Doc

Well that's twice that I've spooked him at roughly the same spot. I don't have a lot of confidence that I will get him there. However, I'm sure he has other activities around some of my other stands. So maybe I'll run into him again, or maybe not. I usually only get so many opportunities each year, and I can't afford to be screwing them up like that. But even though I blew it, there is still one heck of a lot of excitement about getting that close and I really enjoyed the experience. Doc

Well, before you continue wandering too far away from what you were originally saying, let me bring it all back in focus. You originally were supporting antler spread as the AR method of choice. I assume that would involve some specific number of inches as a legal minimum, not some feeling or assumption, or guess. I pointed out that it is not a practical method of selection and gave reasons for that and supplied a bunch of pictures that supported that point since in most instances you simply cannot see the spread. So far, you have not told me one way that you are going to get those deer to turn their head toward you so you have a chance of complying with the law. Further, you offered no spread dimensions for the pictures of the bucks I supplied, and of course that is because there is absolutely no way that you could. So much for the practicality of antler spread for a legal standard. All I hear you saying is to make sure the antlers are so big that they can't possibly be under the legal spread. What kind of law is that? Is that how you would have the law written? That doesn't make any sense to hold hunters to a legal standard of something that cannot be seen most of the time. Doc

There is a lot of that "hunting by the numbers" game going around these days. When you talk about competition in hunting, I always consider that competition to be between me and the deer, not between me and other hunters. So for me there is no need or value in keeping score. I'll be honest, I don't have a clue how to score a rack, and most likely I'll never have any need or desire to learn. I don't need a numbers system to evaluate my hunting abilities or to determine my goals and challenges. What the heck, it's not a hockey game ..... lol. Doc

That's an interesting thought. I don't think I have ever seen that specifically written, but if you think about it, the legal definition of what can be used for deer hunting is defined (is a field tip specifically defined to be illegal for deer hunting?). Since it wouldn't be too hard to prove that you are out "deer hunting", I think you might be able to make a case for it being illegal to possess an arrow that cannot legally be used to hunt deer. That is assuming that field tips are identified as illegal for deer hunting. It certainly is something that's worth looking into if you are going to carry something like that on your deer hunting trips. Another thought too, is that since turkey season overlaps deer season, you might be tempted to include some of these special turkey broadheads on some of your arrows. That's another thing that should be looked at for legality, just to make sure. Doc

screwed up again last night. The night before last when I was coming down the hill, I jumped a nice buck about half-way down the hill. On the way up, I spotted 1 scrape along the quad-trail at this location, and after seeing this buck I noticed another two. Looked like the spot had possibilities. I hunted another spot yesterday morning, but decided to move in on this guy in the afternoon. I have no stands there, so I left a bit early and walked up the hill to look for a strategically placed fat tree big enough to set-up behind. Here's the problem: I had no idea where this guy comes from and really didn't know which way to expect him to come in. No tracks, no trails, no nothin'. So, I backed off up-wind to a point where I could see the whole area and figured I would just use the spot that I picked for an observation stand to try to get an idea of what his routine might be for future hunts. I was treating the whole thing a bit too casually, and I tipped my bow up against the tree, and sat back and enjoyed the great day. 5:00, he comes running in. Well maybe it was trot. Anyway, I was caught cold right in plain sight. The first I saw him he was already only about 50 yards away. Naturally I was on the wrong side of the tree. But what the heck this was only an observation situation anyway and I really didn't expect to be doing any shooting. That was a bad mistake. He turned and trotted right straight at me. At about 15 yards he made a turn and stopped broadside, posing for me and he still didn't notice me sitting there right in plain sight. He took a little glance in the other direction, and I took the break to reach for my bow. When I did that, my release dangling from my wrist ticked the bow limb. That was it ..... game over. He was gone. Just a total fiasco! Well, we'll wait a week or so and test out that theory about a deer's memory that we talked about on a different thread. ;D Doc

