Doc

Lol ...... I have done similar things. Last time was my release. Yeah, I ususally throw a tantrum and depending on what time of day, I may decide that it is too late to try again. Man, that is aggravating!

Yeah, I think that just because an animal is in the wild, unattended to, does not mean that they are free to shoot. I'm pretty sure that special permissions have to be arranged before anyone can shoot escaped critters.

I'll bet that everyone who sees that, associates it with a hunter.

Actually farmers have a lot cheaper places to buy feed than Dicks. The stuff sold at Dicks, Gander mountain, Bass-pro, etc. are strictly designed and marketed for hunting/baiting purposes.

So what do the experts say? Anybody ever notice how carcasses are hung in a slaughterhouse? I've never been in one, but maybe someone here has. It would be interesting to see if they have any reasoning behind whatever way they choose. I have always hung them by their hind legs, but if you were to ask me why, I really have no reason for it other than that is the way I was shown and that's just the way I have always continued doing it.

Actually that was done in less than a minute using an Excel spreadsheet that I designed 8 years ago. So calculation time was instantaneous. The required inputs are: Deer speed (fps) Walking =3.5 - 4 (I used 3.5) Running =35 - 40 Arrow speed (fps) Distance I am not trying to convey right or wrong. Just providing info for educated decisions.

I was thinking the zip-ties also. Aluminum signs with two slots cut along the sides. Thread the zip-ties through the slots and around the trees, and you probably have nearly a lifetime installation. No nails at all.

We definitely got into some heavy wind yesterday. The trees were bending over and a lot of leaves were coming down. However, for most of the immediate area, there are still quite a few leaves still hanging on the trees. It kind of made me wonder just how much such a heavy wind might affect impact points on a target (or deer). I have to admit that over all these years, I can't recall doing much shooting in super-high winds. I probably should have flung a couple yesterday to see what they do. It would have been a good "cross-wind" to my arrow flight.

Yeah, back to the topic ... lol A deer average walking speed is 3.5 mph - 4 mph. If a deer takes a step or two while feeding, that is likely its forward speed. If you assume that to be the speed that he moves, that is 61.6 inches per second. If you shoot a 50 yard distance with a super fast bow that is much faster than almost all of the hunting bows in common use (I used 400 FPS), the arrow over that 50 yards will be in the air 0.375 seconds. And that assumes no deceleration during flight (for calculation simplicity). So over that 0.375 seconds, if the deer takes a step or two at time of release, the deer will have moved 23.1 inches by the time the perfectly shot arrow gets there. So add that one more little factor to the many other errors already mentioned, that are magnified as shot distances grow. Look, I am not saying what other people should or shouldn't do in terms of shot selection. I only know that the list of variables in long shots are many and they all seem to grow significantly as the distance grows. So that simply is the reason why I treat the bow as a short-range weapon and limit my shots severely from my personal capabilities. I can control my own abilities, but there is no way I can control what the deer does. Everybody has to make their own choices. I am simply conveying thoughts as to some of the variables that occur to me, and why I voluntarily limit my shooting distances. I'm sorry if that caused someone to lose their mind, but these things are my own opinions which I believe is what internet forums are mostly all about.

The one thing that is probably true of any general rule of thumb regarding Ma Nature is that for every rule there are a jillion exceptions. And of course, I can easily come up with one example of a badly wounded deer that ran away from water, up hill ... lol. Probably could come up with a bunch more if I sat and thought about it a bit. I can only remember one deer that died near the water (actually in the water) and that one was simply because she was crossing the crick heading toward the hill. She just didn't happen to make it past the water. Actually, a good rule of thumb is that a deer will go somewhere, and that probably will be away from the hunter that shot them.

Yes there are still a lot of smokers left, until you compare the number today with what there used to be. Once the government decided to change that particular behavior of its citizens and put the full force of the government against that activity, it really was wildly successful. And the result is a very tiny, insignificant minority of people that engage in smoking anymore. When the government decides to decimate an activity, they certainly have discovered the means of doing it. And they have figured out how to do it without actually outlawing the activity. So if they decided to use the same practices on guns and ammo, we can all get a peek at just how effective that could be. And all without any tampering with amendments and such.

