Doc

Well, rather than repeat it all, just read my reply to Culver. A lot of it is repeated stuff that nobody seems to want to address. I think you will see that I do understand exactly what you are saying. Basically you are saying and have been saying that if the disabled issue doesn't involve a crossbow, the heck with those that can't work within that new limit. I simply don't agree with that half-way measure. As far as Sits is concerned ..... Lol, what can I say. He is kind of irrelevant to this discussion and non existant in any other topics. The only time he comes out of the woodwork is when there is a crossbow topic.... pretty much a "johnny one-note" element of back-ground noise that I have learned to ignore. :

Well now I am confused. "Added advantages" of a crossbow to compensate for disabilities .... OK. "Added advantages" of a gun to compensate for disabilities .... Not OK. Even though there may be some who cannot use a crossbow, but could participate if they were allowed to use something like a handgun. If they're just a little disabled, they can use a crossbow. If they are a lot disabled, the heck with them. Sorry Charlie, nothing we can do for you. You can't use a crossbow, you're out of luck. Just as they are being basically told they are out of luck if they can't use a bow now, we are just going to do a little shoe-shuffle and make the crossbow the new limit. When it is all done we all pat ourselves on the back and tell each other how wonderful we are while we turn our backs on those that can't participate because they can't master the one armed use of a crossbow, or those that have excruciating back, shoulder, arm or whatever, pain when they try to shoulder a crossbow. I don't know, it all seems a bit arbitrary and half-hearted to me and still winds up exclusionary. Look, for those that have an issue about the over compensation aspect, and it becomes a point of pride or whatever, there is no one saying that they have to use a pistol. If they can manage to use a crossbow and that's as far as they need to go, fine ..... go for it. But for those that don't have that choice, there are alternatives that could return them to the woods as productive hunters. That is a point that I have already made twice before.

That bothers me too. You know what I find a lot of are these plastic party balloons littering the middle of the woods. Once they're turned loose, nobody knows (or apparently cares) just where they will wind up. As far as the other trash, I usually come out of the woods with my pockets stuffed with surveyor's tape, plastic baggies, beer and soft drink bottles and cans, candy wrappers, and all kinds of other crap that people just throw on the ground. people just don't give a darn about anything anymore. By the way, it's not just hunters either. Most of the trash that I find is along the mountain bike trails that are used by bikers and hikers.

I'm trying to picture just where people could be hunting where ATV traffic could be bothering their hunting. If you're dealing with trespassers, prosecute them. If your on state land, get a good picture of them and contact the DEC because most state land is off-limits to ATVs. If they are being used on private land that you hunt but don't own, they just might have the owner's permission, in which case if it bothers you, it's probably time to move on. If they are using them on adjacent private land, that should be helping you a bit, and at any rate, that is none of your business what happens on neighboring land if it's legal. So just where is all this irritation taking place?

My cold fried egg sandwiches! I know it sounds disgusting, but that's what I cart along when I am going to have something to eat in the stand. The big problem is holding off eating the whole bunch all at once. Once I get started, stand back ..... there will be egg and toast flying all over the place. Then I wind up sitting there looking for something to eat at lunch time. Doc

I'm not sure just when this forum became populated with mind readers, but I don't think it is extreme to suggest that laws actually do what we say they are intended to do. Specifically, I will reference the point that you are still sidestepping: "I'm simply saying that if we are truly serious about helping the disabled continue to enjoy hunting, then do something meaningful like allowing them to use a weapon that really does assist almost all of them in a truly practical fashion.” That’s not extreme. That is simply attempting to add a law that encompasses as many of those that we are trying to help as possible at a very minor impact to the season. If we’re not serious about doing that, then leave things as they are. As far as your comment about “disabled people can already hunt with guns in gun season” ..... yeah ...... so? ..... next year they also will be able to hunt with crossbows in gun season........ so what? ..... What’s the point? None of that changes the fact that this bill would be meaningless to a significant percentage of the disabled that have unfair challenges and would be forced to use crossbows instead of something much more manageable like a pistol. That’s no different in principle to the way the laws are written now. You’re still trying to force them to use a weapon that has a good chance of not meeting their needs and to a certain percent will be just as useless as a compound bow. You see, everyone is trying to make the crossbow some kind of miracle weapon ...... It’s not. Certainly if the disability fits, there would be nothing wrong with them using a crossbow. But that is only a half-measure and totally useless to a whole category of disabled. So what’s the problem with also allowing the use of a pistol for the disabled? Alright, a pistol minus the scope if you want to keep it a short-range weapon. I’m not sure just what it is that you are afraid of. Properly defined and administered, the actual number of disabled that would take advantage of such a law would most likely be a very small number. And like I pointed out in the last response, you would have difficulty telling them from the existing small game hunters and turkey hunters already out there with guns during bow season. Why are we trying to pass laws that are only half-way measures? I don’t understand it unless the intent of this law is something other than helping the disabled. I’m wondering if the crossbow proponents are more concerned with using the disabled to advance their crossbow agenda than actually doing anything truly constructive for the disabled.