One thing of interest on that presentation that was linked at the bottom of the original post was on page 22 there was a map of wild boar sightings in NYS. It appears that every county along our border with PA has sightings. Does that mean that PA is infested with them? Judging from all the sightings in NY, it appears that they are here already, and perhaps in breeding populations. Maybe it is not just a theoretical problem anymore, buy a reality. Doc

I could've sworn I read that somewhere too, but I just re-read the book twice and can't find it anywhwere. I've never done drugs and I quit drinkin' so I guess it's just old age kicking in. ;D In NYS it is not just baiting that is illegal, but feeding deer as well. So the 30 day thing wouldn't make sense. However, I have read posts on other forums that talk about restrictions in other states that have that 30 day rule. That is probably where you heard it. Doc

Our local deer population is large enough to warrant doe harvests. I have no problem with that. Depending on your confidence in the DEC, you might assume that if permits are available, the herd locally must need some decrease in numbers. I generally use a blend of what the DEC is saying and what I am actually seeing in order to determine whether I want to fill my antlerless tags or not. That decision has not always been the same from one year to the next. What really doesn't make sense is for people to complain about deer scarcity and then try to max out their antlerless tags. The opposite is also true. It's pretty silly to complain about a perceived over-population situation and then refuse to shoot does. Doc

I have seen some definite chasing activity already from at least one of the bucks, so I'm sure some of the increased car/deer collisions are coming from that activity. Doc

Well, I sure couldn't complain about the wind this morning. It was dead quiet, and it did pay off with a lot of action. I had some goofy little 6 point pushing does all around my ground stand. I had him within 15 yards, but when I say he was a 6 point, I mean a nicely shaped but teeny, almost silly-looking, rack. He was a real small body sized deer too. Just as I decided not to shoot him, the does formed a nice circle around my blind, but I couldn't draw or move because I always had a couple of them that would have seen me if I had moved. They aren't supposed to circle the hunter, so naturally I had no cover on the back-side of the blind. It kind of left me in a bad situation and unable to do anything. In all the years, I don't think I have ever had that happen before. All told there were 8 deer (7 does and the one buck). I don't know why they never got my wind. But it sure was exciting for a few minutes until the little buck finally chased all of the does away. All that up-close-and-personal activity and I never got to shoot. I also had a little episode earlier with 4 raccoons that came waddling through the woods and headed straight for the tree that my stand is constructed around. I had to step out and spook them off before I wound up with them in my lap. All in all, it was a great morning and once I finish lunch, I'll be heading back out for the afternoon. I want to check another chunk of the hill and then take up a stand about 3:00. Doc

Then why on earth should they just open their land to all who think they are the savior, when in fact it will have little to no effect beyond what they are doing? ??? ??? ??? ? What in the devil are you arguing about? do you just argue to see your words in print? For crying out loud what is so amazingly controversial about saying that it is in the best interest of farmers to enlist whatever help they can find to eradicate an environmental disaster before it gets a toe-hold. I honestly don't understand what it is that has your shorts in such a bunch about what I am saying. You seem to be awfully up-tight on the subject. Maybe I missed something along the way, but your reaction seems to be way out of proportion. Could you clarify the big attitude that you have adopted on this topic? Doc

Actually that is just one of many gaffes that he has made in this campaign. What it does point out is that he is not real skilled in the smooth and polished double-speak of politics, and probably would not be real good at hood-winking the public and getting away with graft and corruption. I would count that as one of the positives in a candidate. However, it is a fact that all that really doesn't matter if you can't get elected. What I am hoping for is that the voters will develop this stubborn "protest attitude" and will vote for Paladino simply to send a message to Albany that they do have to govern with our votes in mind, rather than simply ignoring the constituents and conducting the state's business for their own personal benefit. Man that is a long-shot, but the alternative is to set up another bunch of years of watching NYS become the laughing stock of the country with more of the same kind of people. Doc

So what you're saying is that there really is no way of determining the legality of those bucks when it comes to satisfying some theoretical antler spread restriction that you are supporting. Your real solution is to simply wait until a deer goes by that satisfies your own personal goals and the antler spread stuff is just a bunch of irrelevant nonsense that most of the time can't be determined anyway. Well, I guess we agree on that. Doc

That's a heck of great video. I wasn't expecting the harvest pictures. I thought it was just some great footage of bucks working a scrape. Surprise ending. By the way, what was the make and model of that camera. It sure does take some great pictures! Doc

Yup! It ranges the distance to the far antler and then the distance to the near antler and then subtracts the two.