You know, everyone will simply ignore this post and instead talk about how impossible a repeal of the second amendment is, but I would like to mention that it doesn't take a repeal of any amendment to effectively eliminate guns and ammo, as ants' reply mentions. Case in point is cigarettes. They are still legal to purchase, so supposedly everyone has the right to purchase those products. However, look at how effectively the government has put a hurtin' on the tobacco industry through citizen behavior modification, via taxation. If they decide to tax guns and ammo to death, how is the 2nd amendment going to stop that? If you have a renegade, 2nd term, nothing-to-lose, president who now feels politically free to push his anti-gun agenda, I guess he can probably figure out a way around a pesky old Constitution. It's not like there's no precedent.

I have an aerial photo that I usually go over with my wife to point out exactly where I intend to hunt and my intended route to get there. She is very familiar with the hill, so when I mention landmarks up there, she knows exactly what I am talking about. Also, I check to make sure that my phone is fully charged. I also give my bow a quick look for any problems before I even take it out of the house. For gun hunting, I always hunt defensively. That would involve adequate amounts of blaze orange. Also, I generally sit at the base of a very large tree with my back totally covered. I am always on the look-out for approaching hunters and when one is in sight, I keep my eyes fixed on him until he is out of sight. Here is one of those things that falls into the category of do what I say, not what I do ..... go hunting with somebody. There are a lot of situations that you may not be able to handle by yourself where having someone expecting to see you or hear from you can provide more timely help than just a panicky 911 cell-phone call to someone that has no idea where you are or any of the location descriptions you are trying to explain. Also, for some of us older hunters, dragging a deer can be a lot safer with some help. Also, radios (walkie-talkies) probably are not all that bad an idea for hunting partners, with the intent of periodic pre-planned contact times.

It's been a few years since I smoked, but I can tell you that I have killed quite a few deer where I had to butt-out the cigarette before shooting. Certainly smoking does not help your odds of success, but you either have the wind right or you don't. However, Having said all that, I do believe that cigarette smoke is is a strong scent that goes out in a dense configuration and hangs together for a lot longer distance that the usual human scent. So bearing in mind that wind directions are not always consistant and that it is normal for wind to cycle back and forth, there is always the possibility that the strong scent of the smoke may adhere to vegetation and such if it blows to the trail that you are watching. That can't be good. I would add all that to all the other line-items on a list of good reasons to quit smoking.

Deer make a whole variety of sounds including a very low gutteral bleat which maybe could be described as a "gargling sound". Regarding the arrow, you say there was no blood. How about other things like fat, grease, or any other material other than the normal finish? Ha-ha ..... I guess I'm probably a little late with the questions. By the time you get back on the computer, you probably will have just finished taking your deer home.

Actually, when you think about it, with access from my driveway, probably locks and cables wouldn't have prevented this theft since they could bring in whatever tools they needed to do the job.

I'm not sure it was a "fellow hunter". The more I think about it the more I'm getting convinced that the point of access was right from my driveway. If you saw the density and the surrounding acres of multiflora rose, I really doubt that anybody came in from the state land side. Also, there is a 6' long tire mark in front of my driveway where somebody spun out. My guess is that it was somebody in a hurry to get the heck out of there. That means it could have been anybody. Could have been a delivery truck driver that spotted it and came back later, or just one of the many people that come up our driveway by mistake, or just somebody that pulled up in there to relieve themselves (lol ... they do that a lot). That is one of the problems with having such a long driveway without any visibility to most of it. But anyway, the thief may not have been simply a wandering hunter.

It sounds like it was a freak accident. Some how he got the harness tangled around his upper body. That is a deadly situation because of the pressure on the lungs. I hope they do a bit of a study on that and publish some recommendations. It may turn out that such a thing could happen with any make and model of harness. It sure would be good to know. It seems like there may be some important things to be learned from that accident.

I wonder if there wouldn't be some way of tying the issuance of nuisance permits to opening up some land for public hunting? I'm not sure how that might be worded or how the details might be worked out, but certainly I can see a connection between a farmer complaining about excessive deer vs. that same farmer limiting the DEC from using their chief population control tool .... hunters. Wouldn't you think there should be some strings attached to those permits that might remedy two problems at once?

