Doc

Actually there is a section in the site that is a "discussion on the merits of aluminum vs. carbon arrows".

Great job. What we need now is some pictures looking out the shooting holes so we can see what you will be seeing. Another picture from a ways back so we can see the whole thing in it's setting.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but if deer hunting were easy, I wouldn't be interested at all in it. Honestly, if someone came up with some super weapon, or super tactic that hacked the challenge out of it all, I would take up something else. While everyone is frantically searching for that "edge", I love the challenge (and often the frustration) of limitations. The rewards are so much more worthwhile. That's why guaranteed or guided hunts, and game preserve hunts have absolutely no appeal for me. If I could develop a property that was highly managed for large quantities of trophy bucks, all the interest in hunting would disappear. So, I have gotten plenty of deer over the years, but I am not the guy who gets his buck every year ....... and that's the way I like it. I'll bet there are other people who have the same idea of hunting, and probably quite a few that take that idea a lot farther than I do.

You're not alone. I have a lifetime supply of aluminum arrows that still kill deer just as dead as carbon. I'm not changing.

It took me 7 years to get my first bow-killed deer. Back then the population was in short supply, and the archery equipment that we used was truly primitive (not by choice either .... lol). The Monday morning get-togethers at work always had conversations about the doe that someone saw off in the distance, or the one that got away, or the shot that they almost got, but it was a rare thing when someone had a story about actually getting one. A lot of us took quite a few years to start getting deer with a bow. Nobody got discouraged or dropped out because of it. We just assumed that the next time out would be the charm .... lol. When someone did finally connect, it was a true massive sense of achievement. It was a unique and rare event that caught a whole lot of attention. We all understood that that would be the pay-off eventually, and that kept us going. Things have really changed. Now when someone doesn't connect each year we wonder what went wrong .... ha-ha. We don't care about the doe that someone saw, or the missed shot. The first question asked is "what did it score?".

Saw another fawn yesterday down in the driveway. Didn't see the doe, but I'm sure she wasn't too far away.

I was a bit disappointed to see those general (rule of thumb) methods of establishing draw length. Things such as height charts and arm-span /2 are pretty bogus when you are laying out the kind of cash that bows and arrows go for these days. I really hope that no one is using those methods of determining draw length. As far as I'm concerned, there is only one way to measure draw length and that is with a real bow drawn to a proper anchor and the use of a measuring arrow, or some kind of marker.

wooly- Any thoughts on cause of death? Relative to your question, Yes, I have seen a doe with one fawn crossing the road in front of us.

I saw my first fawn of the year yesterday.

I do believe that a well run trapline is the best way to make them disappear.

Sometimes I have to wonder if people have a realistic idea of the destructive power of bows and arrows. I think they equate the modern archery equipment with the little toy bows with suction cup tipped arrows. Really ... just because it doesn't go boom or kill by massive shock does not make it a toy. When I see some of these target set-up in the suburbs (dead flat yards with no backstops at all), I can only think these people have absolutely no respect for the killing power of these weapons.

Fees vary all over the place. We have one club that charges $35 for general membership plus $25 for range use total=$60 Another club has a one time "membership initiation fee" of $149. Plus a one time $12 certification fee. Subsequent years they charge $126 annually for general membership and $41 range fees. $167 total annual outlay. That's a pretty amazing amount to be paying just to blow up some ammo. I attended an NFAA archery competition there and had a good look around. It is a very deluxe operation! So the point is that you will get different answers on whether these clubs are worth it or not depending on the club and what they charge and what your tolerance level for spending is.

Sure enough that phrase about "ignorance of the law is no excuse" sounds real good and as long as you are not too fussy about reality. The reality is that laws have been added to about as quickly as legislators can do it, and on any given day, you can be assured that you have most likely broken some laws without even knowing it, or without even having any chance at ever knowing it until somebody of authority happens to observe you doing it. It's a sad situation, but ignorance of the law is a very real excuse. It just is not an excuse that will get you out of legal punishment. So sure, you've got people (non-deer hunters) who could buy and use this stuff with no chance in hell of being told that it's illegal until the law comes knocking on the door. As long as its out on the shelves and on display and offered openly for sale, why would anyone question it? Since these stores have a legal loophole regarding these kinds of sales, it probably is a good time to try to have a heart-to-heart talk with store managers and let them know that sportsmen and women are not supporting this practice or the B.S. excuses that they use for pushing those products.

One thing I have noticed is that some of the rod and gun clubs can get very pricey (and I mean in a real big way). I have belonged to archery clubs that were real reasonable, and most operated on a shoestring, but facilties were adequate to host some great tournaments and maintain full participation in affiliated leagues. However, most of the overall rod and gun type of clubs seem to get a bit involved with heavy membership fees (I'm not sure why). At least that has been the experience locally. Do you get your money's worth out of them? Depends on what money is worth to you .... lol. In my case I tend to watch the pennys a bit closer than most. That's a nice way of saying I'm cheap. On the other hand, if you have no access to shooting facilities of your own, what choice do you have?

