Doc

No, most likely I won't be making it this year. I think I had better spend the time scouting. I'm running way behind this year. I thought maybe if there was something really great, I might make the trip. But after so many consecutive years, there really hasn't been a lot that has been new. So maybe my time will be better spent doing something that really needs more work .... scouting.

Well, the reason anyone would walk (run) away and leave the illegal deer would be a reaction to having broken the law. So technically it would be something that wouldn't have happened without the change to ARs. And I still am honest enough to admit that such a thing absolutely could happen by mistake.

So you guys that attended today, has anything improved this year? Anything new there? Anything catch your eye as an exhibit that shouldn't be missed? I still have one more day left if there is any significant changes or additions.

Elmer- Where did you get the idea that this thread is the first time this topic came up. Did I ever say that this thread was where I explained alternative ways to recruit youths. See there you go again, you have once again imagined that I said something that I didn't. You seem more interested in flaming than in having any kind of intelligent conversation. Also, I don't know why you think I would ever be for the reduced shooting distance. Another brain fart ... lol. I never said I favored that. Hell, I was the one that started that thread. And by the way, while you were just flailing around trying to come up with who the hell knows what, I probably should mention that whether I am for it or against it, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything we are talking about. So there you go aimlessly raving about something that isn't even relevant. But again you are more interested in flaming than actually thinking. I hunt state land and that too has never been a secret, but you wanted to go off into some fantasy world without a care about the truth into a subject that has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. You really seem to have a problem staying on point and sound a bit like you are raving. So what exactly is your problem that you can't seem to get anything right and don't even care to. I tried to conduct a reasonable debate, but you seem to be determined to turn it into a flamefest. I'm not sure what to say to someone who is just simply angry that my opinion differs from theirs and obviously intends to take the occasion to make up all kinds of nonsense and interject goofy things that have nothing to do with the subject. My thought is that like Bubba, you have no intention of conducting a decent conversation and have a real problem tolerating any opinions that differ from yours. I would ignore your senseless raving and aimless lashing out, but when someone lies about things that I have or haven't said, I certainly am going to respond. LOL .... so consider yourself responded to ... ha-ha. And from now on, try to stick to the truth when describing my opinions, and try not to get so darn angry about somebody not agreeing with you that you lose your place in the discussion. It begins to sound a bit irrational. By the way, I apologize to anyone who is unhappy that I have replied to these kinds of misrepresentations, but there is no way that I am going to let that kind of thing stand. When I say something, I pretty much mean to say it and in exactly the way I say it.

Yeah but that wouldn't be a new or recent requirement would it? I mean shouldn't the DEC have always been required to carry liability insurance on that property? Maybe the cost of it went up or something, but I'm sure that being a public facility, they must have always had some requirement for insurance.

Oh geeeze, I really hate to get involved in that old "what's the matter with kids these days" thing. It makes me sound like every older person I have ever known .... lol. I have to laugh at the pants dragging on the ground with the multi-colored spikey hair and the 15 pounds of scrap iron hanging from every orifice. I have yet to understand why someone gets a charge out of poking a dozen holes in their body and then hanging something there that really looks like hell. But I guess that is their method of "expressing" themselves, so it's not up to me to worry about whatever floats their boat. I just look at it, chuckle a bit and then go on my way. If forced to talk to one of them, I try real hard not to stare too much. As far as the rest of it, I have found out that the most spoiled little brats seem to eventually grow out of it and do finally become some rather up-standing, productive citizens. There have been so many over the years that I swore would be crazy serial killers because of their super permissive upbringing. But I'm happy to say that with all of them, I was proven wrong. So, I guess when we are tempted to remark about the oddities of the current generations, maybe it's good to remember that we are often easily afflicted with a certain amount of culture shock from one generation to another, but generally things seem to turn out ok ...... so far.

State land .... unfortunately. But that's alright. It just puts the "hunt" back in hunting .... lol. I'm sure I'll do alright. It just will be a bit tougher than other years.

Hey, spiffy comeback there Sparkey. You're just out there kicking and flailing and completely out of control.....eh? Bitter little guy aren't you? Well, I guess if you are going to post nonsense and make stuff up, it might as well be something comical.

Hey, another noise from the psyche-ward. Long time since I've heard one of your little outbursts. The meds are out of reach or what? Thats too bad you have been keeping your condition pretty well under control for quite a while. I actually thought you were making some progress. Sorry to see you relapse. Well, don't ever give up as long as there's medication, there is always hope. But you've got to take it.....lol.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you just make this stuff up as you go? Honestly, you just blurt this stuff out with no regard as to whether any of it makes sense or has any relation to the truth. I can't discuss anything with people like that. It's like arguing with a door ... lol.

Childish .... lol. And I am not bitchen. I am simply keeping you guys honest.

Lol .... no, when I say there's not an apple in the entire valley, I am very serious about that. We had a forced blossom situation with super warm temps followed each night with severe frosts. Nothing survived. We have no chesnuts, we have no corn, we have no turnips and it looks like even the red oaks are without acorns this year. They have yards and browse and that seems to have them in a very scattered feeding pattern that has left the trails pretty empty. This is the first time in about 50 years of hunting that I have ever seen this situation here. It's weird and is going to make hunting a bit challenging this year.

