Doc

Ha ..... who are you trying to kid. The only thing your for is to stir up as much devisive trash as you can. That's pretty obvious. Well bring it on if that's what floats your boat. I may play or I may not. That's one feature that I really miss or at least haven't found yet. The old site used to have an "ignore feature" that would block out trolls if you wanted to. Sure would be a good thing to have here ...... lol. Doc

Can it be modified by a gunsmith??

Just noticed what looks like a pretty interesting program on wild hogs and how their numbers are exploding across the U.S. and how they are growing bigger and more aggressive. It's on the Discovery Channel at 8:00 tonight (friday). I'll be taping it and watching it tomorrow. Unfortunately most of you won't see this in time, but if you do, you might be interested in tuning in. Doc

I just though of something. I've got most of my face covered up with a beard all the time anyway. I just might have to go to a face mask. The beard is getting pretty darn white now. Doc

First of all, as I have pointed out in other posts, as long as we have special seasons we each will decide what is appropriate in those seasons. Yes, we all have opinions ..... shame on us. I believe that you have an opinion that crossbows should be crammed into bow seasons. I happen to not agree ..... so have me arrested ..... lol. The NYB happens to agree with me on that point ..... I'm glad. And guess what, I have an opinion on muzzleloaders having their own season. Well, I am still waiting for anybody to explain why muzzleloaders as currently described by law has any disadvantage when compared to a shotgun. I'm not even going to mention single shot shotguns. So based on that I have formed an opinion ..... so shoot me. Oh, and by the way I do not run the NYB so my opinions are just that ..... my opinions. Now as far as what the NYB has done for NYS bowhunters, below are some of actions, and accomplishments over the years. Perhaps if you were a member, your criticisms would be a bit more accurate and have a bit more credibility and you would not have written that first sentence of the quoted post. If you are interested enough to work your way all the way down the list, I think you will be amazed at all the activities and accomplishments that they have fought for and won for bowhunters and others. Doc -------------------------------------------------------- 1993 First Youth Camp held at Turkey Trot Acres, Candor NY. Sent members to (US Sportsmen’s Alliance) workshops to prepare the organization for the battles ahead with “anti-hunting” groups. 1997 First Physically Challenged hunt held in Savannah NY. 1998 All nine regions of NY were represented by NYB Regional Reps 2001 Created the NYB Scholarship program. 2002 First Youth hunt held outside of Syracuse NY fall 2002. 2004 Assisted in establishing a 3D archery range for the United States troops serving in Iraq. 2005 Helped form North American Bowhunting Coalition made up of state, national and provincial bowhunting organizations thereby representing tens of thousands of bowhunters. 2007 1,000 young adults have been exposed to archery and bowhunting since our Youth Camp program began. Developed the program, “Adaptive Equipment for the Aging and Physically Challenged Bowhunter”. 2008 Assisted (National Archery in Schools Program) NASP program being started in NY with money and instructor training. First “Wounded Veteran” hunt as part of our “Camo to Camo” program. 2009 Recipient of the prestigious Pope & Young Stewardship Award. Recipient of the NYS Conservation Council President’s Award. Legislative Accomplishments 1995 Gained bowhunters the use of Deer Management Permits (DMP’s) during last 10 days of the southern zone early bow season. 1996 Allowed usage of Special 2nd deer (either sex) Tag during late bow season. 1999 Added 6 more days of DMP use for bowhunters. Use of Deer Management Assistance Permits (DMAPS) during bow seasons. 2001 Added one month to Suffolk County archery-only season (from Nov 1 to Oct 1 opener). Changed definition of legal bow from “…arrow that can propel a legal broadhead 150 yards…” to a 35 lb. minimum draw weight. 