My mistake. I thought the point of the legislation was to keep injured or disabled people involved with hunting. That's hardly doing away with bow season or jumping off any cliffs. I'm simply saying that if we are truly serious about helping the disabled continue to enjoy hunting, then do something meaningful like allowing them to use a weapon that really does assist them in a truly practical fashion. Perhaps the type of weapon would have to be determined based on the category of disability, and I am sure that if properly defined and regulated, the small number of hunters that would actually be added afield would hardly be noticed over the existing small game hunters out there with guns already. I wouldn't be expecting a big change in deer take either. This idea of handing them a crossbow just to feel like you have done something wonderful is really only a token gesture and is pretty much the same as ignoring the disabled altogether.

I certainly hope that this idea of sueing the government for not reducing animal populations doesn't catch on everywhere. Imagine what havoc the insurance companies, farmers, nurserymen, and any other anti-deer interests could accomplish if courts started taking such lawsuits seriously here in the U.S. I can see the flood of antlerless permits now as the DEC tries to protect itself against that kind of thing ..... :

Using the same line of reasoning you could say "Why does gun season stop with just firearms? There is bound to be many disabilities that connot be compensated for by a firearm. Why are there no provisions in a bill for people in that more severe bracket of handicap to use traps to snare the deer and hold it still so they can shoot it during gun season." The reason why is because traps are not firearms, just like guns are not archery equipment. Crossbows are archery equipment. Its not rocket science. You know, you're right. At some point we just have to simply admit that we can no longer bowhunt, and there may actually be some ways to provide realistic, practical assistance. Of course that solution all depends on whether we are really concerned about disabled hunters or more interested in trying to cram crossbows into bow season in any way we can. If we are truly concerned about disabled hunters then give them the use of a weapon that actually does help them out in a real way. And that's not rocket science either.

they appear similiar in many regards. I wuld think anyone capable of using a gun to hunt could operate a crossbow. There are cocking aids. weight and firing operation are very similiar ...model depending. How cheap are those cocking aids? I don't think they are standard equipment on the average crossbow are they. Are they one hand operated? Also, if I had only one arm (typical disability even with shoulder and back problems), I might chose to use a pistol, or even a rifle would be a whole lot easier to load and hold. Also, I would think that handguns and rifles might be a lot easier to transport for someone with the use of just one arm/hand. I know that crossbows are very awkward in terms of having lateral instability (side to side rocking) added into the mix. Frankly, if I had the use of only one arm or hand, the crossbow probably would not be a very good option compared to any firearm and especially pistols.

I'm not sure how this thread got onto food plots, but I will admit that I am no big fan of food plots for a lot of the reasons that have already been mentioned. However, I will say that I am getting a bit concerned about the maturing of NYS's habitat. I have been in my chunk of NY for just about all of my life, and have had a unique opportunity to see land use changes over a big chunk of years. I now walk through some chunks of woods that were open fields back in my childhood. I have seen areas that were almost exclusively active family farms turn back through some prime deer country and then continue on into heavy over-story habitat that really isn't all that great for a lot of the critters. So, I guess if there are those that want to keep some small chunks of land open and producing and call them food plots, I can't argue with that a whole lot.

Lol ..... This thread has spun right off into outer space. I don't think it is about the video anymore. Just random flailing around and insults .... ;D . Kind of fun, but doesn't seem to have much of a point anymore : .

