Doc

If you don't have credible harvest reporting, how can you have a credible deer management system. We all know that harvest reporting is something that most hunters do only if it is convenient or only if they feel like it and most just plain don't do it. Even the DEC seems to admit that when they conjure up their "reporting rate" out of bits and pieces of field sampling. I'm going to repeat from long ago, the plan that I have proposed to anyone who will listen (including the DEC) that would get nearly 100% compliance with the mandatory harvest reporting laws. We got new people and a new forum, and a bunch of time has passed so I figured it was about time to see what everybody thinks of it today. First of all, you change the law so that every tag requires a report whether a deer was taken on it or not. Then we start using all the computerized data to make sure that everyone complies. First of all, the DEC computers know every license and permit that has been issued ..... right? It's in the computer already. That system exists already. Today harvest reports are done with computers whether it is the telephone computerized system or your own P.C. That system exists already. Now all Albany has to do is to do a data sort on tags issued, and harvest reports received and out pops all those that did not comply. That's a very simple software manipulation. So far not a single DEC hand has had to touch any data. No high-paid biologists running around from one meat processor to another or checking in on taxidermists, or running anywhere soliciting info to come up with this questionable "reporting rate". No expensive hand feeding all the data that they come up with manually into computers. No assumptions, estimates or guesstimates or factors or constants or potential errors due to data manipulation and analysis. Already money from the cash-strapped DEC has been saved. Put those guys back to work doing something more productive. OK, so now we have a list of non-compliant hunters. So what do we do with it. Automatic mailings go out explaining the fines or punishments for continuing not to comply along with a hard deadline. Punishments and fines are up to the DEC to figure out (hey, I can't do it all ..... lol). The letters give a phone number for contact if a hunter feels there's been some error. That phone number would be to a "real person", who can straighten out any problem or simply take the data then. If the hunter ignores the warning, then the fine and/or punishment go into effect. Make the fine or punishment adequate, and believe me there will be no more non-compliance. That's it. It's that simple. It may not be 100% perfect but it sure is better than the total non-cooperation of hunters is supplying today and takes no magic hocus-pokus statistical gymnastics to try to figure out how many reports are not coming in. OK, where is the problem with all that? So far I haven't heard one criticism that would indicate that this system would be worse than what we have right now. Doc

Phone books do not indicate possessions, hobbies, or pastimes. Doc

Actually, the jury is out as far as how effective they really are. You really don't see a whole lot of guys using them do you? If they were all that effective, you would see them on every bow, kind of like nearly every rifle and shotgun and crossbow have. I had one for tournament shooting years ago and it was pretty good in well lit shooting ranges and indoor ranges. Nothing like a rifle scope by any stretch of the imagination, but it did help somewhat. Needless to say it never went on my hunting bow. They are not the multi-optic, gas-filled, light gathering scopes that are commonly used on rifles, shotguns and crossbows or even close. Another thing if you can imagine it, just think of the difficulty of trying to keep a bow steady enough to use 8X magnification. It's not like you can drop down your bi-pod or get down into a prone position, or bench rest your bow on a downed log or something .... lol.

I believe I did speak about that when I said, "As far as instinctive shooting, either traditional bows or compounds can be shot that way as well as both can be outfitted with sights, so there is no difference there either." We used to have a category in NFAA competition called "Bare Bow" which was basically instinctive and most guys were using compounds when I was involved. By the way, I watched an exhibition shooter over at Creekside Gun Shop who did include an instinctive exhibition with a compound. Also I might add that sights on recurves are not exactly odd or rare. Doc

There probably is a particular time of day when it is more dangerous to be walking into your stand. That time of first light when all you can make out is shadows and movement is probably the best time to be sporting the brightest light you can get .... Ha-ha. That has to be the time when these guys that like to jump the gun are most likely to try to blow your head off thinking (hoping) that you are a deer. You're right, the best thing to do is get on stand early in the dark, or wait until there is plenty of light. That in-between time is pretty darn hazardous. Doc

