Doc

I do.

drilling for gas on the property brings in some extra coin to the land owner correct? i am in no means looking to make money off the property and i would hate to have anyone driling anywhere near the land i end up buying... i want to keep this land for hunting and recreational purposes only. somthing that i can have to retreat to for a little get away and to manage for hunting season. thats really it. i appriciate all the info so far guys! keep it coming. Geno- Today, your only interest in the land may be hunting and recreation. However, always keep your options open as much as possible because things can change. You never know when you might all of a sudden be surrounded by new residences and the value of the land sky-rockets to the point where you would be foolish not to sell. You may find out that some land uses or neighbors adjoining your property are something or someone that you would just as soon not put up with anymore and you might want to sell. You may find out that you have to re-locate and no longer have use for the land. There are potential pollution issues that could render your land worthless (speaking of gas drilling). There could come a time when your financial situation demands that you sell the property. You may want to sell to have some cash to buy a different, more attractive parcel somewhere else. There are a jillion reasons why you may decide at a later date to sell the land. If you treat the land like a speculative investment, you can do your best to make sure that your money grows in value instead of taking a beating if you ever do sell. So it is always wise to look at land (any land bought for any purpose) from a speculators eyes and buy property with profit potential even if you have no intentions of turning over the property immediately. And it's always wise to take moves to ensure that the value will be as safeguarded as possible. Just remember that land is an asset and a part of your net worth and should be managed with that in mind. That is why I am cautioning against any view of land purpose that is kept too narrow. Gas well drilling that has been mentioned may very well be an impact that you want to have control of (regarding the issue of ownership of mineral rights), especially when talking about a small piece of property like 50 acres. Such activity could impact the ability to site a house(s) at some point in the future and could be a negative impact on the land's value. I think you want control of that. Anyway, just some thoughts and reaction to your comment about the land only needing to satisfy hunting and recreational needs.

I wasn't ready for that ending ....... Ha-ha. Really funny video By the way, what do they intend to do with that gavel .... drive fence posts? Doc

I guess people say a lot of things until they actually see an example of it. Politics is an art. Candidates have to have some natural talent towards it otherwise they can do far more damage to their cause than they ever intended. Paladino simply was not cut out for that kind of work. It's too bad, but someone should have recognized that fact before all the attention and support went his way. We certainly were left with a couple of real ugly choices. Like I said, the Republicans and Conservatives gave away what should have been a simple win for them. However, on a positive side, Paladino did highlight the anger in the way government is conducted. No, he didn't scare anyone by making the election close, but I think the liberal NYS politicians did recognize a force that has the capability of growing. I think they are all pretty happy that they dodged the bullet by having a politically challenged candidate to run against. I think it is also true that he successfully got his message across and forced his opponent o pick it up and carry it forward. It is my belief that without Paladino and the Tea Party, a lot of the more conservative rhetoric would not be coming out of Cuomo's mouth.

That is a pretty tiny red light, and just like treestands, it is away from the deer's normal line of sight. Just look at the way some of those deer have their neck twisted up to look directly at the camera. Something significant is getting their attention.

There is no question that those deer know where the camera is and they seem to be looking right at it in many of the pictures. And yet the camera is infra-red with no flash. What is it that is tipping them off? I bought infra-red cameras for "stealth" purposes and avoided the flash cameras because I didn't want the deer to know there was any such strange equipment along the trail. It looks like I could have just gotten the regular flash camera and gotten better quality pictures without any difference as far as deer recognition is concerned. Your pictures clearly show that. Doc

What is sad is that Paladino was the best that the Republican party could come up with. Along with a lot of others, I had to hold my nose to vote for him. The whole campaign was an absolute joke with the outcome being known months before the voting. Yes much of that was due to the liberal posture of the average NYS voter, but we know from the past that Republicans can be elected here. We also know that the opportunity was there for that to happen this year with a severly wounded Democrat party and Paterson at the helm. The opportunity was completely squandered with the nomination of a guy who was totally ill-prepared for the campaign. The Republicans (and my Conservative Party) gave away the election. So here we are living with the consequences of our own folly. What do you do now? Well, I look forward at the state of the state and try to figure out how to straighten out the dangerous mess that will sink us all if it continues to be ignored or attention gets side-tracked. I'm listening to the Democrat, and he seems to be the only one drawing the proper level of attention to the problems of the state. He's the one, saying a whole lot more clearly, the same notions that Paladino was trying to say in his blundering way. This guy has stolen the issues, but is concentrating on those issues none-the-less and carrying them forward. Not only that, but it does seem that he might just have a slim chance of selling Paladino's message. Certainly he has a much more broadbased support from both sides of the aisle and just might be able to pull it off. Our future financial condition (both as a state and individually) count on his success. Considering the consequences of failure, I think it would be foolish to let blind partisanship stand in the way of solutions. I'm not ready to distract the issues by worrying about his girlfriend or any other nit-picky type of distraction. There's important and vital work to be done. Yes, keep an eye on him, but be sure that that doesn't turn into sabotage. We really can't afford that. Doc

No, they weren't outlaws. There were no laws concerning hunting methods. They simply used whatever methods that were used at the time to prevent one particular concern that today's hunters don't have ....... hunger. Their very existance depended on their abilities as hunters. In their own context of the day, they absolutely were true hunters and a lot better at their hunting than we ever will be given the limitations of their weapons. In terms of their understanding of the prey and the habitat that they lived in, they were a whole lot more in tune with all things wild than any of us will ever be. Yes I would say that they were indeed the epitome of true hunters in any sense of the definition. Maybe today we have the luxury of not approving of their methods but then we aren't in the same circumstances as they were. And that all doesn't mean that they didn't know their craft or were breaking any rules or regulations of their time. I wonder how many of today's hunters could actually live off the land as they did? I sure would hate to feed our family with what I got this year ;D .

