Doc

I noticed some comments on another thread that are kind of picking around the edges of why we hunt. So rather than pulling that thread farther off-topic, I thought I would start a new thread devoted to that question. So I am curious, what drives each of us to head out each fall in pursuit of wild game? I suppose there will be the usual answers about all the nutricious meat, and that may be big in some people's minds, but isn't there something a little more basic that makes us feel the need to go out and get our own food or test our skills against a live animal? In some cases, the need centers more on the trophy aspect than the meat. I'll bet we don't all have the same reasons. Doc

I really don't mind a little bit of a breeze, but when the trees are bending over and huge limbs are busting off, The deer aren't the only ones that get nervous. I have watched deer that for some reason have gotten up on their feet in a high wind, and they certainly look like the perfect picture of paranoia. There just is nothing that gets by them. But mainly I have noticed that high winds suppress movement. That's not helping out the cause any, and frankly I'm getting pretty darn upset watching my season going down the toilet with day after day of gale force winds. Doc

Just like last year, I have come across far more scrapes than I have rubs. This is exactly opposite what I have seen in all my previous years of hunting. Actually, I have seen way more bucks than the sign would indicate. Can't explain it. It looks like we are developing "stealth bucks". ;D Doc

I don't know about being offended, but I've got to say that even as a hunter, I don't get any real charge out of looking at pictures that are taken for obvious "shock value". It doesn't do a thing for me ..... lol. There's nothing wrong with being a bit conscious of what is normally considered to be simply disgusting and poor taste. Certainly I am not overly sensitive since as a hunter, I have many times been elbow deep in the gore and internals of deer and other game. However, I don't think it really serves any purpose to take pictures just to see who you can gross out. What's the point? Generally I take pictures of the deer to highlight the animal and document the event. It serves no purpose to have attention unduly taken away from that by some distracting display of gore or sloppy posing of the animal. It's not a big deal, but just a little piece of personal preference in the way I like to document the results of my hunting. Doc

As much as it does truly pain me to have to agree with Sits ..... lol .... he actually does have a point that people here really had better think about. There definitely is a disregard for law and order that some of these trespassers have when they knowingly cross that posted line, and we definitely should understand the potential risks involved with dealing with these kinds of individuals. Taking time to size-up the mental stability and make-up of these characters is always a good idea before planning just how to proceed. Keep the situation under control. I generally have a bit of conversation with these people before I confront them with the trespass talk. That all just gives you a chance to size them up a bit and perhaps get a look at their back tag and maybe learn a bit about their ID, and maybe the location of their car and anything else that would help in prosecution. Also, the hand-gun thing (or any weapon). Unless you are in imminent personal danger or threatened with violence, menacing with a firearm is a situation you likely will never pull off without some serious legal harm. So, think before you act. There may be a lot more at stake than you realize. Also, when weapons become involved, you never really know how the situation might evolve. Pulling a gun could escalate the situation into result that is not at all what you might plan. I understand the frustration of having people trample all over your rights as a landowner, but there is a right way and a wrong way to respond while safeguarding your physical, legal and financial well-being. Doc

Yeah, but when you take a look at some of the great camps that some of these guys have got with the rustic setting and the lack of all the distractions of home life, you have to admit that there has to be something special about packing up all the gear and heading out to camp for some time that is purely set aside and devoted to hunting and nothing else. Add to that the comraderie of a bunch of fellow hunters, and it all becomes an "event" rather that just another day at home. At least that's the way I picture it all. Yes, I do enjoy the convenience of hunting out of the house on land that I can scout year round any time I want strictly at a whim. But there are other benefits to life at a hunting camp that provide a unique hunting experience. My brother-in-law and I even built a cabin up on top of the hill years ago, about 3/4 mile from the house just to have the hunting camp experience. We used it for a bunch of years and it was great but he lives up in Canada and was re-assigned to the west and can't get down here anymore for hunting. So the cabin hasn't been used in quite a few years now. Doc

And the wind keeps blowing ..... and blowing ...... and blowing. I finally gave up early tonight. I expected that any deer I might see go by would probably be tumbling, and I really haven't practiced my moving shots lately to see if I could actually shoot a deer that was going end over end. I did notice some rather large limbs coming out of the trees this afternoon which kind of had me nervously eyeballing some of those dead limbs hanging out over my head on the big old oak that my stand is located behind. The other thing I noticed was that the harder the wind blows, the more likely that each gust will be followed by a back-flow that blows right out to the trail. I've been hitting it kind of hard since the season started so I guess I deserved a break anyway. I have some medical stuff to take care of tomorrow so that day is completely off. As I understand it, it isn't supposed to be any prize anyway. Saturday, I will be ready to resume the battle, fully rested and refurbished. Doc

