Doc

Yup! it's not the first time and probably won't be the last. 4 good sized does came out in my little grasslot not too long before the end of shooting time and stayed out of range, just having a great time casually munching away while it got darker and darker. I was in a pop-up blind that did it's job real well, but I found myself trapped inside afraid to pack up and unzip and step outside. The good news is that the back door opens up into a bunch of fir trees that I planted, and the zipper is plastic and very quiet. So anyway here is what I tried. I grabbed my grunt call, and started playing a tune on it hoping the does would think some horny buck was on its way into the field and just maybe with the chasing of the rut they might just scoot out of the field so I could exit the blind. Well, maybe that was a good thought but it didn't work. Instead it just pulled their attention to the blind. It also got them all to get even closer ...... not at all what I wanted or expected. Finally they got to the point where they were mostly ignoring the grunt call and simply went back to their grazing. They were about 20 yards away, but the shooting hours were past even though lightwise I could have easily made the shot. So, I was forced to go to plan B. Finally, I set eveything down on the ground, and used the road noise (highway is fairly close) to cover the noise of the zipper, and slipped out the back. Being instantly 1 row inside the fir plantation, I was also instantly screened from view. So I just left everything in the blind and snuck down the row of trees and made a big circle around the field and back to the house. I just might have pulled it off, because I heard no snorting or stomping or crashing off into the thicket. I'll get my stuff tomorrow morning. It probably would be a good idea to let the place calm down a bit before I hunt there again. Of course, it's a spot that can only be hunted with a south wind (very scarce the last couple of weeks), and also we only have a few days of bow season left. It's a real shame because I have regularly been getting pictures of this bunch feeding within a few yards of this stand. So anyway, I can't be the only guy that's been trapped this way (either in a ground blind or a treestand). What do you guys do to make the great escape without busting the area for the remainder of the season? Doc

The real bad news is that a certain percentage of people will link his actions with hunters regardless of the facts. This sort of thing always is bad news for the sport of hunting even though we all know that it should not be. Of course it's unfair, but that's just the way people associate things. Nothing you can do about it. Doc

Yup, for a season or two and then you are back to square one but with a lot fewer hunters. And what the heck for? Yeah, I know so that the herd gets all healthy (as though they're not) and for a season or so, you have what is imagined to be some kind of better buck to doe ratio (which is something even the real experts are only guessing at and also something that none of them agree on. What a crock! Actually, the real purpose is that it would allow whatever hunters that are left to have an easier time getting something to hang on their walls and that's pretty much what all these schemes are all about. Thank heavens the DEC is having none of it.

When I first started the Excel project, I used a little spiral bound notebook that fit in my shirt pocket. But the spreadsheet quickly grew to the point where that wasn't enough room. So I went to the input sheet that was filled out when I got home. That works well. What ever you use is unimportant. What is important is to see to it that those memories are not lost and that those experiences can be relived in future years. If you can turn it into a diagnostic tool ....... so much the better. Doc

Look, all I did was to respond to a post mentioning a doe only season, and you have me not wanting "anything to do with management" : . Your right in a way. I don't want to have anything to do with that kind of a half-baked idea of short-term, feel-good management. If you are taking ownership of that nutty plan, then any talk about your credibility and credentials is unnecessary.

Something sure is going on. I've got a field that is tore up with running tracks from some kind of night-time chasing going on. Once the sun goes down, it must be getting pretty x-rated out there. Also, tonight I was almost run down by a wild-eyed small doe that looked like she was running for her life. I waited for a buck to come through, but he most likely got side-tracked ...... probably took off after the mother. I think it's all in progress, you just have to be in the right place at the right time to actually see it. Doc

I hoped that maybe you might actually have some kind of real biology and wildlife management education or something that is actually recognized as some sort of real credentials that make your opinions worth anything more than any other armchair game manager.

The problem as I see it is that this is not the first wave of cuts in resources and personel. In fact The state has had several wacks on the DEC. I've been reading about periodic severe DEC cuts in the New York State Outdoor News for a couple of years now. Apparently they were already hurting long before this current round of cuts. I'm just not sure that the pain is being equally distributed.

Sorry, I didn't realize that we were in the presence of such a noted authority on whitetail management ..... lol. However, like wztirem, I would like to see a few relevant, verifiable, credentials, if you are going to pull the "expert" card out. I'm a little picky on just who I am taking my education from.

