Doc

And I assume the "large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over" is a direct quote without any editorializing ..... lol. By the way if there is any way possible, I would like a link to that quote. It's not that I am doubting your word, but I know how some of this stuff can get accidentally misquoted sometimes. In terms of "elitist crap", I assume you are talking about the crossbow issue. I don't want to get back into that crazy argument other than to say that it is pretty short-sighted to throw a whole bowhunter organization under the bus simply because of a disagreement on such a foolish issue. It does make a convenient issue to try to justify not joining though and there are quite a few people who are using oit exactly that way. By the way, I haven't heard of a whole lot of people who actually tried to join NYB to fight that issue from the inside. That's not quite as easy as sitting on the outside simply sniping at the whole organization over one issue. As far as the 1% speaking for all, that really is not such a strange condition, especially when you are dealing with a bunch of freeloaders who will take whatever the NYB does for them without bothering to join. Good deal for them .... eh? Also, your spokespeople are not always of your choosing, especially if you choose not to get involved. Those who have the backbone, ambition and dedication to take up the reins of leadership do generally wind up to be the authority that gets the attention of the powers that be. It's the old perception vs. reality argument. And it certainly is not their fault if the rest of the bowhunters fail to have any sense of dedication and organization. As to your last point, is that some kind of volunteering that I am hearing? That would be a refreshing change to finally hear someone who isn't just content to sit back, bitching all the time, but who actually would put their actions where their mouth is. Certainly it should be easy to wrest control from a mere 1% of the bowhunters. However, don't be surprised if within weeks or months, you become the target of the whining, bitching and moaning, and you wind up with 1% or less of the bowhunters for members. Advocacy groups become excellent targets for petty nit-picking especially when it comes to hunters. And it also seems to be human nature to take whatever freebies that are offered without actually joining. That doesn't seem to bother people one bit.

When they say it was a hunting arrow, do they mean it was tipped with a broadhead? As far as I know a broadhead is the only thing that differentiates a hunting arrow from any other arrow. If she was shot in the back with a broadhead tipped arrow, it is a miracle that she is still alive.

vietvet - I enjoyed the picture and thanks for posting it. It's not always the most friendly group you'll ever run into, but I just thought I would let you know that I did appreciate the picture.

Just how many people comprised this "large number of bowhunters"? What sources are you using that says that "large numbers of bowhunters" demanded anything? What possible evidence do you have that there was even a peep out of this so -called "large number of bowhunters". What I do know because I am a member of NYB and have followed the issue since its inception is that they publicly began the pressure back when the Saturday opener rules were implemented and we lost season length. That's not guessing, that is fact. At that point, the NYB began their lobbying efforts for an October 1 opener. Not anybody else. Not some mythical groundswell of bowhunters .... the NYB by themselves. My experience with hunters in general is that they do not rise up and speak their minds to anyone other than each other. So no, I don't buy your claim that there is some grass roots bowhunter activity that is at work on our behalf on any bowhunting issues. That is pretty much wishful thinking. Yes the NYB is suffering from membership shortages, and this constant self-destuctive carping over this and that is the main reason why. But, that small percentage of bowhunters known as the NYB fortunately has the ear of the DEC and the legislature, and whether anyone likes it or not, they are the only valid and recognized voice of bowhunters to the movers and shakers that have anything to do with bowhunting rules and regulations. No, we don't always get our way, but our way is the only official bowhunter voice in the state. So rather than sitting back and throwing darts at our own organization, you would think that those who have such strong feelings about some of the decisions, and some of the administration, would get off their dead rumps and try to fix it to become what they think it ought to be. Also, the only elitest, close-minded attitudes that I see at work are those that think there is something cool about badmouthing the only representation that bowhunters have in this state. Instead of strengthening and unifying, we are nit-picking and self-destructive. Everyone has something to say about the organization and it's administration, but no one is doing a thing to change it .... proving how much easier it is to criticise than it is to do something positive. The anti-bowhunting rhetoric that has been launched against the NYB is akin to the threat by the animal rights group to end bowhunting. There are two kinds of people in this state that absolutely revel in the fact that the bowhunters are completely disorganized, and the antis are one of them. Wouldn't it be nice if the rest would try to do something positive instead of simply assisting the antis in their campaign against organized bowhunting representation.

