Doc

A north wind is from the north.

Have you actually read your last few posts? Do you know how much that really sounds like a Me-me-me attitude? Oh it doesn't count if you are a gun hunter. See, I know where you are coming from. You would like to not see bowhunters in your small-game season ..... right? Does that have a slightly familar ring to you? For those that are so ready to call bowhunters selfish and divisive, I hope you are all paying attention to this guy's posts. Look, keep using words like ignorance, and inconsiderate, and thick skull, and really "class up" the discussion if that's what gets you through the day. But your own words are displaying your true feelings of division. You have gone from accusing me of "bitching", which didn't work well for you, to now some problem that you have with bowhunters being in the woods while you small-game hunt, which really boils down to some personal problem that you have with bowhunters. Either way, it is pretty much demonstrating that you simply want to flame someone today. Well, if that's what you're here for, knock your socks off, but at least try to make some sense while you're doing it. Yes, it does seem like "enough is enough".

Yes, there has been a significant invasion of habitat by builders. You can see it everywhere and it's not letting up either. One of the additional problems that comes of all this is the removal of the use of hunting to control the critters because of the new buildings. That's a real lose-lose situation.

See, this is what I don't get. I re-read my post, and for the life of me, I can't see anything that is bitching. And yet here comes somebody all torqued up in a spring-loaded position, just ready to get into it for absolutely no reason at all. And then, speaking of bitching (for real), this guy's worrying about me using a parking spot. And accusing me of bitching? What the heck is that all about?

Lol .... perhaps you should have used those books for something besides kindling. Seriously, I do wish you had read a few of those books and studies and you would have found that they performed a lot of herd management research and studies on controlled deer herds that involved reproduction and dispersment features and habitat effects/management and on and on. And by the way, hunter observations never played into any of these researcher's studies that I have read. No, herd management did not originate with the concept of ARs (lol), and no the idea of controlling populations with doe harvests did not originate in 1980. And yes there was a steady growth of herd management research as time went on, and is not finished yet. That's no surprise. But to contend that nothing of import was conceived prior to 1980, is simply not true. Of course the state and content of early research is not to be confused with the DEC's interpretation and implementation of that research. But in their defense, I have to point out that for most of NYS's history, it never was about "controlling" the herd. For a lot of those years it was all about growing or at least maintaining the herd. Hence there was no real thought about burgeoning deer populations or the need for doe harvests. And that was why there was the buck only laws for so many years. Actually a very smart policy given the state of the herd at the time. That could explain why it wasn't until the 50's that anyone even considered a need for taking does. Even though the size of the state herd was still relatively small, signs of growth had them thinking in terms of needing methods to control population growth. And by the way, with a few false starts as to how to proceed, they eventually came up with the way to handle that too. First the "doe day", and then the party permit system and finally the antlerless permit system. And guess what ..... returning the discussion to the original topic ..... none of that then or now ever had anything to do with ssome notion of the perfect gender ratio. It was all about population size and only population size. And any resultant gender ratio alteration was simply an accidental by-product and not an intent.

Sooner or later they are going to have to address the problem because there is no way that it will ever get any better until there is some human intervention. It's an urban and suburban problem that is developing across the state and is very hard to control.

Do not confuse lamenting a hunt that is busted by other hunters as some kind of claim that they are "infringing", or some kind of indication that we (I) believe that they shouldn't be out there. I know I made that point very clear in my earlier reply. And I don't know any hunter bow or otherwise that immediately starts dancing for joy when something goes wrong with their hunt whether it is hunter induced or anything else. So if a guy wants to let off a little steam about a busted hunt, that probably is understandable whether that guy is a bowhunter, or a gun hunter, or a bird-watcher. Second, bowhunters have not "cut into" anybody's season. We have not displaced one single small-game hunter or in anyway prevented or hampered his or her hunt. There is nothing that I or any other bowhunter (or any other kind of hunter for that matter) does that in anyway interferes with someones ability to hunt small game. That is the beauty of squirrels .... 5 minutes after someone has just walked through they come right back out and get back to work .... lol. The only major drawback to extending the season forward by 2 weeks is that now we have to choose between squirrel hunting and bowhunting. That's something that I don't particulary like since I enjoy both.

Yeah, I did miss that one ...... shame on him .... lol.

I practice out to 40 yards, but all my stands are set up for 25 yards max. The 40 yard practice is to gain confidence at 25. It also points out any form or equipment problems. However in hunting conditions, most deer that I have taken have been around the 15 yard range, with one taken at 5 yards.

No, I was talking about limbs/twigs that are not visible at the longer distances, particularly in compromised light.