For quite a few years, traditional archery was the only way I hunted. I've done both and for a lot of years. What I found out was that both traditional and compounds require the same dedication to shooting form and execution. The compound is easier than traditional only because of the let-off. Every other shooting feature is identical. Consistancy in anchor, draw length, back tension, bow arm position, stance, sight picture, muscle alignment in both arms, Hand position and bow grip, follow-through, hand torque control, and a whole pile of mental control features are all required in order to shoot any bow. Longbows, recurves, and compounds all require the same disciplines. There are a few features about traditional equipment that are actually superior such as the light weight of the bow, and overall reliability. As far as instinctive shooting, either traditional bows or compounds can be shot that way as well as both can be outfitted with sights, so there is no difference there either. Releases for both can be mechanical or fingers. Let-off is the absolute only positive difference. And if you're a finger shooter, let-off is a negative in terms of achieving a consistant crisp release. It also can be a negative in terms of follow-through and torque. So yes each type of bow requires exactly the same disciplines as far as successful accurate shooting. Those of us who have spent years shooting both understand that. Doc

The whole whitetail management system relies on numbers. The harvest numbers, determine the antlerless permit numbers. As best as you can determine through observation and logic, and considering the data aquisition methods, what's your opinion as to how accurate those numbers are? In your area do they have it about right? Doc

Relative to whether I trust the DEC numbers or not ....... I do not. I will start another thread that involves that topic. I think it's an interesting question. Doc

I used walnut shells and it seemed to work good. They came out as shiny as new brass. I've never tried the corncob stuff but I'll bet it works just as good. The only problem I had was that I had to do an extra careful inspection because sometimes the media would get stuck in the case. Doc

Well sits.... I see that you finally took my advice and tried a post or two that isn't your same old tired "We need crossbows!! .....We need crossbows!!". This is a fairly lame topic, but I will at least give you credit for trying to show you have something of interest besides crossbows. Hoo-ray for you! Keep trying, you'll get the hang of it. Doc

By the way, everyone keeps talking about crossbows for the infirm like there is no physical effort in using them. That 150 # or so still has to be cocked doesn't it? And also I keep hearing about how heavy they are and how awkward. It seems like those that are pushing crossbows have the longest list of why they are a foolish choice of weapons and how difficult they are to shoot. But anyway, it would seem to me that anyone having physical difficulties with their bow might better go get one of those 99% let-off bows that Steve is always talking about. Of course for some reason I have never seen one for sale locally and there is some reason why that particular let-off feature has not been adopted by almost all bow manufacturers. I don't think it is a hot seller .... lol. Also since he and others are always talking about how easy it is to shoot compounds, I'm still trying to see why anyone who is physically challenged would even want one. Frankly, when I get in that condition, assuming I can still even get around, I will most likely opt for the smarter choice .... a gun. Doc

Actually, to a lesser extent, I have also heard the same kind of changes on private lands in our valley and hilltops. There seems to be the traditional craziness of opening day or at least opening half-day and then it gets real quiet for the rest of the season. It's kind of like hunting only holds the interest of these guys for a few hours and then if nothing happens they all go home. That is a massive change from the 60's and 70's and some of the 80's. I remember you could actually track the progress of a buck across the woods by the shots. The woods was thick with hunters and when they got cold, they didn't go home, they simply got up and started still-hunting. That kept the deer moving throughout the day. And yes, the weekdays were quite quiet, but every weekend was another big day. Thanksgiving morning is not the big day that it used to be either. Something is really changing. Doc

My hunting area is not very typical in that we have had an unusual growth of non-hunting land use on the state land which comprises the main part of my hunting turf. The land no longer gets the summertime rest that it used to, and there is year around human presence on the land. Bikers, and hikers have established trails everywhere and they use them throughout the summer. So there are changes occurring in terms of where bucks feel safe. I also think that some of those safety areas can be changed by any small change in biker/hiker patterns. so it probably should not be to surprising that rut signs move from one year to the next now. I am still trying to adjust to all this activity and it's causing a lot of confusion. I suppose the deer are adjusting and confused too. Doc

Yeah, I'm an old one-eye squinter. And I too have that occasional super-flinch. Maybe I'll try your fix. It is a gosh awful mental disease that can really disrupt a good shooting session. It doesn't happen very often, and never happens when I am shooting at a deer. But man, it can be a nightmare on target shooting. The fix that I have always heard is to stand close to the butt (so you can't miss), close both eyes and practice shooting. It never worked for me, but that's what the coaches all recommend for target panic. My problem is that I never know when it's cured because it is not a regular thing. It always comes back when I least expect it. I'll try shooting with both eyes open just to see what it's like. Maybe that's the kind of thing that will change the "sight picture/mental reaction". Doc

