Doc

But they are already here aren't they? It's been that way for a long time.

Yes, you have to wonder why a company like Parker would waste all that R&D money and marketing cash on something that has no value.

Lol.... I never said that anybody has to agree with it . It's just reassuring to know that a few people actually understand what I was trying to say without going all crazy on me. Relative to the enforcement, I admit that the DEC probably doesn't need more on their plate right now. However this is where someone smarter than me would have to work out the details. I would never say that it can't be done. As far as firearms during the bow season, I must point out that we already have that with concurrent bow seasons, small game seasons, and turkey seasons. I think the scattered few extremely disabled people that would be added would be the proverbial "drop in the bucket". I would visualize the people allowed to use a handguns in bow season would be only those severely handicapped people who could use no other kind of weapon (Note: I'm starting to use the term "handgun" or "pistols" now because I am not sure that long-guns would actually be useful for those disabled to that extent). I think those numbers who are disabled to that extreme extent and coincidentally also want to hunt would be extremely insignificant numbers as compared to those that are already out there with firearms. This is a rather new thought that has occurred to me with all the talk of disabled hunters, and perhaps I have not thought of all the details and difficulties involved. However, I don't think it is a notion that should be discounted just out of hand without a bit of consideration. Anyway, it's just a thought that I figured I would throw out there since the bill in the original post seemed like a limited half-way, almost insincere, measure that left out a whole category of disabled folks in a truly practical sense. My belief is that if we are really serious about doing something for the disabled, it probably is not right to be thinking only in terms of the mildly disabled.

This thread is not about including anything in bow season for all hunters. At least that is not the way that I read that bill in the original post. My comments are limited to only those individuals who need assistance to participate in hunting. My thoughts are that it would be the right thing to do, and that the actual number of individuals involved would be relatively insignificant and completely transparent to other hunters and bow season harvest results. There is also an assumption that a system could be devised and enforced to eliminate fraud (important caveat). My opposition to the inclusion of anything other than a bow in bow seasons for able-bodied hunters remains unchanged. Doc

I've got to admit that I have grown attachments to the land. I hunt where I grew up and to me, the land, the surroundings and the hunting are all inter-linked. Every foot of that acreage has memories of family and friends that hunted there. For a while, I experimented with hunting in other places, but the experience isn't quite the same. For one thing, every place that I tried to hunt years ago had some house spring up or some posted signs, or some other interference that rendered all my knowledge there instantly unuseable. I finally got tired of that game and came back to the roots of my hunting where I know the land use is stable. I also have to admit that I really don't miss that getting up in the wee hours of the morning so I can spend an hour or two on the road to get where I want to hunt. I own acreage, and live next to 600+ acres of public land. So I have developed the philosophy that I will hunt the herd as I find it, scarce or plenty. If they are scarce, I look at it as an extra challenge. If the deer are plentiful, that's good news too. And even when I am not successful because the numbers are a bit low, I am still spending some quality time surrounded by a woods that reminds me of hundreds of hunts that span my entire lifetime, no matter what part of it I'm in. Another benefit of that kind of intense familiarity with your hunting area is that you really do understand what the herd condition and numbers are on that particular bunch of acres. Others may try to tell you about what's going on across the state, but no one is going to credibly tell you about what things are like where you are hunting when you have 5 or 6 decades of experience there day in and day out. I'm not sure that explains why I and perhaps others are reluctant to chase the big herds. I suppose others have their own personal reasons for hunting where they do. I also suppose that's probably up to them and I wouldn't try to tell them they are wrong. Lot's of deer ..... darn few deer, that is not always the sole criteria for picking a spot to hunt. Not an easy concept for everyone to understand, but for some of us that's just the way it is.

OK, that sounds more like it. So that was a local ordinance. That was a long time ago, and the details escaped me. However, I guess my memory isn't completely shot .... just partly ... ;D . Thanks for the info. I was already resigned to the fact that I must have simply imagined the whole thing .... lol.

Just another cost of doing business, right?

I get the feeling that these hunter-heroes are under tremendous pressure to produce, and when laws get in the way ....... no problem ..... ignore them. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush, but the list of law-breaking TV personalities, and magazine writers, and others that make their living off of killing critters is getting quite long now. Anybody want their job? Better think twice about that.

Oh my gosh, I woke up the troll ...... ;D .............speaking of "totally ridiculous"

For bonafide, certified, disabled hunters (registered and documented in any way that makes everyone confortable) that require that level of assistance only ...... I believe you really are starting to get it or at least pieces of it. Man that was a struggle for such a simple concept.

Well now I am really confused. I thought the article was back in the 80's and was about a lady up in the Adirondacks. It was a pretty similar story though. It could be that it was a different situation, but more likely, time has just scrambled up the time and location on me....Lol. Thanks for finding that article.

I am not going to engage in pro crossbow/anti crossbow discussion. We have a jillion pages of that where just about anything that can be said on the subject has been said. It's simple enough to go back and review that whole discussion and perhaps that will answer some of your confusion about one side of the argument or the other. This is a whole different topic about a bill to help disabled hunters participate in the early bow season (or at least some of them). To me it seems like a pretty half-hearted attempt which I would rather see expanded to a point where it is actually effective and meaningful. That is what I have been discussing here and which most likely has run it's course as far as I'm concerned.

