Doc

I remember a long time ago somebody on this forum or its predecessor came up with a chart on the internet that compared recoil of various calibers out of various guns. I have had no luck locating that chart anywhere. Does anyone know the web location where that might be found? That probably would help with the recoil thing since I am not going to get a chance to test-drive all the different selections.

Considering the attitude of the neighbor, I probably would have laughed in his face and invited him to leave.

Back when I bought my .223 I took a look at the Thompson Center single shot break-action rifles. They definitely will be on the list to look at. I don't see the single shot feature as being any kind of a handicap. Generally speaking, I really only use one shot anyway.

Most of my hunting is done in open woods, without much cover other than an occasional tree big enough to get behind. That's not a problem when I am out 50 yards or more, but when I am closing in to 20 yards, it sure does seem like I am hanging right out there in plain sight ..... in fact, I am. Not usually a lot of choice in that. I have no problem if I am behind a blind or something and the deer is coming to me. But when I am going to the deer with basically no cover, I have to say that I have never successfully pulled that off.

One of the reasons why I make a big deal out of the recoil is the years of punishment from my 12 guage .... lol. But the main reason is that I have a shooting range up on the hill that I spend a fair amount of time at. When my Brother-in-law visits, it is not unusual for us to spend a couple of hours on the range, shooting off the bench. Too much recoil can shorten up those target sessions significantly.

Budget is a bit tight. Off the top of my head, I would be looking in the neighborhood of no more than $700 - $800 total ..... Gun, scope, strap, and a couple boxes of ammo and reloading dies, bullets, and some brass.

No, I have a new Remington .223 for varmints. My moose and elk hunting years are about over. As far as bears, they are legal game here in Ontario County, and if I were to encounter one while deer hunting, it would be nice to have enough gun to take care of them too. But primarily, this gun would be my deer rifle.

Just like any other activity. There has to be a certain percentage of people participating that are a bit mentally unstable. You can only hope that you don't inadvertantly come in contact with one of them.

So the question is, was he shooting at squirrels the way he said, or was he shooting at the deer. There seems to be no evidence one way or the other, or at least no evidence of illegality that the CO could determine. I don't know whether you felt there was a poaching attempt, or if you felt he was shooting at you, or both, but you did the right thing by leaving it to the authorities. Let them do the job, and live with the results (not that you really have any choice). Here's a nifty thought ..... maybe he was trying to interfere with your hunt by scaring the deer off .... lol. There is an interesting illegal act that would be just about impossible to prove. Were you in plain sight of where he was shooting from? I suspect that it all was just an unfortunate coincidence. Sure enough these kinds of unfortunate coincidences can be mighty irritating. They usually are nobody's fault, but that doesn't lessen the disappointments. I've had similar hunt interferences, but it is not because anyone was doing anything wrong.

Wife thinks a new deer rifle would make a heck of a good Christmas present for me. With the law change looming to allow rifles in Ontario County deer season as being a very strong possibility for next year, I agree. So now I have to start the selection process. First of all, after years of having my shoulder slammed to death with my old 12 guage Ithaca, low recoil is very high on my list. The first one that comes to mind is a .243, but I also realize that that caliber is right on the hairy edge of being too light. Yes I read the thread on the .243 and understand that a whole lot of deer have been killed with the .243, but I want to add in a little factor of safety into my selection. Tomorrow, I will test shoot my son's .270. I suspect that will be right into a good comfortable recoil that will be acceptable with plenty of horsepower to knock down deer. Of course, I realize that opinions will be all over the place on caliber selection, make and model and all that, but I will ask anyway. What do you all consider to be a good, lightweight, deer rifle, that won't put black and blue marks on my shoulder if I decide to spend a couple of hours of bench shooting, but also won't put any serious black and blue marks on my wallet. I'm thinking bolt action, magazine-clip, and nothing terribly fancy or exotic. Also single shot rifles are not out of the question. I'll also be looking to top it off with a good scope (probably a 3x-9x variable). But then, that's probably better left to another thread.

I keep my bow shots down to 25 yards and under. I consider myself a fairly good still-hunter. But I have yet to pull off successful stalk into that close a range on a bedded deer without spooking it before getting in range. And worse yet, the older I get the less "sneak" I have left in me .... lol. It takes good balance and a very light step, both of which are getting harder for me every year. But even in my prime, I could never get within bow range of a bedded deer. So that's why I posted this question. I was curious if there were any people who have ever done this. Now I'm not talking about 50 yard shots. I do that on a regular basis when gun hunting. But closing that last 25 yards with my bow seems to be where I get nailed everytime. I guess they have nothing to do but lay there looking and listening and catching any little back-draft of wind current .... lol. And then of course, if there are more than one of them bedded together, it get exponentially worse.

Has anyone here been successful at stalking and killing any deer with a bow and arrow? Is it possible?

As far as I know, there is no regulations against taking albinos, white color phase deer, or black color phase deer.

I'd have to check it out, but I would guess that the bait issue is related to hunting purposes only. I have not checked the wording of the law, but I believe that some kind of deer or bear or turkey, or game bird, hunting has to be involved before it is defined as "bait". However, the use of edible deer food attractants is still illegal in all circumstances because it is technically "feeding" which is illegal everywhere except in Sullivan County.