When the food plotting rage all began, everyone claimed that food plots were just a benevolent activity with no other concern than that of helping to feed the deer. Lol .... I think it probably goes a bit farther than that ..... don't you think? Well, today hunters are a little less shy about saying that their plots are for drawing and holding deer in their hunting areas for hunting purposes. I would have to assume that as part of that, you would have a result (intentional or not) of drawing deer off neighboring lands. I suppose that's just a necessary consequence of getting involved in the feeding patterns of a local herd. What the heck, if he wants the deer back he can put in a bigger and better food plot .... ;D

I have to agree with that. It takes a bit of study and understanding of your prey to be able to position yourself within 20 yards (in the case of bowhunting) of the one spot that a deer will go, at a specific point in time with wind and cover conditions just right. This is particularly challenging when you consider the amount of alternate acreage where they could be. That is a bit of the familiarity and intimate understanding of the prey that I spoke of earlier that is all part of being a true hunter. And yes it is usually the result of a lot of pre-work, sign reading, observation and analysis. That's all a significant part of hunting too. In most cases that set of successful circumstances are not the result of luck, and the correct set of circumstances is also one of the things that one "hunts" for in order to provide success.

If that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. As I've already indicated in my previous posts, I have a few opinions that are "personal preference". I won't say that they are common beliefs or that they are even correct in the mainstream. They are just a product of upbringing and a very personal feeling toward hunting. My feeling that hunting must be totally a product of my own doing alone is just such an opinion. I don't say that anyone else has to abide by it, but it is just my individual feeling toward hunting. You are certainly entitled to the same kinds of individual feelings.

Well, here's my take on the whole Cuomo thing. I didn't vote for him because of his publicly noted idealogy. We lost .... he won. I'm not happy with that, but that's the way it worked out. Now I hear this leftist pinko commie making speeches that make him sound far more fiscally conservative than good ol' Paladino. Ok, so let's see just whether the actions and results follow along with the current words and attitudes. At this point, we don't have a lot of options anyway....lol. We've got plenty of time to bad-mouth him if he turns out to be a liar and a con artist. But for the time being, as long as he is taking positions that need to be taken, I'm just going to sit back and watch and listen. Temporarily at least, it may be useful to have him operating from a position of strength. He's got an awful lot of pinkos in his own party that are going to have to be dealt with if he is going to succeed with the spending slashing that he needs to do for the state to survive. I'm not too interested in interfering with that part of the process by nit-picking him to death ...... yet. It's going to be interesting to watch the fiscal condition of NYS begin to twist the normal democrat liberal idealogy. Kind of hard on those libs to have to begin to adopt conservative methods particularly when it is the head of their party that has to push conservative financial values the hardest. I'm actually kind of enjoying this a bit ..... lol. Let's just see where it all leads.

Thanks for the invite, but for me hunting is still a contest between me and the deer without the team approach. It's just a personal requirement for my satisfaction of the hunt and has been for quite a few years now. Win, lose, or draw, I want my hunts to be the results of my own efforts.

I'm certain that all these dead animals are the results of alien experimentation.

That's funny. They all always looked the same to me, but there is some real significant differences.

Oh Boy!!! ...... I hear there are some ladies looking for you!!!! :-X

Are there any opportunities to float hunt downstream from Letchworth, or are you likely violating trespass laws if you do that? I noticed that through that area, the current seems to be a lot more manageable and it looks like it runs through some prime farm country.

The physical efforts and hardships such as climbing mountains or walking in tough terrain, or suffering climate extremes etc., may be good measures of physical fitness, but not necessarily a requirement of a "true hunter". At least I don't couple those together. In fact some pretty darn good hunters eventually have to substitute hunting smarter for hunting harder and probably deserve some recognition for even having that option. My opinion of a true hunter is kind of an all around measure of woodsmanship and extensive useful knowledge of what he is supposed to be hunting. If he's in excellent physical shape, that may make his hunting easier, but to me, that is not a primary measure of a skilled hunter. I have never been on an African safari, but EVERY one that I have seen on TV (absolutely no exceptions), the guide managed the hunt, the trackers found the animals, the guide set up the shooting sticks and made the call on which animal to shoot, and all the hunter did was to follow instructions and stand where the guide told him and pulled the trigger (sometimes only after the guide explained to him where he had to hit the animal). And after he made the shot, the trackers took over and finished off the hunt. All of the things that the guide and the trackers did were the overwhelming majority of the elements of hunting. The hunter did the shooting, not the hunting. I will congratulate him on having gone on a hunt that I will never go on. I will admire whatever mounts and photos he comes home with. I will not downgrade his hunt. But, when we talk about "true hunters", he probably will not be the first one that comes to mind. To one extent or another, all guided hunts seem to have some elements of the hunting part taken over by the guide to one extent or another. In my book, those clients are not really allowed to participate in the many of the true elements of the hunt. They are paying someone to hunt for them so they can do the shooting. There is nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do, and in many cases you may not even have a choice, but when you are looking for a way to define a "true hunter", in my opinion, you need to be looking at individuals who actually do all the elements of hunting. That's just a thing that has always been stuck in my mind, and I will be the first to admit that many likely do not view hunting the same way that I do. But anyway, that is the thinking behind my comments above. Doc