Why does this stop with just crossbows? There is bound to be many disabilities that cannot be compensated for by a crossbow. Why are there no provisions in this bill for people in that more severe bracket of handicap to use firearms during bow seasons.

That's what I was thinking. As far as I know nobody got him. It was kind of weird but those small game hunters were the only hunters I know of back there even all the way through gun season. So I think he'll be back in there next year.

I have always over-estimated my ability to drag out a deer. I've done that ever since I was a kid. I always wind up hunting a lot farther back in than I should, or not paying enough attention to whether there will be a lot of uphill in the drag out. It's just not something you tend to think about until the deer is down and laying at your feet. Then all I can say to myself is, "My God, what have you gone and done?" I ran into a small game hunter that was laughing at me bow hunting way the heck back in and he asked me how the heck I would get a deer out of there if I got one. Well, a few weeks later during gun season I found out that I can still do it. But then it wasn't any 291 pound deer ..... . If it had been that big, I might have had to eat it there instead of taking it home. ;D I think I am getting to the age where I had better begin factoring in a little bit of reality though ..... lol.

Jackwagon ..... I like that one. I have no idea what a jackwagon is, and I don't suppose anyone else does either. Those ads have got to be some of the best on TV. My current favorite is the woodchucks chucking wood. ;D Doc

Actually, my version of still-hunting is something that would take you quite a while of watching to figure out whether I am still-hunting or stand hunting. I think the best description of it is a very, very slow moving stand hunt ..... lol. Boredom? ..... I have never experienced that with either method. Impatience maybe, but never boredom. Doc

I was watching a hunting program the other day where the host was talking about how it is absolutely necessary to pass on those 2-1/2 and 3-1/2 year old bucks if you are ever going to get a decent buck worth harvesting. So the answer to your question is there apparently is no such thing as "far enough" ....... lol.

That's the weird part ..... there are squirrels all over the hill. I never understood why those guys climbed all the way up that hill (and it is a cardiac tester) and then walked all the way back just to hunt the same amount of squirrels that are down at the bottom. I do put in some hours squirrel hunting before bow season, but once I have a good buck located, I try to stay clear of any stand areas in that area until I'm ready to hunt. If I have to go in there for further scouting, it is done extremely careful and quiet. I'm hoping that it all was just one really ugly coincidence that won't be repeated next year.

Sounds good! Now all I have to do is catch the fish .... lol.

Got any instructions and/or recipes for making those "fish nuggets"?

It's hard to have any "lows" at all when I'm bowhunting ..... BUT .... I did have some stands that turned out to be pure frustration. On three different occasions, I had a pair of small-game hunters that zeroed in on one of my prime stands and decided to set up for squirrel hunting during some prime hours, just banging away while I was trying to work on a very nice buck in the area. They seemed to get a shot about every 15 minutes or so which I'm sure was very effective at turning back any deer that was thinking about coming into that area. Needless to say, when all that banging started up, daylight buck movement was about the last thing that was about to happen. The amazing thing is that I was over a mile from the nearest road, so I thought I was far away from that kind of interference. It was just one of those things that occasionally happen when you're hunting state land. They have a right to hunt wherever they want, and most likely didn't even know I was trying to hunt there. I'm not sure what I could have done different and I'm not sure how I'm going to avoid the same thing happening next year. That was where the buck was hanging out and apparently it must have been a place that was particularly good for squirrels too ..... lol.

Not sure whether there was a cause and effect situation there. The closing of the sight was abrupt and without any warning or explanation, so I don't know if the site owner died, stepped in quick-sand, moved away, went to prison, got lost on an African safari, developed amnesia, blew up his computer, gave up hunting, or why he shut it down. I wouldn't even guess. Actually I am very curious about the demise of the site. That was one of the strangest things I have ever seen. It was a super active forum, and seemed to be functioning ok. But I guess nobody knows or nobody is going to say. Probably will never know.

Been there ..... Done that ...... don't do it any more.

I don't even like pictures of snakes .... lol. No way I would want to be out shooting them ...... Yuck! Indoor shooting going on in my basement already. 15 yard shot and a very tiny set of bullseyes. One arrow per aiming spot. You can stay pretty sharp with that kind of practice.