2002 In May NYB helped alter DEC Conservation Fund/deer management budget which included; 2nd tag (antler-less) for archers during early & late special seasons in both zones. Can use unfilled “regular” season buck only tag as an either sex tag during the special South Zone late seasons & Sept. portion of North Zone season. Can use “regular” season tag as an either sex tag in areas restricted to longbow only hunting, including regular season in Westchester Co. and any season in Suffolk Co. Residents who purchase lifetime, big game licenses and move out of state can now purchase other big game licenses at resident fee rates. Lowered fees for junior hunters & trappers. Allow use of DMP’s for junior archers & no extra fee charged Junior archers can hunt during all the “regular” firearm seasons with either sex tag 2002 Other accomplishments achieved by Fall of 2002 included; DMP use for bowhunters expanded to the entire season. Big game hunters can consign up to two DMP’s to other hunters. Hunters who have tagged-out may continue to participate in the hunt for the remainder of the big game seasons as long as they do not attempt to shoot at another deer. Supported passage of DEC Automated License System (DECALS). Expanded use of DMAPS from 2 to 4 tags per hunter in Regions 8 & 9. 2004 Allow for use of DMP’s during archery seasons by non-resident hunters. Passage of venison donation fund bill, allowing for volunteer contribution of $1 when purchasing sporting licenses. Added approximately 2 weeks to the beginning of Westchester Co. archery-only season (from Nov. 1st to match the Southern Zone season). Expand black bear hunting opportunities in the Catskill and Allegany ranges Defeat DEC proposal for a “youth” (16 & 17 year old) firearm deer hunt on 2nd last weekend of southern zone, early archery season. 2005 Prevented DEC from placing a muzzleloader season into or before Southern Zone archery-only season. Other Legislative Accomplishments; ●Established numerous contacts with state legislators, acting as their resource on bow issues. Meeting with them on a regular basis. ●Established a working relationship with the DEC. Meeting with them on a regular basis. ●Kept the crossbow out of the archery-only seasons & areas of the state. ●Promoted the harvest of antler-less deer to assist the DEC in management objectives. ●Established urban deer management archery hunts in various parts of the state - Irondequoit, Painted Post and Albany, NY; while preserving and promoting other programs in Westchester & Suffolk Counties. ●Established legislative E-Mail Alert System. General Organization Accomplishments ● Continually fighting the anti-hunter movement. Examples; participated in a demonstration on Long Island to counter the “anti-hunters” protesting the opening of bow season. Attended a county legislature meeting where anti hunters had assembled to mislead our elected officials. ● Have opposed the “anti-hunters” attempts to promote use of contraceptives to control deer herds. ● Thousands of dollars donated to promote various hunter education programs. ● Developed “Camo to Camo” program which sends gift boxes to American troops serving in the Mid-east. To date over 500 boxes (3,500 pounds!) have been shipped! Program also sends wounded veterans on free hunts. ● Provides specialized equipment for physically challenged individuals. ● NYB has donated thousands of dollars and our members have volunteered thousands of hours to various charities throughout New York State including (and not limited to) the American Red Cross, Hunt of a Lifetime, American Cancer Society. ● Since its inception NYB has been a contributor to the NYS Venison Donation Coalition program. ● Offers opportunities for members to participate in Adopt-A-Highway Cleanup Programs and other community based projects. NYB at Work in Iraq Tupper Lake Archer and NYB Region 5 Representative, Mike Savage, spearheaded an effort to get targets and equipment donated and sent to the troops in Iraq. Mike started the project after reading a letter in the January-February issue of Bowhunter magazine, written by Major Robert Gwinner of the U.S. Army's 8th Infantry, 1st Battalion. In the letter, Maj. Gwinner stated that he was building a small bow range adjacent to his unit's small-arms practice range. He also described archery as "a good break for our soldiers." Mike responded to Maj. Gwinner by e-mail and stated that the Tupper Lake Archers wanted to donate a target and he then inquired about what other archery items the troops needed to complete their archery range. Very soon an e-mail was received with a wish list that included arrows, field tips, practice broadheads, releases, targets and other gear. Through Mike’s efforts, donations of cash and merchandise came pouring in and several packages of archery related gear found their way into Iraq. The result is a range at the forward position of a fire zone; currently home for these heroes.