Yeah, I'm a lifetime New Yorker. And yes, I will complain about the taxes and the jerks in Albany right along with the best of them. But, here devastating tornados are a one in a lifetime event. We have an occasional paralyzing snowstorm, or icestorm, but nothing that threatens my house. Floods? ..... yeah, the nuisance variety. But no one talks about our part of the country cracking up and sliding out into the ocean. Hurricanes? ..... worst one was Agnes, and that is a old-time memory now. We don't have it so bad. We have some of the widest variety of topography from the plains of central NY to the hills of the finger lakes, to the mountains of the High Peaks Area. State land just about everywhere you look. Four real distinct seasons. Well balanced growing season. No poisonous snakes (at least not in my area). Fantastic landscape just about everywhere. Job opportunities (has been better, but still not devastated). And you can still find rural areas with thin populations to live in without someone sitting on your elbow. Good healthcare, decent infrastructure, Fantastic fishing, even some good trapping for those who get into that. All the conveniences that you need within a short drive. Sure we got a Cuomo, and a Schumer, and we even had a Clinton, but somehow we seem to be able to survive these idiots. The thing I've found is that the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence. Listen closely to people from other states, and you'll soon recognize the same kinds of complaints and problems and sometimes a bunch of new ones that we have never experienced. I'll be finishing out my days here, and enjoying almost every minute of it. Sure I'll whine and complain to anyone who will sit still and listen, but in the end, it is a fact that I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Another method of constuction that I favor is an "wall" blind. Basically it is built from some big fat tree. We have some huge mature trees that are big enough to hide behind and draw your bow. When they are not wide enough, they can have logs and brush stacked along the side. Preferably, I will see the incoming deer and get behind the "Wall" so I can shoot from a standing position where my drawing motions will not be detected. When I am drawn, I either tip out from behind the tree or let the deer continue along the trail until he is exposed on the other side. Properly built of old existing weathered logs, they look fairly natural and will last for years. Eventually, they simply become a natural part of the landscape. Works pretty well. What I like about your design is that you have 360 degrees of cover and view. Deer don't always cooperate by coming down the trail .... lol. I have been caught by deer coming in behind me for absolutely no reason whatever, and there I sit with absolutely no cover ...... Gotcha! It's happened more than once. The last picture is a bit hard to pick out. It is dead center of the picture and is a deer's-eye view at 20 yards.

I have never heard that before, but I'm thinking that method may be right on target. It never ceases to amaze me as to the silly looking gymnastics that some people go through try to draw their bow. So much has been written about the need for super arrow speed that people regularly over-bow themselves. This "rule of thumb" would definitely keep that from happening.