No, when I said that the concept of treestand hunting has been over-sold, I was referring to a message that was implying that deer cannot be shot from the ground. The advantages of hunting from a tree are obvious but sometimes over-stated. Back in my treestand days and when I was still smoking, I often watched my smoke on a damp day curl right down to ground level. I also had deer busting me in a tree (usually because I didn't always pay attention to adequate back-drop). There is nothing like a huge lump in a tree trying to draw it's bow that will always grab the attention of a deer. And deer do have peripheral vision. On the other hand, a properly constructed blind leaves the hunter completely out of sight. As far as the hunter's vision through the woods, I guess in the early part of bow season while the leaves are still in place, I can see a lot farther from the ground rathr being up in the canopy. But yes, on the right kind of day, and with the wind in the right direction, and with the tree-stander not silhouetted against the sky, and when he is an adequate number of feet in the air, and with all or most of the leaves on the ground, there are definite advantages to hunting from the trees. It just is not the completely guaranteed situation that a lot of TV and magazine people would have you believe.

Here is what keeps running through my mind when we are talking these kinds of longer shots. I know that you can control just about everything on your end of the shot. You can practice until every arrow is in a kill-zone size target. But no one can control what is happening on the deer's end of the shot. One single step at the time of release will put the arrow into the guts. I've watched deer grazing in a field. They almost never stand still. A couple of bites, and there is that predictible step or two. Even browsing in the woods, same thing. The farther the distance, the more time for that step to take place right when you trigger the arrow or just after. I realize that at any distance a deer can decide to take a step, but the consequences are a lot more pronounced at longer distances. So yes, your shot can be flawless but the longer the arrow is in the air, the less control you have over what's going on at the target end. There is also another little thing that is a bit bothersome. At 20 yards or so, you can see just about everything between you and the deer. At 50 yards or so ..... maybe not. A branch/twig that far down range may not be quite so visible, especially in some low-light conditions. The obstruction may not even be in the direct line of sight, but the arc of the arrow may still make contact. Small point, but yet another example of how distance can change results.

No, not lately, but like I said it is only on this site that I have that problem with videos. If it were a cache problem, I would expect it would be any video, anywhere or even other computer operations that would be getting wacky.

Whenever I click on a video on my computer, the sound comes through ok, but the picture goes to white. I have no clue why that is, but I can watch videos on other sites with no problem.

Well, I am not going to get back into all those individual debates again, but I will say that characterizing it all as "whining" displays the attitude that I referred to. Whether people want to admit it or not, there really are two sides to all those issues, and that does not make one side or the other whiners. If you must use that term, I would suggest that there is ample whining and complaining coming from both sides.

Anyone else read anything in this thread that would indicate that "people that only hunt from the ground and don't utilize any other means think they are better than everyone else"? Frankly I haven't seen anything that was controversial in this thread until this reply. In fact I haven't seen anyone bragging about "how good they are" either. My gosh where is all that coming from? I have been enjoying this thread as one that simply has been a discussion about why people here choose one form of hunting method over the other and how to make each work. Let's not muck it all up with manufactured controversy.

I'm beginning to understand why gun hunters wonder why we need a special season for bowhunting. If it is becoming an accepted notion that a bow is a weapon that is effective at 50 yards and beyond, of course they have to question why we are given such a huge amount of prime time that is denied to them. Maybe technology has come to the point where it no longer makes sense to separate out bowhunting from other forms of deer hunting.

There .... finally someone who is clearly anti-bowhunting and puts it out there in an honest fashion. None of this "can't we all just get along" kind of stuff. Just plain old straight up hatred of bowhunters.

Yeah ... that's pretty much what I said. I don't get it. It has no relevance to this topic or anything that I have said. Paula is real smart like that .... lol.

LOL .... Maybe he's a game cop.

I have absolutely no idea what the first part of your reply is all about. It's unfortunate that you feel a need to call expressing a personal opinion to be greedy, private (whatever that is supposed to mean), and snobbish, but I stand by my assessment about bowhunting being more impressive when done at close range whether you like it or not. It's the way I feel and I won't apologize for that. Call bowhunters what ever names makes you feel good, but responsible shot selection is never greedy, private?, and snobish.

Good memory! You're absolutely right. And that is exactly how that happened. I was brushing in a pop-up stand. I think it was called uveitis (sp?) or something like that. It was basically an eye infection that seemed to last forever. A little eye irritation from a little piece of goldenrod fuzz is all it took to put me out of commission for quite a few weeks.

Actually, there are quite few people that have been convinced that if you're not in the tree-tops, you aren't hunting deer .... lol. Talk about a concept being over-sold. I'll bet I wouldn't be wrong if I were to say that many more deer have been taken from the ground than from the trees.

Actually, just to get off this anti-bowhunter frenzy that has taken over this forum, I would like to point out that the only "changing to fit them and their personal hunting choice" is not being done by bowhunters. It is the bowseason that has become the target of choice for changing to accomodate others and their personal hunting choices. And as far as bowhunters trying to prevent a youth hunt, that is just plain false. The truth is that it was the timing of the hunt that was at issue. I know it has a whole lot more emotional impact to claim that the bowhunters are against a youth hunt, but it also should be understood that that is a flat out anti-bowhunter lie.

You're right. I didn't have a clue they were there, in fact I don't think they were. Pretty much what I had predicted before. But what has been established is the precedent of deer hunting with guns and bows concurrently.