Look, it's obvious that you are just trying to be obnoxious and start a little flame war. I really have no interest in that. If you cannot conduct yourself properly in a discussion, then there is no real point in even talking to you. I am assuming that you don't agree with my assessment of the lack of impact of the extended bow season on small game hunters. I suppose you could have simply said that instead of stomping around and raving and throwing out the insults. But apparently that's not your style. So if that's the way you conduct conversations, I can't imagine any reason to continue this "discussion".

Yes, with all the North-south valleys, and a normal wind usually out of the west. The weatherman's wind-direction forcast is only a "suggestion". The real wind direction at a stand is always TBD.

Well, you asked for it .... lol. This is going to get long. I started archery at ripe old age of 11. I found an old "draw-shave" in a room over the garage, and hacked down a hickory tree and began to build a long-bow. When I got done it looked like an actual bow ... lol. A little twine for a string and some un-fletched willow branches for arrows, and I was ready to go up into the hay-loft and hunt some pigeons. That was the beginning. During that same year, when Christmas time rolled round, I found a book on building laminated bows. Figuring it was better than a tie or a pair of socks, I bought the book and wrapped it up as a present for my Dad. Well, guess what. Next thing I knew he was buying and building specialized wood-working tools and a glue drying oven, and was cranking out some pretty exotic looking laminated bows that shot pretty darn good. Each of us kids got one, and he sold a few. He even built a special building to make bows. Unfortunately, he found that he could not compete with Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, and all the other bowmakers of the time and that activity folded. But we all learned quite a bit about what goes into the construction and hand-finishing of recurves. His next venture was a family owned and operated commercial 70 acre NFAA 28 target archery range with a restaurant and a full line of archery equipment sales. That was when we all got serious about competition and deer hunting. We stayed open for about 5 years and even did fairly well at the beginning, but eventually, different family members got married and drifted off to other parts of the country, and the work-load got a bit too much for those of us that were left. So the business was shut down. However, in it's wake was a lifelong love with archery and bowhunting. Who was my mentor? .... Well technically I was the one to introduce archery to the family, and we all were kind of like the blind leading the blind .... lol. Somebody would read something in a magazine and then pass the info around. So I guess there were no official mentors other than each of us mentoring each other. Camo??? It was a bunch of years before I ever even thought about camo. Dungarees and a red checkered flannel shirt was about as close to camo as we ever got for a long time. Equipment?? Well I suppose the first was that hand-made hickory bow. Then there was the bow that Dad made. My first purchased bow was a Ben Pearson hunter. That was followed by a Shakespeare, and a Wing Gull, and then came the Bear Magnum, Damon Howatt, Bear Minuteman take-down, and a bear tamerlane, and then finally came that old war-club called the Bear Whitetail Hunter (My first compound). I killed as many deer with that as any of the super-expensive high-tech bows that followed (and there was a lot of them ...lol). It was a regular "killing machine" and I hung on to that for a lot of years, finally giving it to a friend of my youngest son. Scent control??? Hah! That only meant keeping the wind in your face. That's all there was. I do remember buying an aerosol can of apple cover scent. It probably made absolutely no difference .... lol. Hunting clubs??? I was a member of The Avon Bowmen for quite a few years along with my wife and kids. That was a pretty intense activity with week-end league shoots, a weekly Wednesday nite league, and an indoor league held in an old building in Caledonia. Along with all thatwere the work parties for course and grounds maintenance, and the monthly meetings. Eventually, work demands began to erode that activity and the 30 mile commute to the range started to wear a little bit, especially in the winter. So I quietly faded out of the tournament action and concentrated only on hunting. It's been a lifetime of full involvement in archery and bow hunting that is still pretty active even today.

Lol .... it was a completely different activity than it is today .... that's for sure. Compounds were not really on the market back then, or at least I was unaware of them. Recurves were the state of the art weapon. Feather fletched port orford cedar arrows, and Bear razorheads. That was all the hot set-up. It took me a while before I started using a sight. Most everyone was shooting instinctive then. It was a fun time. Oh, and it was quite a few years before I saw my first bowhunter in the woods....lol. And that was hunting on state land. I think one of the reasons that we were able to get our own season back then was because nobody really took us very seriously and our impact on the herd was totally insignificant. But the challenge got a few of us fanatics out there.

Since 1965.

I agree. Of course in my situation, I don't have a choice. Treestands could be guaranteed and I still couldn't get up in them .... lol.