Doc

It's a shot where the bullet/slug is heading for the heart via the poop-chute.....lol. This guy made that shot almost perfect, and all the bleeding was internal, and almost no meat lost at all (That's a pretty rare result for that kind of shot). It's one of those shots that guys get tempted into when "jump-shooting" deer. Not much excuse for that kind of shot, but some guys just don't care.

First of all, as has already been stated, enforcement would be just about impossible to achieve. One thing we don't need is more laws on the books that nobody is willing or able to enforce. I haven't participated in a drive in decades simply because I don't see hunting as a "team sport", but I still know people who get involved in drives, and I don't really have any problem with that. It is a very productive way of hunting. Back when I did get involved with an occasional drive, we used to have a pile of rules that kept the activity safe. There is nothing that says that drives have to be unsafe. Doc

I've seen it. One time I heard a shot in the thicket at the base of a small skinny field. Seconds later, 5 deer came running out of the thicket. Four of them ran straight across the field and up the hill. The 5th one came out and circled back into the thicket. In a few minutes, I saw a guy come out just into the edge of the field. He looked left then right and turned around and was back on the thicket. He did all that so fast, I never had a chance to get his attention or even react at all. I was surprised to hear a car door slamming a few minutes later and a car started up and took off. I kind of sat there in a bit of a state of shock not believing what I just saw. Yeah, you guessed it. When I walked down to the other end of the field, sure enough when the deer turned and went back into the thicket, that was her last bound. She laid right there in plain sight, not 50 yards from where the guy was standing. There was no blood. The deer was killed with a Texas heart shot with absolutely no meat destroyed. Fortunately, I had a permit. So I know there are people who assume they missed if the deer doesn't fall dead right on the spot. If I hadn't have been sitting at the other end of the field that deer would have been wasted. It is possible that this buck ran into the same kind of guy. Deer didn't go right down so he must have missed. >

I'm thinking this is the best advice you are going to get. That is exactly what I would do.

Not only that but with a hunting partner, you are a bit more free to extend your hunt farther back in because you know you got some help in dragging a deer out. My Brother-in-law from Canada used to come down for large chunks of both the bow season and the gun season. We used to really get back in deep. We each kind of encouraged each other to get farther into places where a lot of other hunters wouldn't go. We knew that there were two of us to drag out whatever was killed. However, he got transferred to Thunder Bay and that drive is not as convenient as it was from St. Catherines. So I have been hunting on my own. I still dig myself back in quite a ways, but nothing like we used to and I still have to constantly be aware just how far of a drag I am setting myself up for.

Yes, I would like to pretend that it was all my idea, but the truth is that all this now takes place at the insistance of the wife. Amazingly enough the landmarks and location names that I refer to are places she is familiar with from back in the days when we both ran a trapline all over the hill and the valley. She knows exactly where all these places are that I refer to on the map. Of course there is nothing saying that I won't be off tracking a deer or if the wind is all wrong, I may make a last minute decision to move. But most of the time that doesn't happen, and if it does I have the cell phone there to call and advise of my change of plans.

Well, the article didn't go into any detail regarding what the county's problem was with that particular waste product. All they said was that they approved a resolution which stipulates that the Ontario County landfill will not accept waste products from hydraulic fracturing without written permission from the County. Also, "The Ontario County Board of Supervisors overwhelmingly backed a measure to ban the practice of hydro-fracking on property owned by the County". I assume that to mean county parks, and other County real estate holdings. There was also some discussion about drafting model resolutions for towns and villages interested in passing their own hydrofracking regulations. They also talked about compensation agreements for local road use. So, there was no description of what the waste is or any 3rd parties that might be involved in bringing it to the landfill. But it does look like the County and other municipalities within the county are gearing up to put some protections in place. Whether they know what they are doing or not, I can't say. However from past issues like windfarm regulations, they did do a proper job of investigating that whole industry and most of those regulations were done in conjunction with other county governments, so they had a fair amount of resources involved in their studies. I assume the same kinds of investigations will be or have been done regarding the hydrofracking process.

Interesting. So I'm going to have to go back and re-read the newpaper article and see just what it was that the landfill was not going to accept from the gas well drilling operations. It sounds like if this stuff is actually put through waste water treatment plants, the landfill administrators would have one heck of a time keeping only the gas well's portion of the treated sludge out of the landfill.....lol. So, I've got to go back and see exactly what they were talking about.

We had this conversation on the old forum and of course I didn't keep copies of any of it. But somebody came up with some real data on these ratings and house fire durations and intensities and all that stuff. Of course I don't remember any of it, but I suspect that somewhere on the net there is more stuff on what makes an adequate safe. I understand the money aspect of it all. I really haven't bought a gun safe yet because of the cost and also, foolishly, I never put it on my list of priorities. I will be following this thread pretty close to see if I can fix that. Doc

Why would anyone want to do this ? For a quick 2nd shot ? Curious Ha-ha .... It's not something I would like to do unless I had a pack-mule to help me out with the weight. However, a lot has been made about the muzzleloader being a "handicapped" weapon because you are limited to one shot with seldom an opportunity for a follow-up shot if needed. I can just hear the wheels turning as people try to figure out some way of cheating that little restriction. You just know that as soon as a limit is put on something in hunting, there will be people looking to eliminate that limit by hook or by crook. That's why I was wondering about a multiple barrel muzzleloader. That's kind of a natural way for the mind to work. Paulie probably was watching the same program I saw just the other day (Last of the Mohicans) where the hero was running through the woods shooting indians with a muzzleloader in each hand. It made for good movie scenes....lol. Doc

