Doc

That is not surprising. And when they say "public safety personel", you don't suppose they are including insurance people in that do you? On their website, they termed this as some kind of "motorist's" interest Unless AAA has a rep, I would interpret that as insurance interests. And perhaps "forest property owners" might just be the lumber industry. I wonder how they feel about deer? Resource based businesses? ....... well who knows what kinds of anti-deer interests might be represented there. That's exactly my point, there are an awful lot of people eligible for these CTFs that would be quite happy if there were no deer at all. The only hope is that the hunter representatives have a huge persuasive personality that can steer decisions in the negotiation part of the process toward the pro-deer side of things. But the big objection that I have against the whole process is that it introduces such things as financial interests, politics, and public opinion in something that should really be based on sound biological management principles. Just where does habitat quality and availability get factored in and other factors that used to be considered when setting the goals and limits. I don't know, maybe I'm being a bit too biased (and I know I am), but it seems to me that somebody let the foxes take over the administration of the henhouse and even invented a process for them to do so. Doc

I guess I really don't understand what the big hurry is for reporting kills. Why do they have a 48 hour deadline right now. I'm not even sure why they would make it a 7 day deadline. Frankly, I would set the deadline at the end of the season. Nobody uses the info prior to then anyway. In fact, with their reliance on their "calculated harvest reporting rate" I would think that harvest reporting deadlines would be the least of their concerns. Doc

I'm afraid that I am not much of a fan of the CTF system. It seems like a part of the deer management system that apparently has a huge influence on harvest and deer density targets that has absolutely no element of science involved at all. The whole thing is based on how the different parts of the public feel about the deer levels. As I look at the various "stakeholders", I am struck by the number of them that involve "anti-deer" financial disciplines vs. the pro-deer stakeholders. I am also aware that when the final discussions happen, the whole thing turns out to be a negotiating process which naturally lends itself to overwhelming influence by those of stronger personalities. That really doesn't seem to be anything that belongs in wildlife management. I agree that public concerns should be solicited and taken into consideration, but they should not be implemented as a part of the official decision making process. That's what we pay the DEC for doing, and we expect the process to be free of emotional and unscientific inputs. Doc

I'm convinced that the whole trick is getting yourself mentally ready to quit. I had tried a few times before, but was not quite convinced that I HAD to do it. This time, it really wasn't all that hard because somehow I developed the attitude that I HAD to do it. Did the Chantix do it's job? ..... or was I just finally ready to quit anyway. I'll never know. But the Chantix did provide a confidence builder that probably helped in some fashion. Anyway, I'm glad another person has taken up the committment to quit ....... Good for you!

One thing that would really improve the system would be if the recording (computer) would repeat back the info that you just gave it as a verification that everything did indeed go through and was interpreted correctly. That could be followed up by a yes or no response from the hunter. I have used other automated systems that do this and it does serve as a second chance to correct info that was erroneously interpreted by the computer.

I quit 2/18/08. I used Chantix. I'm not sure whether to credit that stuff or the fact that I was just plain ready. A little wheezing at night and coughing up some real nasty looking stuff, and having had stroke 8 years earlier kind of helped. But you know, even today I still get a pretty powerful urge at times to have another cigarette. Of course I know better, but it is amazing what a heavy-duty, entrenched, long lasting addiction that is. Of course doing something like that for 48 years, it's no wonder that it had such a strong grip on me.

That's pretty expensive.

I will say one thing for the drives of the good ol' days. They sure did get the deer up and moving and keep them up. That may account for the fact that there used to be so much more shooting going on back then. The most popular driving days occurred after opening day. That is the time when now the season seems to go absolutely dead these days as far as shooting is concerned. Doc

One word .............. EXPENSIVE ! I know it's a lot more expensive than regular wood, but you would never have to replace it or worry about breaking down through it after a couple years. The stuff is "forever" isn't it? I know that if I were going to all the trouble of hauling all those materials into the woods, dangling around in the trees assembling and building one of those things, I probably would want it to be there for as long as I might want to use it. Of course I am not envisioning building a condo up there. I am talking only about a hunting platform. How expensive could that be? Doc

I remember back in the old days, huge organized drives were very common. Apparently hunters have gotten a bit smarter (at least in my area). They don't seem to be as prevalent as they used to be. They used to shoot anything that was alive in the thickets. I do remember getting caught in the middle of one of those things. I just hugged the ground and hoped they would get by real quick. I remember hearing some of the drivers doing some of the shooting. Not a real safe situation. Doc

Is that legal to use 4x4s to do drives? Don't I remember somewhere reading that it is illegal to take game with the aid of motorized vehicles or am I just wishing I had seen it somewhere .... lol. Doc

