Doc

Our County (Ontario) has submitted a bill to the NYS legislature relative to allowing the use of rifles in the lower part of Ontario county. Actually it has gone to Albany s few months ago. I know the process is slow because we have unsuccessfully tried it a couple of times already. My question is: has anyone heard how this bill is progressing. Another question is: does anyone know of a web-site that assists in tracking these bills. I'm sure there is one, but I havent found it yet. Doc

I am just hoping that the DEC is using these experimental AR areas as proper laboratories, and are keeping adequate records to establish just what is working and what is not working. It's nice to have anecdotal observations, but nothing will ever replace actual gathered hard data. I am not just talking about data relative to buck numbers and age structure, but also data relative to how hunter participation has reacted. I make no predictions as to what such data might show, but I sure hope that the data is being collected and analysed. There's a lot more involved here than just arbitrarily slapping on some regulations as I have noted in past replies. Doc

I have never been in that shop and ever found anything that I was after. They stock the store in a real goofy fashion, and really look like a half -hearted operation. Kind of like they really would rather not be in business. I finally got totally disgusted with them a few years back and haven't stopped there since. No point ...... they never had anything I needed anyway. I assume that they haven't improved any, and from the sounds of your story, apparently they haven't. Doc

I expect that an overwhelming majority hunt mainly from treestands, but I just thought it would be intersting to see how the percentages break down among our members. Actually, I just wanted to try out the "poll" feature.....lol. Doc

Any time in September. Doc

It is occurring to farmers and other landowners that their land really is a valuable resource that has potential for making money. Even here in NYS, leasing is becoming a pretty good chunk of money for whoever owns the land. I have even seen some large tracts of land bought with the idea of first logging it and grabbing off the lumber money and then leasing it for some pretty big bucks to deer hunters. It is beginning to be looked at more as pure investment than simply as a supplemental source of extra spending cash. We can look at this as greed, but in reality, it is simply market forces at work. We have watched it happen in other states, and now it is happeneing here at home. So what's really happening? ..... A few hunters with deep pockets can tie up hundreds of acres, which basically means that you have fewer people hunting that land than ever before. As that kind of thing spreads, those that aren't leasing are having a much harder time finding hunting land, and are over-crowding the ever-diminishing open lands. That basically creates a bigger demand and allows landowners to ratchet up the lease prices. Also, owners of those lands that were formerly "open hunting" are becoming aware of the money that they are losing and begin demanding payment for access. Whose fault is it? I think it's our own (the hunters) fault. We hunters pay the big bucks as we try to lock up hunting land for ourselves. Then we advertise the fact through our TV hunting shows. Landowners would be absolute fools if they didn't see all this stuff going on and try to cash in on it. Let's face it, they paid obscene prices for the land and the state and local governments are stealing obscene amounts of tax money from them simply because they bought the land. No wonder they are looking for ways to recoup some or all of that outflow of cash. And by the way, I believe that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg as more and more landowners are finding out exactly how much hunters are willing to pay for hunting access. You ain't seen nuttin' yet! Doc

Here's something I have always wondered about. We do not have AR, but our deer population has been coming up considerably for the last few years. As expected, with the over-all herd up, the buck numbers are also correspondingly up. Also as you might expect, with the buck numbers rising, a certain percentage of them are growing to an older age. Consequently, we are seeing some better racks than we did a few years back when the over-all deer population had been hacked down by excessive permit numbers. I'm thinking that if AR had been implemented a few years back, I would be explaining all this with comments about how AR is working. However, the fact is that it is simply normal cyclical factors of habitat, weather, and harvest that is working its normal expected magic. It's the sort of thing that I have seen cycling back and forth over the decades. There are so many things that impact deer herds. I'm not saying that is what is going on in the areas where AR has been implemented, but I'm just saying that everything is not always what it appears when you are going simply by general observations over a couple of years. Doc

For decades, we used to butcher our own deer. I never really cared for the job, but we did it anyway and did a pretty good job of it. Well, now I'm a bit older and a bit more lazy. So now I let someone else do it. My deer processor does a very professional job and also has what is needed for making up some of the processed meat products like sausage and some cold-cuts, etc. Yeah, it all costs more money than I wish it would, but there is something real nice about dropping off a deer and picking up bags of meat a couple days later. Doc

I think that is the way I feel about the whole subject. AR is just not a real heavy-hitter on my list of priorities. I really don't think that is even close to being one of the biggest deer management problems that we have in NYS. Maybe when we get some of the basic deer management techniques working well, I might get a little more concerned about such secondary issues. Until then, it simply is not worth the hassle that it is causing. Doc

I'm thinking that mobs of hunters in the bowhunting woods (similar to gun-hunter numbers) would cause all kinds of disruptions and interferences in your hunt. Pre-season scouting would be destroyed by pattern-shifting hunter movement. Success would be more of a result of deer fleeing other hunters rather than well executed planning, scouting, and counting on habitual patterns of an undisturbed herd. Of course for those that own, post and control hunter densities on their own land, there would be no effect. Obviously, they would just offer less permissions and control the hunter numbers in that way. But I am thinking of those of us who are relegated to public land or wide open private lands where such a situation would be a much bigger problem than it already is since there is no way of controlling hunter numbers. There was a lot of comments in the thread about how other hunters can irritate you, that point specifically to the kinds of interferences that you would see increasing to negatively change the whole quality of the hunt. Hunters tramping around your stand at inconvenient times, hunters setting up stands next to you, etc. That is why I heartily agree with the comment by Fasteddie about how one of the great features of bowhunting is that there are less folks in the woods. To me that is a big factor that makes bowhunting so much more satisfying a style of hunting. It's the one big feature that allows you to use strategy instead of just counting on the luck. Doc