By the way, the fact that you are even getting an opening day of October 1st is 100% due to the efforts of the only bowhunter advocacy group in NY ..... the NYB. Had it not been for their constant lobbying, you would still be wondering why we start our season so late. Nobody else is out there pushing archery issues, and there are no other people in NYS that gives a rat's behind whether bow season even exists. As far as opening up opportunities for youth hunting, I have to point to the NYB operated youth hunts in Cador and in Syracuse. Let me also mention their work in providing money and instructor training for the National Archery in the Schools Program. I might also point out their successful lobbying for the use of DMPs for junior archers with no additional fee. Also there is the NYB Youth Camp that has exposed 1400 young adults to archery since the program's inception. You might note that they, being the only NYS bowhunter advocacy group at work in our state, are responsible for legislative pressure and success at lowering the bowhunter age to 12 ....... And on and on and on. I think they have done their part toward recruiting youths into hunting with good logical targeted efforts and programs. They probably don't deserve the constant nit-picking attacks that people have become so fond of launching (especially bowhunters who profess dedication to hunting with a bow but fail to do one thing toward furthering the sport). The fact is that there is no other group that keeps bowhunter's issues before the legislature ...... None. I have only listed some of the activities that involve youth hunting recruitment. I am not going to take up the space to list the legislative achievements, and the programs for disabled archers, and the programs for our service people overseas or other benefits that we all take for granted that were secured for us by the organization that so many want to see destroyed. There are a lot of young people who would never have been introduced to archery and bowhunting if these anti-NYB people had their way. Nobody has any problem with cheerfully reaping the benefits of the hard work of the NYB, but seem to be willing to discourage any support of the only bowhunters who have ever lifted a finger or dipped into their pockets to provide any benefits at all for all bowhunters over the last 21 years. Sorry to get off on a tangent, but frankly I get a bit tired of this incessant whining and sniping from people who offer absolutely no thoughts or ideas or activities about alternative organizations.

My initial reaction is that I would be surprised if this special season is even noticeable to bowhunters. I could be wrong, and since my hunting is almost exclusively on state land, I might be in for a rude surprise ..... lol. That remains to be seen. But I don't expect significant participation. But my point about the special season is simply that I don't see any reason why anyone should expect that hunters who do not take kids afield for hunting now during the regular season will all of a sudden get involved in taking kids afield during any special season. In fact, a special season represents even more effort on their part than if it was a normal day of hunting during a regular season when they were going to be out there anyway. Where is all this sudden outpouring of hunters helping kids into the sport going to come from? .... simply by declaring a couple of days as a special youth hunt? Sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking without a whole lot of logic behind it. Yes, we can flail around trying this and trying that and the only thing that really gets accomplished is that everyone assumes someone else is taking care of the problem because they have established all these fancy special seasons. Instead of fooling ourselves with special gimmicks, I would rather see programs established to recruit mentors during the regular season. Don't ask me what would get hunters to take up this kind of activity, but if we are going to pin our hopes on anything, lets get behind mentor recruitment and stop trying to cram new seasons into the year everytime somebody gets a brain-fart. Aim the solutions at the problems instead of just seeing how much controversy we can stir up. I'm thinking the DEC needs to open up a line of communications with archery and gun clubs and similar organizations and try to enlist their assistance with recruitment and mentoring. I think a PR activity at the time of license sales needs to begin to explain the crisis and the potential roles that hunters could and should take as a solution. These are things that will really make a difference, not trying to tear apart the hunting community with meaningless special seasons. I'm thinking that a lot of this cry for special seasons comes from people who do not currently get involved, and are hoping that merely creating the season will get someone else to handle it for them. The pitiful thing of it all is that no one has to go out with gangs of kids or go through any heroic efforts to maintain the inflow of new hunters. Simply replacing yourself and maybe one or two others along the way would do the trick. That's all it takes, and it is truly hard to believe that each one of us can't bring one or two people into the sport. What the heck is so important about what we are doing that we can't do something like that? I see the DEC as the catalyst for making this happen, and it really shouldn't take half as much effort as all this fighting and arguing about inappropriately stuffing seasons into other seasons in ways that are guaranteed to cause the maximum amount of controversy.

So there you have it. There is no way that hunters can get involved with any organization without being torn apart by controversy. It finally has come to me that we as hunters are incapable of getting along with each other on any subject or maintaining any organization that is capable of getting any significant hunter support. When I look at our advocacy groups and the way hunters nit-pick them to death, this little controversy really comes as no surprise at all. Why should it? It is staffed, run and comprised of hunters. As far as I am concerned, neither of these organizations or any of their spawned off wannabes need to exist anyway. Measuring hunting success by the numbers is a foolish waste of time and effort anyway. But all this does highlight the sorry state of hunters to come to agreements on anything at all. I wonder if the anti-hunter organizations have all this in-fighting and nit-picking nonsense going on all the time?