Yes, the topic is wandering a bit as it often will after 11 pages. However, my response was simply a response to the specific message I quoted. Doc

This has got to be tough times for DEC personel, but many of us (maybe most) have already gone through similar cuts in private industry. However for a lot of us, the cuts that we were involved with were made on merit and job-related necessary talents rather than seniority. I guess seniority is the method of choice for unionized positions. It's hard to see how this move will be beneficial to the state's resource management and conservation, but time will tell just how much damage is actually done. Doc

Lol..... yeah, and I think the DEC would have to start giving away licenses just to keep hunters afield. And all for what value?? Some temporary "feel-good" meaningless gimmick that would have to be repeated every other year or so? And then only to have theoretical half-understood results on the herd. Thank heavens these kinds of decisions are left up to the more level heads within the state agency charged with the management of wildlife instead of the average "armchair biologist". I don't feel real good about defending the DEC until I start listening to some of the ideas that come from outside that department.....lol. That always kind of puts their actual value in true perspective. Doc

I guess it might be pretty hard for the liberal press to spin that statistic ...... lol. Doc

That is something that I have noticed on these forums. A lot of people have a lot of ideas about what should be done to herd management, but base it all on what they see in their own backyard and have no concept of the conditions of other parts of the state. Some of these sweeping ideas would have disasterous effects on both the herd and the activity of hunting in a lot of areas around the state. The good news is that the people who do create and execute the management of state herds are people who are charged with the responsibility on a statewide level. They understand that general statewide management rules do actually have rammifications in all of the various habitats and existing herd conditions. That's one of the reasons we placed some actual biological education requirements on their positions. Doc

I have to wonder just what it is about having your bucks engaging in constant knock down - dragged out fights that is supposed to make the herd so much more balanced and healthy. Forcing bucks to chase all over the county to find a diminished doe population, and then having to fight themselves into a totally weakened state doesn't really seem like a way that we would really like to see our buck populataion head into winter. I have heard that a chief cause of mortality in adult bucks (other than hunting) is the fact that they undergo the rigors of rut and normally head into the winters with most of their fat reserves depleted. I would think that our efforts at trying to intensify those rigors would most likely result in higher buck winter kills. Something to think about. Doc

You still have time to check out other areas. No, it's not ideal to have to do such hurried scouting, but the info you learn about a new area right now is actually more current and useful than all the scouting you have done this past summer. This isn't the time to write-off the season. Too much good time left. You never know what you might find elswhere until you actually go and look. And yes, next year will be a whole lot more organized and planned out and most likely a whole lot more productive. But that doesn't mean that this year can't be salvaged. The very least you will accomplish is to have an opportunity to take a close look at what might turn out to be some new potentially favorite alternative spots. Doc

Well done!! And done right!

I think the one buck rule is a good one. No one is being told what kind of buck they must take. There are no ridiculous point counting or spread measurment estimations. You get your one buck and no more. How the heck many bucks does anyone need. If a hunter is all hung up on trophyism, just let the smaller ones walk until something comes along that will fit your needs...... your choice. Having to make your one tag count, will promote hunters being a bit more picky on what they shoot and perhaps turn a contentious restriction (AR) into a self disciplined choice of harvest. Sure there are probably only a few hunters that actually take two or more bucks, but I have heard a lot of guys who say they will take the first buck that comes along and then reserve their second tag for a trophy. Well, if everyone only had one buck tag, that thought wouldn't work anymore. If you want a trophy or even a possibility of a trophy, it would have to be the one and only buck that you take. (no "warm-up" bucks). Doc

Lol ...... You're probably right, but I wish there was some way of seeing some stats on that. Sure the poachers who are out there in the middle of the night with the spotlights and rifles sure wouldn't have any reason or desire to be wearing a back tag. But I have a feeling that the majority of poachers are simply hunters performing a crime of opportunity. Most likely they have no premeditated ideas of going out for the purpose of poaching but rather decide to break laws on the spur of the moment. You might be surprised just how many of the game law violators (poachers) do so dressed in normal hunting garb with their back-tag inadvertantly still stuck on their back. Doc

I suspect that an overwhelming majority or AR supporters would not go along with this idea. I think that for most of them, the antlers are the sole reason for hunting, and there's no way they would want to be told that they were restricted to does for 3 years. So what would you do at the end of 3 years, or would that one 3-year stretch be the extent of the whole program?

It's never good to have a sudden increase in the level of human activity when you are trying to bowhunt. But in future seasons, you will see the population increase. This might be a good time to explore some other hunting areas nearby that aren't quite so ripped up with activity. Get ready for some excellent hunting next year and thereafter. Doc

And a man wanting to hunt with a gun should hunt with a gun ........ so what's the point? Doc

Now that would be interesting to see what the rationale is behind those exceptions. Isn't it nice to have consistancies in the laws across the state? What a place! Doc

I am very conscious of checking the tag to make sure that the material that it is pinned through is substantial and that the pin is hooked up properly and I have had no problems with it. I also put a strip of duct tape across the access slot in the tag-holder. Since I have been wearing a back tag for 50+ years without losing it, I guess I would consider it to be a non-problem. I do think it could be extremely useful in identifying trespassers without any unnecesary confrontation demanding ID. Also, I can see where it might be useful in identifying poachers. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. One thing is for sure ...... No back tag, no ID. Doc

I have heard this claim before that some people don't need to practice. And usually that means that somebody eventually will get that call for help in tracking his rump-shot deer. I hesitate to say that it is impossible to be gifted to that extent in archery, but I have to say that I am always skeptical (to put it in "friendly" terms ..... lol). I think I would put such thoughts definitely in the category of over confidence. Doc