I have been involved with drives in my younger days, but long ago quit doing what most people think of as drives. I do still occasionally do a short push to my brother-in-law as a kind of two man drive. However that looks more like one guy still-hunting toward the other than anything you would really call a drive. I have concerns about the safety aspect of a lot of the more traditional drives. Most often they involve fast moving deer and even running deer which I don't shoot at even in non-drive hunting situations. I realize that if drives are properly organized, and the participants are super safety minded individuals, there is nothing about a drive that should be unsafe. However, that's entirely too many "ifs" to suit me when it comes to the possibility of slugs flying in my direction.....lol. The other thing that has soured me on drives over the years is the feeling that hunting for me is a one man activity, and any deer that I harvest, I want to be the result of my own personal initiative, skills, and abilities. Hunting successes resulting from gang activity really doesn't do a lot for me anymore. Doc

Why aren't you guys using that plastic/wood decking material? it seems like a stand made out of that stuff would be virtually indestructable ....... FOREVER! Doc

In my case, there is no shortage of local needy families that can use some extra protien in their diets. I have always tried to see that one of those local families that I have gotten to know get some of mine. I know it helps them out. On the other hand, the Venison Donation Coalition is a very good hunter activity that provides some very high visibility P.R. for hunters and hunting, and is probably a better way of utilizing excess venison than the kind of thing that I do. The problem is that the recipients of my excess venison really do look forward to it and really have a need for it, so there is no way that I can stop doing it now in favor of the government sanctioned program. Doc

Once again, we are very lucky to have the NRA in our corner.

I have seen other examples of the same thing. They didn't involve kids, but the same point was demonstrated. Actually, when you think about it, it's not really all that surprising.

If lead bullets were banned, what is the alternative material?

That sort of a thing is only a problem if you exhale. ...... There's the solution. ;D

There is one thing you will never hear me say about government fees, taxes, etc. That is, "gee those fees aren't so bad, I could afford a lot more". As soon as you say that ...... POOF! ...... you instantly are paying more. Also, do not assume that everyone has the financial situations that you have. Not everyone is buying a new Matthews or a new 300 Weatherby. If we are going to worry about hunter numbers as in the first part of your message, we can not turn around and say that adding to the fees to hunt is just peachy. It is a known fact that the government can impact behaviors through taxation. If you don't believe it, just ask anyone who has quit smoking recently just what it was that finally made them quit. You want to eliminate something, tax it. If that doesn't do it, tax it some more. That same principle can also apply to hunting. People are not a bottomless well of resources and every time fees go up, somebody out there is making that tough choice in priorities to decide what has to be cut. You are right to point out that everything required for hunting is going up, and in most cases, at a ridiculous rate. That is just one more reason to try to keep the lid on government increases. With everything going up, something has to give. I believe the sliding hunter numbers is part of the proof of that. My take on it all is to make the government struggle for every penny of increase. Certainly never sit back and invite them to raise fees by saying "gosh I could afford a lot more". They really don't need that kind of encouragement. They think of enough of that sort of thing on their own. Doc

My dieting is a year around thing now. I do a carb-counting routine to control a diabetic condition. That doesn't mean I am always successful ....... lol. I do try to get some form of extra exercise daily, usually in the form of walking. But then that's nothing new. I have always done that. Doc

My brother-in-law from Thunder Bay Ontario, Canada took some seeds from some Wolf River apples out of our old ancient orchard and sprouted them. His trees are getting huge and are bearing apples now, so yes they can be grown from seed. However, more to the point of your question, I must admit that I have never seen a bunch of seedlings growing under an apple tree. So I'm not sure about natural propagation. I'm not sure. I have to admit I have come across some pretty domestic looking apple trees in some pretty unlikely places. Doc

Yes, heaven forbid that we lose the right to be stupid. My gosh people, I am right in your corner when it comes to the protection of individual rights, and the protection of freedoms. But I've got to tell you that it scares the hell out of me when I come across some of these jerks out there dressed in full camo. There is a difference between a right to be stupid vs. trying to have an involuntary hunter assisted suicide. When someone wants to simply be an idiot and risk their own welfare, that's one thing. But when they are out there baiting other innocent hunters to become involved in a hunting mishap, that's something else. Doc

It's the one's that don't think about these things that bother me. And there's way too many of them out there. As long as I continue to be surprised by guys on heavily pressured state land on opening day that are dressed in head to toe camo (including face paint) or read about such things on this or any forum, you can count on me speaking out against such things. And if it takes graphic examples to get the point across, so be it. I understand that it's not a pleasant subject, but it's not really all that healthy to hide from it either. Doc

Yeah, it was that guy, Johnny Appleseed that brought them. I didn't know he was french ......

I once called in a buck by rattling, but he saw me about the same time that I saw him. Other than that one time, I haven't really had any luck. I have to admit though that I really haven't tried it all that much. There's something about sitting out deer hunting making gosh-awful noises that just goes against the grain with me, so I generally just sit there and use more traditional methods of hunting. I do have to admit that there have been times when my noises (other than rattling) have brought in bucks. On two different occasions, bucks have come in when I was clearing some leaves from my stand. More than likely sounded like another buck making a scrape. On two other occasions, deer have shown up while I was clipping limbs out of my shooting lanes. I'm not sure what they thought they were hearing then, but it got their curiosity going. So standing out there making a racket can produce, but it still feels like a strange way to hunt, and while I probably will try it again some day, it most likely will not become a common way of hunting for me. Doc