Sorry, but just because you or anyone else hasn't have the interest to check out the alternative ideas that I have offered more times than I care to repeat, doesn't give you the right to say that none have been offered. Just because you don't want to take the time to check your facts doesn't give you the right to lie about them. As far as your question is concerned, I refuse to dignify the false implication with an answer. Some of us don't believe that the youth hunt has any impact on future hunter numbers. Some of us also believe that misplaced feel-good, window-dressing, style solutions can actually hamper real creative solutions by giving the impression that something useful has actually been done.

Actually I can say whatever I want to .... lol. Especially since that is exactly what they did. if you want to play word games, do it with somebody else. And as far as my opinions about your weak "reasons", I will point out that it is my opinion and I am entitled to that and it is every bit as valid as yours.

Two for two.

No. I recognize that carrion and dead deer in the woods is about as natural as the trees and bushes. Speaking of CWD .... what ever happened to all that.

Look, you are the one that is claiming that anyone who makes a misinterpretation of what tines are on what beam is akin to some kind of poacher. I simply am a bit more realistic and honest in that I have seen situations where that 3rd tine turned out to be on the wrong antler. And yes, I do say that there will be mistakes, and those mistakes will cause some waste of deer. That is the extent of my comments. I am not posing any alternatives or even saying that those kinds of unfortunate mishaps are a reason to nix ARs. But I am realistic and honest enough to agree with those that say that ARs will result in deer being shot and left. And I am not willing to pretend that it is always the hunter's fault.

I heard a couple of the vendors saying the same thing about the costs. It's a shame. My thought would be that the spots ought to be juried and then assigned for free (or nearly so) to those vendors and displays that they deemed suitable. The whole affair is really too important and effective to be keeping displays away because of costs. Sure, "off-topic" displays can go, and that's why I say, jury the displays ahead of time and be sure that they are all directly hunting, fishing and trapping related and then do whatever is necessary to make participants feel welcome. I am hearing way too many people that say they are no longer going because it is shrinking. I often wondered why there are not more rod & gun clubs represented. I remember back when I was a member of Avon Bowmen, we had two displays set up. One indoors with slide shows promoting archery, and another outdoors with a whole bunch of bows that I donated for that purpose. We let kids shoot and provided instruction. They had a ball, and I'm sure that we created more than a few future bowhunters at that event. Most of all those kids had never had a bow in their hands before. It was always an annual club project and drew a lot of attention. I don't recall display cost even being a consideration, even for the two different display areas. The whole event is sure suffering from the departure of Ron Shroeder (DEC). He really knew how to organize a hell of an event.

What the hell ...... I had no idea that there was anywhere in the USA where they had such a ridiculous system of gun registration for long guns. That is just crazy. That alone would keep me from ever living in that kind of repressive system. Seriously .. I am not a militia-type, but they certainly have crossed over the line. $100 for finger-printing plus $120 for the application. And then 4 months until you get the license (if you get it). That is just plain harrassment! And it's not even a pistol that we are talking about, but your favorite shotgun or rifle. Man, that is just plain BS!!!

No there are no assumptions. Your messages lay out your love affair with behavior modification very clearly. There simply is no other way of reading it. And I am just simply drawing comparisons with other champions of that philosophy. See your last sentence lays it all out very clearly. Many things can be justified with that phrase "for the greater good". And I do realize that for you it's not that big a deal. For some of us governmental behavior modification is a big deal.

Are the same people who complain about losing hunters now thinking that the youth hunt is the only salvation of hunting?

I never realized how dependant I am on wild apple trees. This year,there's not an apple anywhee in the valley. First time in memory. So a lot of the mashed down deer trails that went by a few of my more favorite stands are grown up with weeds. It's going to be a bit different this bowseason. Also, there are no acorns this year. So without any farmland, I am left with trying to puzzle out just what the critters are eating. I haven't figured it out so far .... lol. Just a little extra challenge this year. Anybody else being thrown a bit of a curve by a lack of apples?

Are you playing word games with me? Are you trying to say that you really don't know what I am talking about? C'mon, your smarter than that. Excuse me I've got to get into the dictionary and see if there is some hidden meaning to "stuffed into"..... lol.

No, that's got nothing to do with making hunters more responsible. That is simply adding on complexity and serves only as a harrassment for those that are not all jacked up on ARs. Now if the law is intended to only shoot bucks that cooperate by modeling their headgear in a certain way for you, then I think it goes way beyond a simple 3 point rule. In my hunting, the object is to arrange broadside shots and avoid causing the deer to look at you. That probably falls under the category of responsible hunting that helps guarantee a better kill shot and helps avoid a string-jump. And I might add that with that set-up, I have absolutely identified the target as a buck with enough headgear to satisfy me. That's just as much of a "positive identification" as guessing what points are attached to which antler. Lol ... why don't we add in some spread widths and tine length estimates, and maybe the size and color of the throat patch. Hell, we can make it so nobody will ever shoot a buck. Kidding of course, but would that be enough positive identification for you .... lol. I maintain that it doesn't take any of this nonsense to clearly and positively identify the target as a deer, and that is simply a red-herring argument to help justify ARs as having some sort of safety component to it. I ain't buying it.

Who knows how many mentors there are out there .... do you? How smart is it to automatically exclude a bunch of them. Does that really make a lot of sense to you? Does it really matter what percentage of available mentors would come from the bowhunter ranks why would anybody in their right mind exclude any of them?