One thing that can help (wherever possible) is to establish an ATV trail around the perimeter or as close to it as possible. There is something about fresh ATV tracks that lends credibilty to the "patrolled" part of the -posted and patrolled- language on your posted signs. I've found that most potential trespassers get a bit nervous when they realize that the landowner actually does patrol his property or I should say that this tactic has significantly cut the incidents of trespassing on my property. The beauty of is that today with the electric ATV's, they can't even be sure that there will be a audible warning that you're coming. The trail also provides help in accessing the posted line for sign repairs and replacements. Doc

I'm thinking that the best way to check the thing out would be to have a buck that is obviously out of range and is going to keep right on walking away. Let loose with it and see what his reaction is. Trying to use the call for just "blind calling" doesn't tell you that the thing doesn't work or whether there simply isn't a buck within earshot. Doc

Just watch your back-side ..... lol.

I remember on the old forum, we had a pretty lively debate about allowing legal hunting hours to be extended to 1/2 hour after sunset. This guy pushed that thought even farther.....lol. Isn't it actually dark at the time this happened? It's got to be darned near it.

And yet there are many posts here and on other forums from many members who claim to do exactly that, including myself. That doesn't mean that I am for mandatory AR, but I have no problems with setting my own challenges and goals. I believe that choice is available to anyone and it doesn't require mandatory AR to do it. But if they are going to claim support for the principle, they should at least be making the effort to practice it personally. Otherwise their support loses credibility. Doc

Do you only have the use of this area just for this weekend, or is it for the rest of the season? Tactics will be different if you only have a couple of days to jump in there and hit pay dirt immediately. If you have time, I would suggest devoting at least one morning and evening stand in an upwind location for observation of the fields. This will give you a quick idea of how the fields are being used, and where the points of entry are. I think regardless of what your time frame is, some fast scouting time is going to be required. Otherwise you're just flying blind. If you are there only for the weekend, I would plan on spending the first day with intensive scouting of field edges looking for entrance and exit trails. Then try to follow these trails back into the surrounding cover to try to locate staging areas and/or find potential bedding areas. Somehow you have to establish patterns without the luxury of time and experience. That's a pretty tough assignment to jump into a strange area and make it pay off in one weekend. If you have more time available to you, the job gets a lot easier. Doc

And that basically shows the actual level of dedication to the principle that they really have. They talk themselves into all kinds of stories and reasons and excuses why they can support AR but not actually practice it. The myth that that is all that is available to them is just one of those rationalizations and the folly of that rationalization is proven all over the state every season in non-AR WMUs. So the bulk of these bogus supporters have the best of both worlds. They can make themselves sound like elite hunters among their peers and yet not bother to walk the talk. That's the kind of phoney support that AR has. It's all attitude and no substance. Doc

Ha- ha ..... I am in my hunting area. My home is my hunting camp. Sometimes I envy you guys a bit when you actually have someplace special to do your hunting. But anyway ...... yes, I will continue to be hunting hard this weekend and I hope that sooner or later, I will be rewarded for my stubborness. ;D Doc

The fact is that a lot of people claim to be all for AR until the deer gets in front of them. In other words, the whole idea sounds great to your peer group and is intended to imply that you are some sort of superior hunter, so AR makes a good sounding thing to support. I mean, isn't it great to stick out your chest and proudly proclaim, "I will kill no buck before it's time. That's because ....... drum roll ....... I am a great hunter!" We've been reading a lot of that sort of thing here lately. Unfortunately, there is the reality of harvest data. That's when this "great majority" of high principled AR supporters and self-annointed hunting elitists are forced to expose their true feelings as the crosshairs actually settle on the spikes and fork-horns. Doc