The problem is that people tend to give a quick glance at the game syllabus, if they even open it up at all. So unless they have heard through the grapevine or some other incidental source that baiting/feeding is illegal, they might make the incorrect assumption that simply because the product is sold locally that the practice is alright. Yeah, I know ..... you are supposed to know and understand all game laws, but I have an old copy of the official game law books, and I assure you that all game law is not in that little comic book that comes with your license. Furthermore, the interpretation of fish and game laws can vary widely depending on how many different ECOs or judges you ask (and those are the people that are supposed to be experts on the laws). So unfortunately, having these stores selling these illegal products does lend some confusion about the law. I would have no problem with stores selling this kind of product to deer farmers, etc. as long as proof of that kind of business were needed for purchase. As far as the enforcement of this particular law is concerned, lets not forget that the enforcement part of the DEC has been starved out, like the rest of the department. So don't be looking for every tip to be immediately acted upon. Those people are spread pretty thin these days.

I stopped into Gander Mountain in Henrietta yesterday ( I can't imagine why .... lol), and I saw quite an array of products that are clearly illegal for possession in NYS regarding anti-baiting laws. There was something that clearly looked like a salt block, and indeed listed salt as a major ingredient. And then there was the mineral items that basically were camoflaged to look like a rock. And then there were other supplies for feeders (clearly marked as such). What the heck is going on there? They seem to have a problem stocking legitimate hunting products and supplies, but have no shortage of things that are illegal to use in hunting applications. Yes, I'm sure there is some sort of legal loopholes that allow them to sell these things. What I have heard is that they carry them for use in other states ....... yeah .... right. Frankly, regardless of what anyone feels about baiting, I would think there might be some sort of outrage about an outdoor store trying to thwart NYS game laws. I was kind of kicking myself all the way home for not digging out the store manager and giving him/her some grief for the policy of selling illegal products.

I had a visitor in the yard yesterday morning about 10:00. Sorry about the crappy photo. I took it through a window, and the screen was down.

This kind of ties in well to the thread about reducing the legal shooting distance of a bow from a building. Those that are convinced that such accidents can't occur should take note.

Sounds like the Bushnell might be more versatile in that it can do both tasks. How do they compare in cost?

My first vehicle was a 1954 ford. That one was a fixer-upper and never made it to the road. Next came a 1952 Ford .... a Texas car that was full of dry-rot on every rubber part, but had no rust. That one lasted a while. Then came an old 1959 Cadillac. Nice comfy car but started going downhill fast with expensive repairs. I remember going down the expressway while the air inside was turning blue from the exhaust leaking from the just ahead of the muffler. Finally in 1965, I bought my first brand new car ..... a Plymouth Valiant. That ran forever. Most of my car choices were economy cars with a couple of ego boosters along the way like my 340 Duster that I could hardly keep on the road in the winter time because of the touchy accelerator and those nasty wide ovals which were like skis that didn't really know which way to go. Then there was a 1968 barracuda that I totalled before I got a whole lot of miles on it. A couple of pick-up trucks found their way into my driveway. Then finally the little tiny high mileage cars. Every darn one of those cars were exciting for at least the first bit of time while I had them. I just know that what I felt everytime a different car came into my life is just like what Robinson is feeling. It's always great.

I understand that there are some who choose to focus on peripheral issues regarding this guy. I try not to get all tangled up in those things and rather focus on how I can use a resource in this battle for gun rights and hunting issues. I see nothing useful in crucifying those that speak out for those issues that are important to me. As I said there is nothing honorable or useful or even sensible in shooting our own troops and then somehow expecting to win the war.

Looks like beaver work to me.

Man! Your first car. I remember that feeling. Nothing like it! Independance at last!!!! Have fun with it and drive careful.

Look, If you want to go about the business of negotiating with some other (yet to be named) person with an adequate platform to reach both hunters and non-hunters, to put forth the pro-gun and pro-hunting message, have at it ........ and let us know how that works out for you. Last time I looked there were no takers for that activity. Or maybe you think we can counter the massive wall of celebrity antis out there with no rebuttal at all or perhaps a bunch of hunters politely discussing the issues among themselves in elegant politically correct language. Let me change a few words in the last line of your reply: "Having someone to deliver the message does matter!" And as we kill off messengers one by one, finding someone to do that is becoming the rocket science part. Wake up .... its a war out there and it's never a good idea to be shooting our own troops.

We probably all have had adventures with electric fences. One that I will remember forever is the time I decided to cross the neighbors electric fence by holding it down with a forked stick while stepping over it. ......Bad idea! Just after I got one leg over, the stick slipped leaving me riding this electric fence. That was when I learned that a person can propel themselves vertically by only using their toes. Somehow, I really did jump up in the air and off the fence without even bending my knees.