they have their spots well into October.

So, you actually found a Ranger/warden who got out of their car and into the woods. That really is incredibly bad luck. I would have sworn that was impossible unless the camera was strapped to a tree next to the parking lot. It appears that no matter what you do or how much you read, you are likely breaking some sort of law everytime you go out. Nobody, not even the LEOs know all the laws. No matter what.....you are a crook!.....lol.

I say add a little challenge to the activity ....... use a unicycle.

I say, "beat 'em if they wont hunt"

Other than opening day of gun season, I never put in all-day hunts. I hunt for a few hours in the morning and then strategically wander around doing a little scouting just to see what's going on that I didn't think was going on. The in the afternoon, I take another sit-down til quitting time. I get bored easily so sitting in one spot never does hold my attention. Opening day, with hunters moving all day, there is a little more intensity and the boredom just never takes ahold. Of course the periodic shooting always keeps me pretty alert too. I've tried all-day bow-hunts, and it always results in just a nice long nap at some point.....ha-ha. I might better be up and moving and learning and updating my scouting.

I'll tell ya..... I am getting to be such a big fan of Google.......lol Https://fetlife.com/groups/5114/group_posts/5867902 http://www.michellenelsonstaxidermy.com/Field%20Care%20Rugs.htm http://themeateater.com/videos/skin-butcher-black-bear-steven-rinella/ http://www.holmantaxidermy.com/toppage2.htm None of these have been previewed for quality, but the Google listings go on, and on, and on, and on, and on. There are videos and articles, and one of them has to be just exactly what you are looking for.

Expectations- Do not think that there will come a day when you will be an expert. There are a lot of people calling themselves that, but anyone who is honest will tell you that they are constantly learning new things, and seeing yesterday's "facts" replaced with todays realities. So enter hunting with a long term view. It's a lifetime activity that will keep you guessing forever. It is a challenge and is intended to be exactly that. Treat opinion as simply "opinion" and apply healthy skepticism. Stay open to observation and interpretation and flexibility, and you will do about as good as anyone over the long haul.

What you may be seeing is an evolution of modern youth. A condition that I have heard referred to as the "pussyfication of American male youth" ..... lol. Well that is a rather crude characterization of it all, but I do believe there is something going on in society that is driving kids away from hunting and outdoor activities in general. The portrayal of hunters as low-brow, insensitive, brutish people is beginning to take ahold. The worship of technology and avoidance of physical efforts looks like it is having a serious impact on the existence of todays young people. Having good strong, fast, thumbs to operate the texting buttons of the smart phones is a whole lot more valued than being a crack shot on the range or a skilled woodsman on the hunt. It is all about the "kinder and gentler" directions of society. Good thing? ..... Bad thing? It all depends on your point of view. Yeah, I know. I sound like every other prior generation when talking about "the trouble with kids today". But just from casual observation, this is the way things look to me. This video does not shock or surprise me.

No, you left out a third type of member who whines about threads that he claims he has no interest in, but still jumps into them simply because it gives him a chance to criticize topics and people who happen to want to discuss some other aspects of hunting than just looking at pictures and stories of dead deer. Nobody cares how much you laugh at other members here. No one is pretending that they are perfect except perhaps those who get some kind of satisfaction from bragging about how they have shot more mature deer than others. What you are mistaking as preaching, is simply expression of opinion. You probably should be made aware that that is one of the prime purposes of forums. So if whining about other people happens to be another unstated reason that you are a member here, maybe you should be aware that this forum is not really all about you and the limited subject matter that you want to talk about.

I shot one doe on the opposite side of a huge oak I was hiding behind (about 5 or 6 feet away). She was coming straight at the tree offering no shot. I was circling the tree as she went by and then drew and waited for her to come out the other side of the tree. I was pretty messed up with excitement. Even that close it's a wonder I got the shot off. I was shaking like a leaf. In all the years of hunting in the trees, I never got a rush that extreme in my life. It was almost a toe to toe, eyeball to eyeball encounter.

Think log building nestled into a wooded section of the back yard. Perhaps a nice stone fireplace, with a well-stocked refrigerator hidden behind a wooden door. Big-screen TV, and some great sound system. And how about a back room workshop for reloading, and archery gear repair and tuning. Oh what the hell, let's attach a 30 yard indoor bow range, and perhaps a lift door that accesses a nice shot to the outdoor 200 yard shooting range and a nice sandbagged shooting bench to check out those new reloads. And maybe it's time to cultivate a new hobby of fly-tying. I'm sure some generous space for a fly-tying bench could find its way in there right next to the fishing rod racks and the tackle shelves. And the final touches of a nice comfy couch and instructions as to where and when the wife needs to take the meals. Life could be mighty fine.

Damn.... I've never been accused of persecuting anyone before.....lol. I have some pretty rock solid opinions about baiting and a whole lot of other things regarding hunting. And frequently I do get off on the preachy side of things. That's not intentional. It's just a bit of emotion creeping in. But I do understand that I am not some kind of sole arbiter when it comes to the right and wrong ways of hunting. But frequently I do try to encourage some elements of self imposed limits rather than the desperation of "I've got to get a deer at any cost". Ha-ha-ha .... Try doing that without sounding preachy....lol. But in the end, what occurs in the the hunting woods generally relies less on laws than on individual conscience. And maybe there have been some elements of this topic that might help on that score a bit.

My first deer with a bow took 7 years. Back in the 60's, a bunch of us guys would have Monday morning gatherings around the coffee pot at work and talk over the events of our bowhunts over the weekend. The big topic back then was when somebody actually saw a deer. And boy did the stories get super involved and intense when someone actually got a shot. And if somebody actually got one, the BS session went well into actual working hours.....lol. And there was no question of "Gee, what did he score?" First of all it wasn't likely to even be a buck, and second there was nobody knew or cared about any kind of scoring system. So 5 years without getting a deer is not anything that is going to get my sympathy..... lol. People sure have gotten spoiled rotten these days.

The original post was not about mature deer. It regarded any deer. Why people are intent on trying to convince everybody that baiting does not work is beyond me. I'm sure that the multi-million dollar baiting and bait dispensing industry has not flourished simply because the whole world is wrong about the effectiveness of baiting.

This thread was not intended to be a "right or wrong answer" kind of question. Right or wrong resides in our own minds when it comes to why we hunt and how we hunt and what really constitutes "fair chase", or even whether fair chase should even be a hunting consideration. And tied in with that internal judgment of right and wrong are the motivations and definitions of what hunting means to each hunter. There are people who see a canned hunt as meeting their needs for success and a satisfying hunting experience. There are those that draw their lines at baiting. And there are those that would settle for no more of an advantage than a stone axe and one hand tied behind their back.....lol. It all boils down to just what technique or weapon or advantage makes you still feel "fairly" matched to the abilities of your prey. Of course depending on whether feeling fairly matched to your prey is an important part of the hunt for each individual. The baiting question was just intended to bring that all out. I could have went with a canned hunt question, but I thought something more in the middle like baiting would bring out more discussion...... and it has.

I came out of the trees quite a few years ago. Sure it plays into my "extra challenge" thing with my hunting, but I have to be honest, it was a fear of heights that actually put me on the ground. I am a blind builder though. I think that if I were to forgo a blind, I would learn to shoot with a ghillie suit (not the easiest thing in the world). But that is about the best open-ground camo that I can think of.

You know there are places around where you can pay your money and have a nice deer placed in front of you to shoot. And if you like shooting deer at a feeding trough, they can fix you up with that too. ..... lol. Just kidding, but you know how that quote above makes it sound.