No I don't think that the stock is something new, but it sure seems to be drawing some very current attention of the crossbow engineering staffs. They seem to be just now discovering how much mechanism that can be packaged in that space. I sure do feel a lot better now with all your assurances that these advances will be shot down by regulations and laws. I wish we had a little better record of that actually happening in the past. like I say, time will tell.

I've got no idea why I ever even tried something that sounds so gross, but I suppose it isn't much different than eating an egg salad sandwich. Besides I like egs just about anyway they can be fixed. So try it out. You just might like it .................Or maybe it'll make you barf ;D

Now see there you go getting all angry again. A load of crap?? . Well like I said before, for some this law is more about advancing crossbows than trying to do anything substantive to help the disabled. So I guess you know where I stand, and I know where you stand on that issue. I don't really have anything to add.

Hey, maybe yes ... maybe no. It kind of puts me in mind of that full auto crossbow that that guy came up with. There seems to be no end to what they can do now that they have a stock to work off of. At least the crossbow companies will be keeping the watchdogs busy from now on trying to keep up with a whole new platform of technological advances and there will be plenty of work available for the crossbow lobbyists. I remember when the first compounds were marketed and legalized. Nobody really took them too seriously either. That Allen compound looked like a real joke and wasn't really all that much better than a good recurve. Laws didn't slow down their technological growth very much over the years did they? Well anyway, we'll see how it all works out over the long haul . It's a bit early to make any predictions yet, but the opportunities are certainly there as demonstrated by this particular unit.

See there ya go again ..... trying to be a mind reader . And it doesn't surprise me that for you it is all about the crossbow and the heck with doing what's right for the disabled. That much is consistant. But I guess I've made my position as clear as I can, and if some are in favor of a "window dressing" style law for some of the disabled, then so be it. Nothing I can do about that. One last point though relative to your crossbow vs. gun comment. I have lifted and held and fired a handgun with one hand, and I'll guarantee that it is a whole lot easier than shooting a crossbow with one hand and I didn't have to shoulder anything.

Well, you did all you can do. You're just going to have to shoot 'em .....

There is no question that deer populations move up and down, primarily as a result of antlerless permit allocations. I have seen both extremes here in our area. So when someone tells me that they have a shortage of deer or an overpopulation, I have no problem believing them. Lol ..... actually it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for me to contradict them anyway since I don't hunt every locality across the state. But like I say, I have seen the cycles that deer populations go through for close to 50 years, and I have seen the huge ridiculous deer yards over by Honeoye Lake and I have seen years of extreme scarcity so I know that at certain times, both extremes can happen.

I thought I remembered reading about some old "granny-type" that was in big trouble with the DEC for feeding deer somewhere up in the Adirondacks way back in the mid or late 80's. Her feeding was basically causing a yarding situation. She was told repeatedly to stop, and didn't. How it ever turned out I never did hear. However, if I was asked to prove it, I doubt that I could ever find any reference to that article now.

That ham or bologna sounds like a good addition. I understand your concern about making your stand smell like a delicatessen, but I just can't help myself. ;D

I'll tell ya, having something good to munch on can add a few hours to my stand. It's just a great place to eat and a great way to bring yourself back to life. I add to that a cup of coffee out of the thermos every half hour or so, and I'm wide awake and ready for more stand time.

I guess what I'm not seeing responded to is the reasoning that says that we care about the disabled, but only just "this much" and only these certain categories of disabilities. I'm still trying to make some sense of that. It's not a point of view discrepancy but rather an inconsistancy of purpose that I just can't seem to understand.

New Parker Concorde Crossbow <blockquote> Here is the official press release from Parker!!! FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE PARKER REDEFINES MODERN CROSSBOW DESIGN WITH THE LAUNCH OF THE CONCORDE – THE FIRST EVER “AUTO-COCKING” CROSSBOW. MINT SPRING, VA. December 10th, 2010 …. Parker Bows does it again with the launch of another industry first: the Parker Concorde Crossbow with the patented Quick Draw System - the first ever automatic cocking crossbow. The Concorde redefines the modern hunting crossbow with push-button ease of operation and 300+ feet per second performance. At the heart of the Concorde is Parker’s patented Quick Draw System, which features a CO2 powered internal cocking mechanism. The Quick Draw System is operated by simply pressing a button that is recessed into the rear of the butt stock. By pressing the button, the Concorde automatically draws the string into the fully-cocked position. It really is that easy. Plus, it cocks the crossbow in approximately two (2) seconds and is whisper quiet in its operation. The CO2 is supplied via a standard, refillable 9 ounce CO2 bottle. A full bottle can cock the Concorde approximately 50 times. In addition to cocking the Concorde, the Quick Draw System also allows you to quickly and easily “Un-Cock” the crossbow with the same push of a button. The Concorde also features Parker’s 100% metal G2 Trigger which is 100% Made in USA and is backed by Parker’s 100% Lifetime warranty. The Concorde will be debuted at the 2011 Archery Trade Association Show in Indianapolis. The Concorde is the future. To see the Concorde on video and get all of the technical data, check out the Parker website next week. Visit www.parkerbows.com/Concorde Parker Concorde with Quick Draw System The First Ever “Auto-Cocking” Crossbow : ..... And so it begins. </blockquote>

If you take the time to actually read the replies you will see that some are definitely not getting the point.