I agree. I try to keep all this stuff in perspective. It's all recreation, and if I don't get a deer, we probably won't starve to death. I don't really want to turn it into some kind of marathon of endurance ...... lol. Yeah, when I get stubborn enough or confident enough, I have been known to tough it out all day. I'll be honest though, other than opening day of gun season, it has never really paid off yet. I do a lot better by hunting the morning and evening hours and usually wind up hunting a lot more intently and paying attention a whole lot more, and not trying to amuse myself in the mid-day hours with phone gadgets and magazines. I will say one thing though ..... If I didn't live where I hunt or had to drive a long ways to get there, I would be putting in way more full day hunts. No doubt about that! Doc

It looks like we are finally making good use of the courts to get the anti gunners off our back. It's about time that we learned how to use that concept instead of always being on the losing end legal system. I just hope they have adequate resources to do a good and proper job of it. It wouldn't be so good to lose a case such as this, setting all kinds of negative precedents. Doc

That's one thing I concentrated on before retiring was to develop and finance a whole bunch of interests and hobbies. Now I'm glad I did, but it seems that I am busier now than i was when I was working ..... ha-ha. Doc

So they established bait restrictions (in 2007) because of potential import of bait fish with viral hemorrrhagic septicemia. What are the meetings for? Has the disease gone away ...... probably not. I don't understand what the meetings would accomplish besides depleting some more DEC money. Unfortunately the article didn't explain the purpose of the meetings. Doc

Over here in Ontario County, I have the same concerns, but I also would like to start hunting deer with a rifle. The old 12 guage can be a pretty ornery thing to shoot, and forget about target practice. 4 or 5 slugs each year to ensure that the scope has not moved and I'm more than happy to call it quits until a deer is in front of me. I really don't like that. I would prefer to be able to spend some time playing with a gun each year before hunting, but that shotgun just won't let me. If this bill ever gets through, I'm thinking of a nice calm .243 so that I can spend hours at the bench and get the familiarity with my deer gun that I feel happier about rather than getting the crap beat out of my shoulder with the 12 guage canon. However, I am a landowner and I do have a house in a rather vulnerable spot where hunters taking a long shot (200-300 yards) across the neighboring field might just poke a hole or two in my livingroom wall. The deer have quite often snuck down the hedgerowin years past. So I never could develop a real strong opinion one way or the other. Pretty much I have just let the issue go whatever way the majority want it and I will live with whatever consequences. But we seem to have a bit of a problem getting this law through the system. Errors in wording killed it once already when it was at the Governors desk. They had another go at it which got all screwed up. Now it looks like they might have it right, but it's taking forever. I tried checking it out on the internet, but they have had this thing in and out of the legislature so many times, it is hard to tell which bill is which. It has a jillion different bill numbers and counting. So far I haven't found anything that says that it was even sent to the governor yet. But that doesn't mean that it hasn't. Any way ...... we'll see how it all turns out. Doc

Birdsfoot trefoil. I had a small field of it that I turned into a pond. The pond failed so I had it filled in. Long story short, the topsoil wound up 10 feet under and the subsoil (clay and gravel and shale) wound up on top. guess what the first thing was that grew on that crappy dirt ...... that's right, birdsfoot trefoil. I'd swear that stuff would grow on cement. Inside of two years that field was covered with it. I've seen it grow in full sun, and I've seen it grow in shade. I would guess that it would have no problem growing on those roadways. That dirt looks great compared to the stuff in my field after the pond was filled in. The deer seem to like it. They are out their grazing in that field all the time so they must not hate it. The only problem you might encounter is if they started to be randomly drawn to those roadways. depending on how long they are, that might tend to distribute the deer around the property so that you would lose any predictibility. Kind of like a huge oak woods when all the trees are producing acorns. Doc

Even that number would be be pretty hard to come by. Harvest reports do not list age, and personal observations are tough because we're sitting in the woods when most of the deer are being taken home. I'm not even sure that I could even come up with a semi-credible estimate. I just don't get to see that big a percentage of deer (dead or alive). About all I can reasonably say with a little certainty is that one year may have had more or less older deer than another, or perhaps comparisons through observations over many years about changes in age structure stated in a very vague and general way might have some credibility. But actual percentages?? I'll admit, I can't do it. Not over any period of time and certainly not any instant snapshot in time. Doc

