Doc

Are you certain that you are not mis-interpreting some rather innocent activity? If he's a non hunter, he may not even realize what a pain he is being. Have you had any conversations with him to ensure that his behavior is intended to be harrassment? I have a neighbor that seems to be busiest about 1 hour before sunset, and it seems that there is a whole lot of activity that kind of screws with one of my stands a bit. However, I know for a fact that he has no ill feelings toward hunters, and in fact he doesn't even know when or where I hunt. So, I'm just asking because it would be a shame to have hard feelings with a neighbor over something that is not being done to cause a problem.

The use of guns is not specifically contrary to NYS laws. The use of bait is. That's where I would draw the line. Note that the stores do not sell illegal guns. I just think that the stores that do business in this state should respect the intent as well as the letter of local laws.

I agree that they are covered ..... legally. However there is a bit of a moral question in my mind when you consider that they are somewhat complicit in terms of providing materials for illegal hunter activity and most likely fully understand their part in that. One might think that a store that is 100% involved in hunting might consider and be sensitive to local hunting laws and their potential part in those laws being broken. Yes it is a bit of a sticky subject and I can see both sides of the issue. But I will say that if selling those products that are illegal to use here gives them enough income to offset any controversy then most likely it can be assumed that that level of sales does involve significant numbers of local customers that are using the product in an illegal fashion. If that is the case, then they know that they are promoting illegal acts, and simply don't care.

Great question. It will be interesting to see what the answers turn out to be. I know that animals react to approaching lows, and seem to go on a feeding frenzy before storms. But also, since this one will be a bit of a prolonged event while it is here and will keep critters under cover for a while, there also may be a lot of feeding and other movement that will begin as the storm ends. So my answer is ..... your guess is as good or better than mine ... lol.

Yeah, I have been known to do the same. When I run across an old skull, rather than just leave it semi-concealed on the ground, I will stick it up where people can see it. It's just a way of sharing the find with any other people walking through the area. I never thought that anyone would be creeped-out by seeing where a deer had died. Is that really a concern to many of you? Does that upset you all? Maybe I shouldn't be doing that.

What you are describing here really does sound like a bear looking for insects. Was the log fairly well rotted?

It certainly is frustrating to have laws that are written in terms that can cause 10 pages of discussion as to how those laws are to be applied. The legal system is guaranteed to make a criminal out of you just about any time a LEO wants to make an arrest. Yes they say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. And then we have laws that are misinterpreted by even the people who enforce them, and cause ten forum pages of widely differing interpretations. Frankly, these clowns that write the laws don't seem to have even the basic understanding of communication skills. And these are supposed to be our trained, super-educated, legal minds that are conjuring up these fiascos. It wouldn't be so bad if it were just this one law, but a quick review of some of the topics that show up here, indicates that almost every law has many interpretations. Oh, and that's only conservation laws that we are talking about here. Imagine the laws you are inadvertantly breaking daily when we consider the rest of the legal system. We're all a bunch of crooks .... lol.

And hunting technology marches on ..... lol. I guess there really is no end to it, is there? What we really need is a satellite service that shows the location of all the deer on our hunting area. Hey, a little infra-red technology from up in space could make this hunting stuff a simple piece of cake .... right?

I agree. I think it is the little side effects of baiting that are the worst impacts on hunting. Some of the things that you have mentioned come to mind. What it boils down to is that it is an attempt to condition deer and make them move out of their natural random patterns just to make them more available for killing and to concentrate deer onto the property of the baiter, away from those that do not use bait. And yes, it becomes a requirement because it does change deer natural patterns for those that don't rely on bait. There is also the potential for starting baiting wars where neighbors try to out-do (out-spend) each other in an attempt to "hoard" deer. Of course the DEC has different reasons for outlawing baiting that regard herd health issues. But as for myself, I think that a baiting legality has the potential for changing the very nature of hunting for everybody whether you engage in it or not. And that change is not necessarily something that is good for hunting or hunters.

What a great stand last night was. 80.8 degrees when I left the house in the afternoon. I really need to buy a short-sleeve camo tee-shirt. It didn't matter anyway. I'm sure all the deer were laying down in deep cover until nightfall. Probably laying on their back with their feet in the air trying to suck in one good breath of air. The bugs came back out. I don't know what they are, but they don't bite. They just like swarming all over and banging into your face. Anyway needless to say, I saw absolutely nothing. Temp today is supposed to be in the 70's so I think this will be a good day to take off and get something done besides hunting. A lot of fall work has not been getting done. Actually, this weather isn't all that uncommon. It might be a bit extreme, but I remember other bowhunting days over the years when I had to forsake my camo for any old dull colored tee-shirt because of the heat. October is a wacky month. Guess I'll have to pickup some hot weather hunting camo or just skip the hot ones completely.

Maybe it had something to do with you sitting in the treestand that was set up next to it with your bow .....lol.