Yup!!!! That's the one. I knew it was a Jan....something. That thing has paid for itself a long time ago. I know a lot of people head for the pro-shop to have every wounded vane replaced. Or like Fitzy said they just keep shooting them that way. I don't have to do any of that. I just fix them myself. Doc

I would have bought that one if they had offered it. I still have to buy my bow license every year because that wasn't included. They had no old geezer bargains on the lifetime bow licenses and I'm pretty sure that I would never get my money's worth if I paid the big bucks for it now. Doc

Have you ever had another hunter go skulking by your stand right at that perfect time in the afternoon when you expect to see that buck that you have been scouting. They usually come right from the direction that you were figuring the buck would be coming from. Nobody's fault, but it is irritating. :-\ Doc

Dirty little bugs!!! Actually, we aren't having a whole lot of luck with ash trees anyway. I'm not sure what's been getting into them over the past couple of decades, but they aren't exactly the picture of health around our area. They get up to 10" or so and next thing you know they're dead. I wonder if these critters might move on to some other variety of trees when the ash trees are gone. Anybody know? Doc

I think it's a real good idea. There seems to be a couple of people here who are craving the use of crossbows, so why shouldn't they have a place to discuss their favorite weapon. They can talk about bolts and stocks and stuff. Doc

It's kind of like a Shoppers Guide for crooks looking for specific weapons to steal ...... eh? A burgular's shopping list ..... lol. From the article in the New York Outdoor News, it sounds like a lot of fancy computer work was used to hide the originator of the internet posting. I think we know it is something done by one of the many anti-gun groups. It's just a question of which one. It's just some more harrassment techniques by anti-gun zealots. Unfortunately it was aided by the stupidity of the government policies.

Oh horror of all horrors!!!! This surely a sign that the world is coming to an end ..... lol. :'(

The best thing is that it is data that is relevant to the exact land that you hunt and not something based on theories and facts from miles away or as average data on average land. And you can customize it to suit whatever information you want to gather and analyse. The other good thing is that it takes the burden off your memory. Everything is written down and organized. When you talk about hunting conditions in your own hunting area, there is the confidence and credibility that you know exactly what you are talking about. All you have to do is look it up. Yes it takes a bit of time, but it is time that is spent doing something interesting. Doc

Dave- Do you have any state land near you? Sometimes that can work out well a trapping territory as long as it isn't over-run with people and their pets. Doc

Maybe there are some trappers from NYC that could cast a little light on this, but my impression would be that the trapping opportunities there would be very limited. I'm not from NYC and in fact was only there once in my life, so I could be completely wrong on that. One thing to also keep in mind is that the law says that you have to visit all traps at least every 24 hours, so if you have a massive commute to get to the trapline, that might be a hardship. That's all the bad news. Now....The good news. As far as having your own land to trap on, I would guess that an overwhelming percentage of trappers use other people's land and public lands as their trapping territories. In fact I have read quite a few articles where people use their cars to cover their traplines, making sets in culverts and ditches that are along side the road. So, you don't have to own hundreds of acres to trap. Trapping techniques like anything else is always easiest to learn if there is some experienced person to teach you. But, trapping is also one of those things that is quite easy to start learning from a book. And most of the tips and techniques can be picked up simply by observing the critters and their sign that they leave behind. I would suggest that you go to a well-stocked magazine store and pick up a copy of Fur-Fish-Game. They are usually filled with all kinds of trapping articles. Also, there is always a full page ad that advertises trapping books. I highly recommend these books as basic primers for trapping. A lot of them are exactly the same as I used years ago (55 years to be exact). They were written by some guys that really knew their stuff. I'm sure there are other books available too in other places. By the way, one of those books that I mentioned has to do with tanning fur. It's kind of a one-stop shopping all in that magazine. Also, they have regular reports on fur prices and a jillion ads for traps and supplies so you can rough out prices for getting started. Good luck and let us know how you make out. Doc

I have seen a few years when the rut activity (rubs and scrapes) seemed to be nearly non-existant. Strangely enough, that did not mean that there were no bucks in the area. It just seems that periodically they simply won't leave any visible signs of rut. I've never figured out a pattern or reason for that. Doc