I have to admit that it is a strange situation. I'm still a bit old fashioned about such things and that arrangement doesn't really sit all that well with me. However, let's not dilute our focus on more important, critical, and relevant issues. I'm willing to temporarily cut him some slack if he surprises me with moves to the right. Given the challenges he has on his plate, he is going to be forced to shed some of his liberal idealogy. If he doesn't, then we will have some real and tangible items to hang out there. Right now I have no interest in drumming up sympathy for him by appearing to be nit-picking his romantic choices. I suspect that the public has had it's fill of those kinds of campaigns, and such comments may just create a back-lash.

That's what does it for me. That's why I became involved with hunting, trapping and fishing. Yes, I have strayed a long ways from the traditional equipment of those that went before us. But you know, I may have added a couple of yards onto my shooting distance, but even with all my fancy equipment, I still stay at 25 yards max bow distance, and not a whole lot more than 50 yards max when shooting with the shotgun. So the actual hunting skills haven't changed a whole lot. I guess if I have any equipment advantages over our predecessors, I sure don't use it. I really don't hunt a whole lot different than the indians or the pioneers. My stuff just looks fancier ..... ;D . I'm not impressed by those that make the longest shot, but rather those that can make the shortest. So yes, the motives and needs may have changed, but for me the methods really haven't. Of course I am not nearly as good at it as they were back then .... . For me the historical and cultural aspects of hunting do factor into my attitudes and values about what a true hunter is, not the guides, outfitters or select hunting areas that he can afford to create, buy, lease, or gain access to. I'll admit that I am probably in the minority on that kind of thinking, but when I saw the title of this topic, those are the things that kind of went through my head. That historical connection does factor deeply into the kinds of things that define a true hunter for me.

;D .... I don't know of any practical portage around the Middle Falls. That would be a bit of a harsh landing if you went over.

I know of people who have killed deer with 35# compounds. And back in the olden times, a 45# recurve was considered adequate to do the job. With the kinds of poundages we are talking, I doubt that either bow or crossbow would have a problem with enough energy at 100 yards. I'm sure we will be finding out because there's no doubt that some people will try it.

Frankly, I like your method of promoting the harvest of mature deer a whole lot better than just cranking out laws that require it. Also the soft-sell method works a whole lot better than the brow-beating method of trying to apply guilt or belittleing the accomplishments of others. People that start the fire and brimstone preaching generally create other hunters that simply dig in their heels and tune out on the entire thought of passing any deer. It's just human nature.

I think I had in mind one of these African safaris where the guide and his trackers locate the game for you, tell you what to shoot, when to shoot and even set up the shooting sticks for you ..... ha-ha. And then if the animal doesn't fall right on the spot, they do all the tracking. So how much of the "true hunting" does that client actually do? How about the New Zealand hunts for tar, chamois (sp?), red stag, fallow deer, etc. All occur with free range animals, but how much hunting do the clients actually do? Mountain goat hunts? ..... sheep hunts? ..... brown bear hunts? ...... Alaskan moose hunts? How about a fully guided and outfitted elk hunt? ....Not a whole lot different than that African safari. All these clients proudly display the mounts, but if those hunts were guided, how much true hunting was involved by the shooter. Are those guys "true hunters"? I think there are a lot of guides that might be the true hunters and they didn't even pull the trigger. Now let's consider one of those Texas "box-blind" hunts with the feeder just outside the camera view. Even without any fences, are those guys "true hunters"? This question of "true hunters" goes a lot farther than just fences. For the most part, this question about being a true hunter is probably a question that we shouldn't dwell on a whole lot. It really is a question that produces a lot more heat than it does unity. Except for the most extreme, offensive practices, it's probably best not to get involved with trying to decide who is the true hunter and who is not. No matter which way you move on that one, you are going to step on toes. Doc

I think that range changes a bit when you drop down the legs of the bi-pod and shoot prone or sitting with your back against a tree. It's not exactly bench rested, but it is awfully close. Maybe there's some reason why it's not as easy as it sounds, but I'll bet those bipods are not put on there just for decoration. Also, I don't see why there would be any problems with doing like I do with my shotgun. I simply provide horizontal gun rests in my ground blinds Works good with the shotgun, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work with a crossbow.