But, I would think that if you can come up with a load that can pull off "1000 yard shots that would out do any centerfire that was ever made", it seems that such a load and even a lot less potent loads would still have plenty of knock-down power at 200 to 400 yards to instantly turn the lights out on a british soldier, wouldn't it? Again, I really have no knowledge of these weapons and that is why I am asking. I see these shows on Discovery Channel or National Geograpics channel or the History Channel, and they always leave me wondering how much is actual fact, and how much is folk-lore passed off as fact. I figured the guys who actually use these things would have a pretty good idea whether this particular show was embellishing the facts a bit or not. Doc

It sounds like the only thing on your list. Try picking up a little interest in hunting ..... lol. Worried? That's probably not the right word. I am a bit puzzled that your only interest on this forum seems to be a topic guaranteed to drive a wedge between hunters. I just wonder if that isn't more of the motivation than any actual interest in crossbows. Like I said before, this "johnny-one-note" fixation that you have going just seems a bit weird to me. I like a good controversy as much as anybody, but I try not to let it become everything that I am capable of talking about or thinking about. Lighten up a bit. There's more in life than just crossbows. Try expanding your interests just a bit. It'll make you feel better ..... lol. Doc

It just occurred to me that the answer to this question would vary greatly depending on the time of year. Right after gun season, the percentages would be a lot different than just before season ..... right? That is if there was a reliable and credible way of getting at those numbers. My guess is that very thorough harvest data with a whole lot of in-depth analysis is about the only way that you could even take a stab at figuring that all out. Doc

Actually, any time there is a muzzleloading season in process, I do wear blaze orange. It's no different than a shotgun season, just fewer participants. I don't worry about it too much during bow season, because I don't believe there has ever been a case of a bowhunter accidentally shooting another hunter, thinking he was a deer. The range and nature of a bow doesn't really lend itself to that kind of longer distance mis-interpretation of the target. Also, the nature of an arrow is such that if a target is so obscured that you can't tell the difference between a hunter and a deer an arrow is not likely to get far enough to do any harm. My feeling is that if someone gets killed with an arrow and a claim of target mis-identification, the authorities better start opening up a homicide investigation .... lol. Doc

Great pictures! Aren't they such a pretty bird ....... a face only its mother could love .....lol. That's funny, but I can't remember ever seeing one of those critters back when I was a kid. I don't know whether I just wasn't paying attention, or whether they just never came this far north back then. Doc

yea Doc, once again your way off target, if you haven't noticed the crossbow threads are the ones generating most of the interest on this forum with hundreds of replies, and yes Doc most of them being very positive. and Doc if there's so little interest in the crossbow threads why are you almost always guaranteed to be one of the first to chime in, LOL, No, I am just noting that of the 35 messages you have posted here, all but 5 of those were pushing your agenda of crossbows. It seems that you have some sort of fixation, and almost nothing else about hunting that interests you. Now as each crossbow topic dies off, you are frantically scampering from forum to forum feverishly trying to fill them up with your little crossbow rantings to keep your only avenue of interest alive. I just thought it was a little weird is all. Doc

That's some darn good shooting. That's not the accuracy that I understood the primitive versions of muzzleloaders were capable of. That's getting pretty close to shotgun accuracy. In fact, given iron sights and shooting off-hand, I probably couldn't do as well at 100 yards ...... but then I never was worth a darn shooting off-hand.....lol. Doc

By the way, thanks to those that have posted pictures of their groundstands. We never do get a chance to see all the different approaches and constructions. Next chance I get, I will take some pictures of some of mine. My stands are not quite as complex as some of the ones pictured here. Generally speaking. I try to find a large tree, clump of trees, or some major "blowdown" as the framework, and then just pull up dead logs to construct a wall (taller than head high) that I can stand behind. The trail that I am watching is 20 yards or less on the other side of the wall. As a rule I sit in a position where I can see up and down the trail, and as soon as I see the first flicker of brown , I am out of my seat and in tight against the wall, getting ready to draw my bow, and then waiting with bow drawn for the deer to pop out the other side of the wall. The system works well except for when the deer comes from a direction that is unexpected. With bucks that happens quite often......lol. Another difficulty arises when I am standing there with bow at full draw and the deer gets side-tracked with some browse or an acorn or something, or just stops for a minute looking around. It's amazing how heavy that draw weight can get and how fast the arms start shaking. The ugly part is that as soon as you give up and collapse the draw, that is when he starts moving again and zips right across the shooting lane. But then that's what makes all that stuff so exciting. Anyway, thanks again to all that posted groundstand pictures. I'd like to see more of them. Doc