Comfy treestand???? .....Heck no. I sit in my comfy ground blind. I don't go up in those trees anymore. Doc

See, now I happen to know you are wrong. When I ran up to them with my Stanley retractable tape measure, they measured an average of 17.2398". I think I would have to learn the art of snap shooting if an antler spread rule were implemented. First I would have to get their attention with a whistle or by hollering so that they would look straight at me and I could see how the spread compared to the distance across their ears, and then get an arrow into them before they took off. : Doc

I do believe that deer do "learn". I have seen them change patterns due to human disturbances. I have seen it claimed that deer respond to the noise of a feeder that's on a timer. Deer know how to find their way back to an oak woods without having to stumble on to it each day. I don't think that it is scent that tells them how to get back there. There are also danger responses that are learned from their mothers. They seem to be able to repeat those foot stomps and head bobs and that stiff legged walk without ever getting them mixed up. There must be some memory being used there, at least at first until it becomes engrained behavior. After all, I have never seen them forget and get that stuff all mixed up and start stomping their head or bobbing there legs ..... lol. If they can learn, they must have memory. Doc

What is the spread measurement on these deer?

An excellent question! A bit more recently than 40 years, the New York Outdoor News has highlighted numerous articles detailing the deep cuts dictated by Paterson, so it has not really been a secret. And even today, with the latest Grannis developments, it is the environmentalists and the "greenies" that are raising heck about the situation. I haven't heard any sportsmen making a sound so far. So, when you ask where were the sportsmen while all this was going on, I don't have an answer. Doc

If those guys are able to handle the problem by themselves, they will be the first that I have ever heard of that could. As I understand it, even with totally open hunting, it is nearly impossible to eradicate the things. And as a matter of fact, the fact that they are now starting to show up in many different parts of the state sort of indicates that there are a lot more of these farmers who think they can handle the situation on their own than there are farmers that can actually do it. Doc

Sounds like a scalp disease contracted from a deer. Doc

I'm from down in the hill-country, with all the valleys and crosswise ravines, etc. Just all the features to create thermals and all kinds of wind-baffles, and it is a rare event that you don't see the wind see-sawing back and forth. In fact, these stronger winds really do keep the winds on more of a steady course than some of the more gentle breezy days. Anyway, I totally understand your frustration with winds that don't behave. I also share the frustration of the weatherman never being able to predict wind directions. I think they always are talking about the wind directions up at that nice flat Rochester airport....lol. Doc

If landowners wait until these things are common everyday residents of their property, they will be unwitting accomplices to establishment of an environmental disaster that will impact their use and enjoyment of their own land forever. I don't doubt that there are a lot of landowners with that kind of short-sightedness. Unfortunately, if they are not willing or able to eradicate these critters from getting established on their property themselves, I would hope that they would not only welcome those that are willing to help, but actually go out of their way to solicit help at solving the problem before there winds up no solution to it at all. Well, that's what we would hope, but the reality of it all is more likely what you have stated. Until they actually see the environmental damage first hand (which is usually too late), they will continue to view hunters as being the greater evil than the hogs. Doc

I don't think that the deer will evacuate the area .... lol. However, they may take on that defensive invisible mode as happens when gun season rolls around. I say might, because I don't really know. It probably all depends on how intensive and frequent the waterfowl hunting takes place. I do know from past experience, that before the opening day of gun deer season is anywhere near completed, the deer take on a completely different attitude and do indeed take on a highly secretive nocturnal pattern of feeding and movement and even rut, that is not broken unless the deer are kicked in the butt by hunters. Doc