I wonder what bowhunting would be like if it took off and became almost as popular as gun season with a similar hunter density. It sure would be an entirely different kind of activity wouldn't it? It probably would lose a lot of appeal for me. So, I fully agree with your comment about liking the fact that there are "Less folks in the woods during archery season". That is a major part of the quality of the bowhunt. Doc

Well, it looks like something that a well equipped hunter should have in his pack. I'll be keeping my eye out for it. Thanks for the demo. Doc

Ha-ha ..... That also means that we are getting closer to winter with bone-chilling temperatures, and slick roads, and snow storms with snow measured in "feet", and months and months of stark, gray skies and a whole world of black and white. If the warm weather months want to take their time coming to an end, that's ok with me .... lol. But unfortunately that's not the way this year is going. It seems like the entire warm weather season is just burning away about as fast as it can. Doc

That seemed like magic. How the heck did it do that? I was pretty impressed! Doc

Is there anyone who knows what ever happened to Avon Bowmen. I was a member for several years back in the 80's. But now I don't even think they exist. In fact, I haven't heard anything about the 5 Nations Archery League. Has organized NFAA competition bit the dust in Western NY? Just curious. Doc

I don't believe I have ever seen the "Butt-out tool". How does it work? Doc

In other words, you don't have a clue either. That's alright ..... I think we're all pretty darn ignorant on the subject. That's why I started this topic. Look, such an understanding of the nature of scent is not just for my benefit. I would think that all hunters would want to know as much about the subject as possible. I would imagine that you all have had the wind switch up on you for a few minutes. Hasn't it ever peaked your curiosity even a little bit as to what potential damage that little blast of scent in an inconvenient direction was actually doing to your hunt. Has no one other than myself ever wondered what makes scent stick to things on the ground and vegetation, and just how long it actually stays there. Have none of you ever wondered just how far scent will go in extremely dense thickets. The effect of scent on hunting, makes me wonder why I am the only one who ever asks these questions about a subject so basic to hunting. What I was really hoping was that someone may have run across articles written by scent manufacturers or some of these other people who are in the business of selling scent-reduction products. If you haven't, that's alright. I haven't either. Doc

A jillion years ago, I bought a nasty old kabar knife at the National Hunting and Fishing Days event over at the Avon region 8 headquarters. It was only $5, and I was quite sure that it would turn out to be a piece of junk. The price was right so I took a chance. I have owned a pile of knives over my life, most of which were expensive name brand knives. None hold an edge like this one ....... none! I use that thing for everything including chopping off limbs and field dressing deer. I had to make one modification to it. It had both sides of the blade sharpened back for about 2". After cutting my finger with that one sharpened edge that I was not used to seeing on any of my knives, I ground that sucker down to a standard 1-edge shape. Doc

I do believe that even those that don't smoke while hunting are broadcasting their own personal scent anyway. However, the strength of the cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke is so much stronger that I have to believe that it is far more dense and reaches out further and stays together as a cluster of scent molecules longer. Also, there is a possibility that it stays attached to surrounding brush, branches and grasses much longer than the normal levels of human scent. Of course a lot of all that is pure guesswork since apparently nobody really does understand the properties and physical reactions of scent. That is why I have continually tried to get the thread on scent started on the "Deer Hunting" forum. We all think we know everything necessary about scent properties, but I really don't think we (and that is an all-inclusive "we", including professionals as well as those that make their living selling scents and scent related products) have even a basic knowledge of what exactly we are talking about. Doc

Well, nobody enjoys having a "johnny-come-lately" hunter trudging under your stand, huffing and puffing in a hurry to get to his stand, stinking with sweat right at that prime time when the deer are starting to move. On state land, that does occasionally happen. Every year state-land crowding gets worse and worse, and these sorts of things happen more frequently. Then too, there are the guys who use your stand or set up next to your stand making the assumption that you have done the scouting for them. Doc

Ha-ha..... with some of the lousy shots I have seen them make and some of the shallow arrow penetrations, it's a wonder they find them at all. They probably have some tracking dogs that they have to call in to find their deer. That's most likely what takes them so long. Or maybe they have to go get the guide to secretly use his rifle to finish them off. Doc

So, none of the hunters on this site know anything about scent? You don't know what it is? You don't know how it reacts with terrain or brush. You don't know how long it lasts. You don't know how the weather affects it. But we all understand that it is one of the most important things relative to the success or failure of the hunt. How can that be? Doc

I think rabbits like other small game populations kind of go in cycles. Diseases and growing numbers of predators all impact those cycles. Here is something that I have wondered about. Hawks are totally protected as are all of the birds of prey, and it seems to me that every year there are more and more of them. Have they gotten to the level where they are impacting the cycles of small game. I know that rabbits are pretty much a delicacy for hawks, and it would stand to reason that a higher hawk population might be a reason for the rabbits to stay on a permanent low part of what would normally be the typical cycles. I have also wondered if hawks might also be impacting grouse populations as well. I'm sure they can easily catch them. Doc

Can't do it man. I ran a trapline for years and I know the kinds of stinking, rotten, baits that worked best. It left a very firm mental block in my mind. It kind of is in the same category as possum. There would be some very nasty images running through my mind if I saw either one of those on my plate ....... lol. Doc

Frankly, I wouldn't be too upset by an article that has obvious slanted reporting going on. It's not the first time that editorial comment has slipped into supposed "unbiased news reporting". Doc