I don't understand, if they re-capture and re-use 100% of the water used in the process, why is Canada and PA exporting frac solution to NY wastewater treatment plants? It seems that a wastewater treatment plant is a strange place to be treating solutions that have toxic chemicals added. After all, this isn't exactly sewage that we are talking about. Are these toxic chemicals something that settles out or is somehow extracted from the water? If so, where does that stuff go? Or do they perhaps have a procedure for completely isolating and re-using those chemicals. I'm no expert on the subject, but that doesn't sound exactly like a wastewater treatment function. I haven't really been able to find much that talks about final disposal. Also, Doewhacker brings up another disposal question. I'm sure that on site spills are not unheard of. Where does that chemical soup go to be disposed of? Apparently not at the Ontario County landfill.....lol. Doc

Well, it's a bit late for advice, but but like WNYBuckhunter said, it might have been a good idea to back-track him when he left you the first picture to see where he came from. Or go the other way to find out where he goes. I suppose it probably would be a good idea to do that anyway and maybe learn something for next year. A little leg-work this year may give you a heck of a headstart on him next year. Doc

If you look at the tracks in the snow in just about any field you can see that deer movement at night is super heavy the last couple of days. The tracks in my front yard look like a stampede of deer came through. Is that all due to lunar conditions? ...... I don't know. Doc

Hunting alone is something that I have thought quite a bit about in recent years. I am of the age, and have some health history where you kind of start thinking about those things. I haven't come up with any miracle thoughts on the subject other than that I keep a fully-charged cell phone on me everytime I go out. We have a tower across the valley so I do have a line of communication back to civilization. Safety-wise, that's not a real good substitute for having someone along, but I do prefer hunting alone and if something should happen that I can't use the phone ....... oh well. I can't be in too bad a shape. I did a fairly lengthy drag a couple times this year, and I'm still alive .... lol. ;D However, young or old, alone or not, I do recommend carrying a phone. There may be times when cell service is not available where you are, but most of the time, it is available to get assistance if you should need it. Another thing I do is, point out to my wife on an aerial photo exactly where I expect to be going if I am going on stand, or I outline my route if I am going to be still-hunting. I don't always stick to my original choices, but if the wind up on the hill is the same as predicted, I usually have those sorts of things pre-planned. No, you can't operate in complete safety and have every base covered, but there are a few things you can do that might help if you find yourself in a bad situation. If those things don't work, then I guess you're probably going to have a bad day . Doc

Apparently none of the hydro-fracking waste will be accepted by the Ontario County Landfill according to a newspaper article last night. So does anyone know just where that stuff is expected to be disposed of?

How about an over and under (2-shot) muzzleloader? Anybody invented such a thing yet? Would it be legal? Would it be practical? Doc

The price looks good! I am always a bit confused about fire ratings as far as just what is adequate. When they say they are 30 minute rated, What temperature are they assuming? What contents are they assuming are in there, just guns, or does that include papers, ammo, etc.? And then how do you know 30 minutes is adequate? Is that the duration of an average house fire? I've never ran into any place that clarifies these questions. So these might be pretty good deals, but maybe not if you aren't confident about what the specs mean and whether or not they are adequate. Doc

Just got to keep it going, don't you ...... lol.

The thread was about an urban buck and I thought it was appropriate to pass on some observations about urban herds and ask some questions. I expected that the questions would be answered and the thread would move on. What I did not expect was some psycho reaction from a guy that thinks anyone asking such questions should be shouted down with insults. The suggestion to move that part of the discussion to a separate topic has been made already and I already said that I would rather just drop the whole subject because there is one here who cannot discuss such things rationally. I am still trying to do that, no thanks to you ..... . Doc

I can't say that I am glad that it's over, but I am ready for it to be over. I don't think there is anything wrong with having diversified interests. Hunting will still be in my occasional thoughts and a lot of my winter and summer activities are related to hunting, and I certainly love discussing hunting and related subjects. But I never do lose sight of the fact that there is a lot more to life than just hunting. And when the season is officially over, I have no problem putting it away and changing focus to other things. In fact I put deer hunting away the other day and never felt a drop of remorse. Doc

Lol ..... Hunters are a passionate bunch of people. They also tend to be very opinionated too. Add those two things together, and you get some fire-breathing, flame driven, posts. Usually that happens when facts and knowledge get trumped by emotion. It's too bad, but I think we all get into that mode occasionally. I know ...... That's an ignorant, selfish, lazy, unthankful, thing to say, but ........ Doc

Well, I think the southern zone deer seasons are also fine the way they are. Season lengths and locations are probably right at the optimum right now. That's probably why no one who makes those kinds of decisions is seriously proposing any changes at this time. I know, we all think we have a better idea and for all kinds of different reasons. Somebody earlier had it right ..... the only way shorter seasons will have any significant impact on harvests is when more and more hunters quit in disgust over being charged more and getting less. Doc

Oh so you don't like the words I used to phrase the questions. Well, that certainly makes the difference. Now I understand why you lost control of all civility and acted like a jerk..... : .

The question that always comes to my mind is, how do they know that that all the human scent and other signs of human presence is not a threat in the yard, but get withing 100 yards of them out in the woods and that same scent will send them running away, snorting, and in a panic. Doc

Actually, that is incorrect. Crossbows are illegal for hunting (soon to change) but they are legal to sell, buy, own, and shoot in NYS.