I think that as long as there are "special weapons" seasons, there will always be differences of opinions as to what belongs in those seasons and there will always be those that want to push and force themselves into those seasons, and there will always be organizations who do their best to protect the seasons of their members against the encroachment of inappropriate weapons. That's what they are supposed to do. Some people call it shooting themselves in the foot, others call it doing their job. If you want to test out that theory, just see what kind of hell you would start if you suggested that muzzleloader season be opened up to shotguns pistols and rifles. I've got a feeling that the NYMLA would all of sudden become quite exclusionary and darned vocal about it too even though there is no real justification anymore for a special muzzleloader season. Doc

Dawn to dusk is a long time, and as I said, I can do it on specific days of high hunting pressure. But man, I will tell you that I get awfully bored if too many hours go by without seeing something (even deer that I don't intend to shoot or one that doesn't offer a shot). Seeing a deer somewhere around my stand can help extend my stay, but when nothing is moving, and I am not hearing any shots anywhere, and I know that most of the hunters have charged out of the woods at 9:00 am or earlier to eat breakfast (or have already gone home), It gets impossible for me to tough it out for too many hours. I guess I am lacking in adequate mind games to stay motivated when every sign, sound and sight tells me that I am sitting there alone in the woods and the deer have already been put in a nocturnal survival mode that will not be disturbed unless I do it. There is nothing more boring than the hunter sitting here and the deer bedded there...... all day long. Doc

Oh man, that's mighty cold! Human life is held mighty cheap these days. Doc

Certainly, there are incidents where guys dressed in blaze orange get shot. It's hard to imagine, but we know it happens. I also will agree that even when guys in camo are shot, there usually has been some carelessness occuring with irresponsible shooting. However, in that second case, there most likely is shared responsibility with the victim contributing to the shooting. Here is something that always is rumbling around in my mind. We have this nice saying about being absolutely sure what's behind whatever we are shooting at. Well, in my estimation the only way you can abide by that is to do all your shooting on a certified rifle range where all vegetation in front of the target is removed, and a huge earthen backstop is provided behind what you are shooting at. All rod & gun clubs recognize this as the only way to be sure of what is behind the target and have spent great amounts of money and effort to create that kind of safe shooting area so that they can abide by the rule of, "always ensure that the area behind the target is absolutely clear". But, given the quality of todays camo patterns and colors, on just about any shot taken by any hunter, there is a possibility that some jerk could be hunkered in the background, dressed completely in some of that super-effective camo and be absolutely impossible to see. We've all seen the TV ads that show how totally a hunter can blend into a chunk of woods, and by golly the stuff really does work as advertised. So if we are really serious about being absolutely sure of the background behind the deer we are about to shoot at, we had better be doing all our hunting at the local rifle range. Obviously that isn't very practical, so there has to be some effort expended by all hunters to make themselves appear as obviously as possible as something human that shows up well in the woods. So, there is at least some reasonable responsibility in terms of how much precaution we take when dressing for safety. As far as I am concerned, the very least effort that satisfies that responsibility is to wear adequate blaze orange. Failing to do that is not only dumb, but it is irresponsible and very well can lead to an accident that can claim as it's victims not only the one shot, but the rest of the life of the shooter. I personally would like to see that responsibility written into law. Doc

I always suggest that any inquiries that you make regarding hunting legalities, try to get it in writing ..... email works good. And try to get names. A telephone call just doesn't provide any proof that you were told what you think you were told. When the time comes that you have to try to prove what you were told, everybody will suddenly develop a lapse in memory.....lol. Doc