Yeah, it reminds me of a typical view from a treestand. I realize that's not the purpose of the elevated camera location, but it does give a unique wild game viewpoint from a hunting perspective.

I'm still trying to figure out why hunters seem to feel that the only way to introduce new people to hunting has to be some special weekend hunt. Is there something wrong with volunteering to take a kid hunting during the regular season so they can get the whole experience of what hunting is all about? Is there something wonderful about introducing a kid to hunting without the rest of their family and friends participating? Is there something wrong with introducing them to a traditional hunt camp, during a traditional hunting season, with the traditional hunting environment? Are we really so darn busy that we cannot use part of our regular hunting season to introduce youngsters to the sport? It sounds like if we don't get this introduction out of the way before the season really starts that it simply is not going to get done at all. Honestly, it really doesn't hurt to take a kid hunting while you are trying to harvest your deer.

Getting some pictures (all of the same fawn)

What is interesting about that photo is the relative length of the fawns legs vs. the doe's. Their legs are both about the same size. It appears that a fawns legs grow at a much faster rate than the rest of their body. Probably nature's way of giving them an adequate stride for escape from predators.

Gee, now I feel like I should apologize for watching TV .... lol. Actually, I don't watch these kinds of shows, believing everything I see is totally unaffected by the cameras being in their face all the time. I'm sure that the televising influences some of what goes on. However, much of what they bring up, and describe, seems to be real in terms of the kinds of challenges one might encounter when living that kind of lifestyle. For example, that guy that flys into his trapline, I'm sure really does have some concerns flying around in the wilderness at that time of year. And yes, his life really does depend on that airplane functioning in stressed out ugly winter weather. I'm sure that the necessary preparations for winter are pretty factual too. Also, the concerns about bears is likely a real concern in those locations. Much of the issues brought up on those programs are likely potential scenarios that truly are part of that lifestyle. But then, I have always had an interest in those kinds of people that have the independence and courage to head off into the wilds in a real fashion. Some like the guy in North Carolina may not get as deep as others, but many of the challenges are still there in one form or another. But in general, I would imagine that the depictions of that kind of life are pretty much on target. By the way, I did mis-speak when I said it was on the National Geographic channel. It is in fact on the History Channel.

Anybody watching this program on the National Geographics channel? I saw the first one the other night, and tried to picture myself living that lifestyle. I know there was a time in my younger days when I thought about it. There definitely are pros and cons. It's kind of like "Swamp people" only it has to do with some guys who have crawled into the wilderness to make their lives off the grid by hunting, fishing and trapping to survive. It's quite interesting when you consider the penalties for failure .... lol. In my opinion, so far they have done a pretty good job of showing that lifestyle.

How about the element of competition? It always seems that it is me against the prey. We have a bit of a competition going with a winner and a loser. As the saying goes, "Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you".....lol. That's competition.

Anybody come across any gypsy moth caterpillars, or tent caterpillars or japanese beetles yet? I thought by this time last year I was spraying fruit trees for them already because they were already out. Unfortunately, I didn't write anything down about when they came out, so I don't know whether they really should be out by now. I'm really worried, because of the mild winter. Also, the apple trees are getting tall enough so my sprayer won't reach the tops of the trees anymore. On the other hand, if they are already out in other parts of the state and we don't have them yet, maybe I can breath a sigh of relief (wishful thinking ..... lol). The poor things have taken a beating over the last few years, and I already lost two cherry trees, 2 apricot trees, and a couple peach trees to the critters. The japanese beetles have been thick for more than 3 years in a row.