I haven't heard it yet this year, but in years past, I have heard guys walking through the state land blazing away at trees or whatever, sounding like a some kind of deer drive .... lol. That was their idea of target practice. Any deer that had any thoughts of moving during daylight hours quickly changed their minds when that stuff started. Was it legal? ..... I'm sure it is. But it sure was un-nerving for bowhunters and small game hunters alike who found themselves in the path of these guys.

By the way, speaking of unwanted trespassers, I thought I would pass along a little trick that I once used. I had an old red hunting jacket that finally started to fall apart from old age. I hung it from a sapling just deep enough into my property line so that the red could be seen from my posted line but not close enough so anyone could tell that there was nobody in it. I remember that there were a few hunter tracks in the snow that approached that area on my side of the posted line and then made a hard turn toward the other side when they spotted that blob of red. It was pretty funny because you could see that their stride increased as they took off for the other side of the line. It worked like a charm, and after a couple of seasons, I didn't have any problems with guys sneaking over onto my land. It was kind of a scarecrow for trespassers. They began to figure that there was always some pesky landowner always hunting and/or patrolling that land. Anything red or orange will work. The other good news is that as the thing hung out there in the woods, the deer eventually ignored it and used to walk right by it.

I think the question was about the legal status of the crossbow issue. Not whether it is a good idea or bad idea. I'm kind of curious myself since the news on status of crossbows for both bow season and gun season seems to have gone completely quiet. What is the next legal step and when?

I don't know .... last time I saw him he was walking around pretty normally, and was constantly eating. He looked quite healthy, but .... who knows?

We know what the stated purpose is, but our own internal experiences with gun-control laws and regulations show that there is always an incrementalist or evolutionary aspect to all such laws that make them expand in scope over the years. Many times, the most innocent looking laws/treaties serve only as "foot in the door" instruments. I don't blame people for viewing this kind of thing with a suspicious eye, particulary given the attitudes of our own country's leadership who we would otherwise normally look to for protections. Also we can talk like we know all the details of this treaty by simply parroting back the sales points that have been handed to us, but the fact is that we do not have first hand info on the details and loop-holes of the treaty or the details of what the final version will turn out to be. So again, if there are those of us that are a bit suspicious of international involvement with any aspect of items that are legal within our borders, I see that as a positive thing. I would rather we adopt that watchful attitude than to just nod our heads and mindlessly swallow whatever prepared statements that come our way from the proponents.

I think you're right, but that neighbor isn't of the human variety .... lol. The day before yesterday, I decided to take a little scouting walk to try to figure out where all the deer are hiding, and about 100 yards south of the house I came across a big pile of turkey feathers and a bloody chunk of skin and feathers. Something had a turkey dinner. I'm afraid I no longer have a pet turkey. I've got to believe that there was something different about that bird. Not only was he acting entirely too casual about me and my activities, but it may have turned out that he wasn't all that swift about avoiding predatory critters. I'm just curious .... can a fox take down a full-grown turkey, or did it have to be something bigger like a coyote?

Don't forget that small game season is still in effect. I have heard all kinds of ruckus going on from some of the small game hunters. Sometimes it seems like they are just walking through the woods blazing at trees or chickadees or maybe each other .... lol. Here in the southern zone there is also a turkey season in progress. And also as has been already mentioned, guys are checking out their deer guns. So, there are lots of reasons to be hearing shooting going on, and lots of reasons for "kids in orange entering woods with rifles".

Since we already have registration for handguns I guess the original question was about long-guns. Well, I just want to point out that Canada experimented with that fiasco and have finally been forced to scrap the whole idea as impractical. But what the heck, I can see another nice bureaucracy created to handle that mass of ever-changing data. It's all paid for with government money, so it's free .... right? Sure .... let's put another bunch of people on the payroll doing worthless busy-work. Just another place for crazy errors and snafus and hardships for law abiding gun owners. It kind of reminds me of the time when I received a parking ticket from NYC when I had never even been to NYC. Yup, they had the make, model, year and license number right. Yeah, that was a pain to straighten out, but just imagine if that nonsense had involved a gun used in a homicide. Chances would be that I would be taken away in cuffs and then made to try to straighten it out. You people that want the government involved in every facet of your lives ought to take stock in just how deeply they already are interlaced in your daily activities. But then what the heck, it's just one more tiny inconvenience, right? And we have already seen how effective pistol registration is (apply a little sarcasm there). That burdensome mass of data can be undone (and routinely is), with a small dremmel tool equipped with a grinding stone.

I'll tell you that that is not just an "old-guy" problem. I recall a time while I was still in my 30's that I had stood for about 2 hours in 20 degree temperatures with my hands jammed into my pockets and my shoulders all crunched up trying to stay as warm as possible. And I'll be darned if I didn't have the same thing happen. The muscles just locked up and I tried several times to get the bow pulled back when a doe came by. Couldn't do it. And this was a bow that I shot tournament with all summer.That was 28 target (4 arrows each) and countless practice shots as well. Never a strength or endurance problem. However, 2 hours of tensed up frozen standing made the muscles react in a weird way that had absolutely nothing to do with age or strength.

I'm not sure about respect for the animal, but I must say that it was a pretty disgusting thing to look at. My basic reaction ....... Yuck! You know, those PETA people would do well to scan these forums from time to time and copy out some of the posts and pictures. Imagine how nice that picture would go in a PETA ad.

I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.