Had a lot of help tonight ....... the deer did, that is. From 4:00 to 5:45, I had a couple of guys small game hunting throughout the area I was hunting (too late for me to move to another area). I say they were small game hunting, but I'm sure that the small game included chipmunks, chickadees and anything else that moved and maybe a few things that didn't. There was no way that any self-respecting deer would enter the obvious combat zone. In fact I was wondering just what the heck I was doing there myself. This is an area that's more than a mile from the road, and requires a long steep climb to get to. Also, just in case any stupid deer was to stumble into the area, the wind was blowing like a hurricane, and circling to the point where I could never really say what direction it was trying to be. Sometimes I just get so damned stubborn, and it never really does do any good. ;D Maybe next time I will recognize a losing situation when I see it and call it quits. Doc

If the polls have any credibility at all, his chances look mighty slim. The bad news of all this is that the Cuomo administration (and other politicians of his ilk) will take the voting results as a mandate for the continuation of liberal policies, and a repudiation of conservatism, and a confirmation that the people of NYS are powerless to control their politicians allowing them to continue to govern accordingly. That's why I will be casting my vote for Paladino. Not because I think he is some miracle-worker who can cure all of NYS's woes, but simply as a protest and to show the Cuomos of this state that not everyone here agrees with the "liberal" state of mind. Doc

If we are still talking about the PPT slide show linked in the original post of this thread, "Antlers outside the ears" is the exact phrase mentioned several times on page 20 of the powerpoint presentation. Perhaps I have missed the context of this comment. Doc

I do not shoot beyond 30 yards. Frankly, I would just as soon not have to even shoot that far. I really like 15 yards Doc

It's not a question of liking or disliking AR. It is this antler spread idea that goes way beyond any sensible practicality. I guess what you are saying is, if a buck is not looking at the hunter, you would force all hunters to simply let it walk. Or they can take a risk that the rack is so big it just has to meet the spread requirement (Too bad if they're wrong). I wonder if you know just how silly all that sounds. And you would actually support a law to that effect. See it's ideas such as that that really give the DEC some credibility for the responsible judgement that they have shown on the AR issue. No wonder they don't take AR seriously if that's the kinds of suggestions they are getting from the proponents. It could be that AR proponents are their own worst enemy. : Doc

Lol ..... So now we have bow hunters calling gun-hunters names and wanting to eliminate some of their season too. I guess that's only fair, usually it is the other way around. I guess that's what hunters do ..... they try to take season days from each other and then make disparaging remarks about each other. "Spoiled fat kid of hunting world"????? It sure is interesting to watch. But maybe we should be a little more careful about who we want to run out and pick fights with. Bowhunters are still in the minority and there sure are a lot of them that would be more than happy to push us out of the deer season. Don't come to a gun fight with a bow ..... lol. ;D That's not the way the saying goes, but it still fits Doc

Pretty much going in a circle here aren't we? You refuse to answer how the law could be applied if the deer isn't looking at you. Is that just another "no-shoot" situation? Or do you make some kind of noise to get him to look straight at you and then after a hurried judgement, snap off a shot quick before he bolts if he's a keeper. That sounds like a real good idea. I will repeat that antler spread ARs are simply not the right way to go for all the reasons that I have laid out and you have ignored. Doc

Are you serious??? Is it brown???? ...... It's down!! ;D Easy now...............just kidding Yes, it's a goofy looking deer, but what character. A mount like that would be likely to draw one of two reactions.... Either awe or laughter. But either way, it certainly would catch people's attention. Doc

Yeah, I suppose there are a lot of meteorological happenings that effect deer movements, And I suppose that a serious hunter might want to make a study of all that stuff. I mean, what the heck we study everything else about deer and their habits, so why not the forces of nature that effect those habits. But the fact is that I have always had a lot of problems with some of the contradictory opinions on a lot of it. A lot of that sort of thing is some pretty dry reading, and then the first time any of it gets tested, the deer do something just the opposite of what is commonly accepted. So, you won't find me studying lunar tables and high and low pressure formations, etc. One thing I do pay attention to is the prediction of heavy rains (like yesterday). That's not based on predicted deer movements, but simply based on what a rain storm will do to a blood trail. Also, as a point of personal comfort, I don't particularly want to get soaked. Also, for obvious reasons, I pay close attention to predicted wind directions, and hope that once in a while the weather people are correct. Also, I pay attention to high wind predictions. That does not mean that I stay home when the wind is blowing, but my confidence level takes a serious hit when the wind is howling. I think that generally I have the same philosophy as others here. I hunt when I can and when I feel like it. Being retired I can put in some serious time, but being retired doesn't mean free from appointments and other activities. So there is no way that I am going to let other scientific theories keep me from hunting when I think the time is right. Doc