I never heard of a tree that would not support itself from its own weight, especially ones that are 5 years old. Are you sure that they are not victims of that late snowstorm that we had this year that dropped a significant amount of heavy, wet, sloppy-gloppy snow. I had a blue spruce in the front yard that was very healthy and had a trunk that was about 7" in diameter that got really screwed up with that storm. about 4' up the trunk, it actually took a right hand turn and looked like a hockey stick. The goofyest thing I have ever seen. It wasn't broke at least not outside the bark where you could see it. But it just took a sharp bend and never straightened back up. I had to cut it down. Perhaps this is something that happened to the bent trees you are seeing. They may very well need a bit of persuading and staking to straighten them up again. It sure wouldn't hurt. One thing I would caution about is to be sure you don't drive any support in too close to the roots. That could wind up doing more harm than good. Also if you have to tie something to the tree (like guy-wires), make sure you put something smooth and soft between the rope and the bark of the tree. I have used sections of old garden hose for this purpose. Otherwise, the wind whipping thetree around over the year will cause a sawing kind of action that will damage the bark.

So far, I guess most of the replies play some part in my enjoyment of hunting, but for me there are some other elements that have made hunting a huge part of my life. There is a huge traditional aspect that hooks into history and our American culture (yes, we Americans do have a culture). I generally feel a bit of a link to all that, and actually it was some books about mountain men and early pioneers and their hunting activities that first interested me in hunting, fishing, trapping and all things that involve nature. Yeah, it sounds a bit hokey, but when I am out hunting, there is always those thoughts of ancestors basically doing the same thing, perhaps for different reasons, but it is a cultural thing that we all share with early Americans and even their predecessors. Also, I have to believe that there is a connection with our basic place in the food chain and ecosystem as a predator. We may not want to call ourselves predators, but the truth is that we as a species have always taken on the role and existance of a predator, and it may very well be a more basic genetic reason for our attraction to hunting. Quite possibly it is built into our DNA. Perhaps it is more natural and honest to acknowledge that link than those that try to bury it and pretend that we have evolved beyond such things. Also, there is some element of independance built into the activity. Anything that demonstrates an ability to fend for ourselves as individuals has some kind of appeal for me. It's like gardening. I wouldn't starve if I didn't put in a garden, and I wouldn't starve if I didn't hunt. But the fact that I can provide for myself to one extent or another does add a feeling of self-reliance. The honing of these kinds of survival skills does help establish some level of independance. So perhaps there are some more deeper reasons why we hunt than just hanging out in the woods. maybe it's also a lot of stuff about how we are built and designed.

I think that's pretty much what I said.

I truly love the summer. With all the activities of fishing, camping, hiking, vacationing, outdoor photography, yard and gardening activities, and a million other things that there are to do, I hate to see it all come to an end. I'm the sort that has a pretty ordered life, and have taken each season of the year as offering certain things that need to be taken advantage of at a specific time of year. Generally, the early part of October still finds me heavily engaged in summer activities, as well as taking care of some last minute scouting and ironing out any bow shooting difficulties. Add to all that the necessity of getting summer equipment winterized and put away and it turns out to be the most busy time of the year. I'm not sure I am ready to chop 2 weeks off of that part of the year to actually begin hunting.

I don't think it really comes down to a question of survival .... lol. I remember one bow season when the temperature flashed up into the 80's. Man, that just didn't seem right. I know guys down south handle that as simply normal, but I don't start feeling it's really hunting season until we have had a few frosts. Just the way it has always been I guess, and what I have become conditioned to expect hunting conditions should be like. Sweat running in my eyes and bugs flying into my ears is not really a good time. In fact, I really don't get into things until the leaves start falling. But then as I said, that is just my perspective.

I'm not sure how much of that additional time I will actually be using for bow season. I am thinking of years past where that period of time is generally still super hot and full of bugs. Also with the weather still great for fishing, camping, and other summer kinds of activities, I most likely will not have finished with all of those things. I guess I will try it out and see how it all fits in with the rest of my life. But I have some doubts. I also wonder how those warmer weeks will be used by others. I don't usually have my head wrapped around hunting when the sweat is trickling down my back and the bugs are banging into my eyes .... lol.

Actually there is a section in the site that is a "discussion on the merits of aluminum vs. carbon arrows".