So, exactly how do you get a full-grown man out of a tree when he's dangling a bunch of feet off the ground. I've been trying to picture how I would go about it, but I can only visualize one rescuer on the ladder at a time. I suppose they may have gotten the ladder next to the guy so he could get on it. But supposedly he had some sort of ankle injury. Also they had to unfasten him from the tether. It's the kind of thing that sounds like it might be pretty easy to say, but not so easy to do .... lol.

I have no problems with them as long as they are picked up when you leave. We have all kinds of weird things hanging around the woods. You know old drip-tubes and such. We probably don't need a bunch of old aerosol cans laying around too. You would not believe the crap that people drag in and leave behind .... lol.

Kind of a "neighborhood watch" thing in the country. Great idea! My neighbor and I have a standing agreement to keep an eye out for each other's property. It's not a bad idea, because even though we are out in the boonies, there still are occasional burglaries and other crazy things going on along with the run-of-the-mill trespass situations. One neighbor goes south in a while, and we keep an eye on their place. We have a family contact to call if we spot anything that looks out of place.

I'm afraid Jennifer is probably right. Such semi-threatening statements puts you right at the top of the suspect list if one of his dogs meets a strange ending. That's not often a very comfortable place to be. Use some caution around these kinds of situations. Nasty neighbor wars can become pretty ugly and potentially costly. There are indications that some of these animal rights people are not always the most rational people that you will ever deal with....lol.

I am a little concerned about the use of unmarked cars, or cars that are difficult to identify, pulling people over. How long will it be before some of these non-law enforcement wackos start using light bars to stop people. I understand that sometimes cops need an unmarked car for radar traps. But they should use plainly marked chase cars just for the public's safety.

At this time of year, patterns can shift overnight. When the leaves start falling, expect summer patterns to break down. Also farm crops are being harvested right now, so that too can change deer movements instantly. Small game hunters add another variable. Other bowhunters can put pressure on certain areas and move deer into different patterns. Weather has shifted seasons, that can change the summer patterns of deer. There is also talk of some rut activity beginning. That absolutely will move deer. The point is that we are right in the middle of massive changes for the deer, and you should be expecting significant pattern shifts. And none of it has anything to do with foxes. No deer is afraid of a fox, that I have ever seen. Time for a little in-season scouting to play catch-up with the current deer movements. Personally I might be tempted to do a bit of predator calling after deer season, but it would have absolutely nothing to do with concerns about foxes changing deer behavior.

I do the same thing regarding noting the times when the first shot is fired. I have to say that most of the time, I have absolutely no idea of what they are shooting at or how they can even determine that what they are shooting at is actually a deer. That just gives you an idea of what things might be like if there was not some kind of reasonable limit regarding start and stop times.

I understand that the closer to dark we can hunt, the more active the deer are likely to be. But there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Weather conditions can heavily impact visibilty and actual safe and practical hunting light available. I've seen some cloudy, drizzlly days when the sunset or sunrise rule was even a bit questionable. I think I am pretty happy with the way things are.

"Hunting" means pursuing, shooting, killing or capturing (other than trapping as defined in subdivision 11) wildlife, except wildlife which has been lawfully trapped or otherwise reduced to possession and includes all lesser acts such as disturbing,harrying or worrying, whether they result in taking or not, and every attempt to take, and every act of assistance to any other person in taking or attempting to take wildlife. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'll bet the language about "disturbing, harrying, and worrying" relates to deer drives. I think the indication attempted is that drivers participating in deer drives (armed or not) are also subject to laws regarding hunting. That's just a guess, but it is the only thing that makes any sense to me. They want some words in the law to indicate that anyone participating in any kinds of hunting activities are subject to the definitions and laws regarding actual hunting. We have another thread that talks about the DEC laws prohibiting deer feeding being challenged based partially on "vagueness". Here is just another one of many that may someday be challenged on the same basis.

If "vagueness" becomes a successful standard for challenging Environmental Conservation law, there are all kinds of target laws that could become court cases. We may find that the primary activity and expenditure of resources of the DEC becomes handling legal challenges.

Bubba- Have you gone completely nuts or something? You have settled down into a mode of trying to pick a fight with every member of the forum, on this and every other thread that you have gotten involved with. Calm down guy. Life is too short. Pull yourself out of this combative mode.

In case you might have missed it, there has been a few pages devoted to the discussion of a reply made on the first page of this thread, mainly: Since I had the resources and the time I figured I would go to the source. But, thank you for being so concerned about my hunting, however I doubt that I missed anything. I've become pretty good at multi-tasking .... lol.

That's what I do too ....... now.

I probably wouldn't feel real good about dragging an opened up carcass through a swamp or other stagnant water. That feeling is not based on any particular known hazards, but it just would make me feel better if I left it buttoned up until after I got past the water. So, if I had the choice, I would wait until I got on the "home" side of the water before gutting the deer.