Doc

Back when I was a kid, you would see deer hanging from trees in people's yards for days. It was the common thing. Often they hung there with the sun beating on them all day and then freezing back up at night. I remember being invited to eat some of that abused venison, and it was some pretty nasty tasting stuff. It's an embarrassing situation to sit there at the dining room table fighting back the urge to toss your cookies, and trying to be polite about it all. I can't remember whether it was any more tender, because the main memory I was left with was the disgusting flavor. Thank heavens people have gotten a lot smarter regarding treating harvested meat. And yet as recently as 2 years ago, I saw a tiny doe dangling from a tree at a neighbors a couple miles up the road, for about 2 weeks and watched it disappear a little bit each day as these people went out and hacked off a dinner each night. The thought kind of turns your stomach....lol. Doc

Depending on size, it has the look of coyote scat ....... if smaller could be fox.

Oh gee fellas ...... In the words of that great American Rodney King ..... "can't we all just get along?" I guess all the divisive language pitting hunter against hunter really doesn't come from just the bowhunters after all does it?

Lol ....... You are surprised?

Do not compare hunting conditions of the northern zone to those of the southern zone. There is no comparison. Hunter densities are no where near the same. Not only that, but simply because a bad idea has been implemented in one part of the state does not make it a good idea to stuff it into the rest of the state.

A couple of years ago we had the same thing with the demolished bird feeders and the garbage strewn up through the woods. Now the garbage is kept shut in a shed, and the bird feeder is mounted on a cable that runs from the house to a tree up on the bank behind the house. We haven't had any problems since. As far as bear aggressiveness is concerned, I think that with the increase of bear populations in areas of high human density, it is only a matter of time before there is some pretty tragic incidents. When they lose their natural fear of humans, there will be some ugly things happening. Doc

That video was hilarious! It seems like Jeff Foxworthy could do something with that little clip. Doc

What a surprise....... Have you ever seen a crossbow discussion end any other way? It seems to be a subject that hunters just can't handle. Civility seems to eventually go right out the window when the word "crossbow" shows up on a forum. It's guaranteed. Doc

hey Doc the vert compound bow was invented in the 70s, only 40 years ago and has in no way reached the end of the tracks as far as technology or performance, if that were the case we would still be driving Studebakers and flying cross country in prop planes.there will be advancements in crossbow technology and vert compound technology both, and those things will have to be delt with as we come to those bridges, 400 fps vert compound bows are just about here... I've yet to see the relevance of dates of invention to anything regarding the crossbow issue. I guess it makes good filler when all arguments have been exhausted. And believe me all arguments have been completely exhausted on this issue...... from both sides....lol. Doc

Another one who completely lost (or ignored) the whole point of the reply. Doc

Quote: "hey Doc the crossbow was invented in the 70s, only 40 years ago and has in no way reached the end of the tracks as far as technology or performance, if that were the case we would still be driving Studebakers and flying cross country in prop planes." ------------------------------------------------------------ What the heck are youy talking about? I think you are only several centuries off ..... lol. Doc

Yeah ....... That's what he said ....... a cross-gun ...... lol. look, he can call it what ever he wants to. You understood what he was talking about .... right? Doc

Actually, I never said that the repeating crossbow was on the market and I did call it a prototype. Of course once again you missed the whole point of the examples as showing that crossbow technology is still in its infancy with huge potential and as the market acceptance grows, the technological growth will make the compound advances look primitive. And as a matter of fact, I saw the video and that repeating unit worked very good and showed the future capabilities of having the frame of a stock to work off of. As far as the reversed crossbow, I don't know anything about your contention that it was done only to make it narrower. or even the contention that it is slower because of the design. And I certainly believe that it demonstrates the fact that all limits formerly applying to bows are now put on hold with that stock available to build on. By the way, I read through the new NYS crossbow legislation (this is the state that I am concerned about) and didn't find any restrictions on repeater designs. In fact there are very few design limitations at all. I understand that not everyone sees potential when they witness it, but take my word for it, that repeater shows one thing very clearly: that stock offers a whole new set of opportunities for all kinds of mechanisms and other speed increasing features. The reversed crossbow also shows that there are all kinds of physical boundaries in an actual bow that get erased when you include a stock. However, if you find it inconvenient to acknowledge the potential and the fact that crossbow manufacturers are working diligently to make some of these things and more to become reality that's ok. I understand. But I would then also suggest that you also have to deny the wild advancements that the compound historically took since the introduction and acceptance of the Allen compound bow. And if you think that the crossbow does not provide a whole new platform of developments that are not available to bows, then you really are short-sighted. But then again, like I said before, you really don't care about that stuff anyway ..... right? Doc

I don't. No real reason other than the fact that I have absolutely no control over the consistant temperatures required to do the job properly. I believe the correct hanging temperature is about 40 degrees. repeated freezing and thawing is something that is supposed to be avoided. Seldom is the weather that consistant around here. Also, there have been quite a few times (especially in bow season) when temperatures have been pretty high (could be termed "rotting temperatures....lol). I will say that I have had some venison that was claimed to have been aged which really tasted bad. I have heard of people using old refrigerators to age quartered up deer. That sounds like a reasonable way to do it. Given the right control and facilities, I would imagine that aging would improve flavor and texture of the meat. It is supposed to. Without that consistancy, I would be afraid of things going bad. Doc

I don't really go out with any specific score in mind. In fact I couldn't tell you the score of a buck if it was dead at my feet with a tape measure laying next to it. I simply look at the buck and react as to what my impression of how big the buck looks to me. If he looks "big enough", and the shot opportunity looks reasonable, I'll go for him. Doc

Green is one of the colors that deer do see. That doesn't make it a deal-breaker because it is unlikely that they know what the heck they are looking at anyway. Doc

So what kind of habitat do these guys need. Can they flourish in open areas like ag lands? Doc

Yes, just remember these days next winter when we are up to our necks in blowing and drifting white-outs. you will wish they were back. However, I have to admit that I have no use for days that imprison me to the air conditioning. It's pretty darn hard to concentrate on bow practice when you have that trickle of sweat running down the middle of your back and dripping off the end of your nose.....lol. I sure did enjoy the past week where the temps hung around 70. Doc

So lets focus on the gadgets available for "bows". When will "bowhunters" start placing limits on what is/isn't proper add-on's to their bows and still feel their "bow" is no better than a xbow? Verticle bows have the same advantages as xbows (ie: triggers, scopes, string locking mechanisms, etc.) You don't seem to care what products enhance the compound bow, nor does the NYB. So why care if xbow are allowed, especially since both "now" share the same attributes? The argument concerning xbows is based solely on semantics. You bet. When I look at some of the accessories and crazy stuff we bowhunters have hung on our bows, it's obvious that we have just about given up on the idea of controlling the crazy techno-craze that has taken place. Who could ever have imagined back in the 70's when the ugly, relatively slow Allen Compound was introduced just what was to come? No wonder the attitudes toward archery have taken a "who cares" turn. And now we have a whole new platform to accelerate those technical advances. Imagine the things that can be done with a stock to work off of. All ready I have seen video of a prototype of a functioning repeating cross bow. Also, now I have seen a crossbow that has the bow mounted backwards with a few extra pulleys mounted. What that does for them I'm not sure, but I'm sure there is some tecnical advantage that someone found. And we haven't even reached the stage where the crossbow manufacturers are raking the maximum amount of R&D money yet. But that will come and technical advances that we can't even imagine yet will follow just as surely as they did with the compound. So yes, I do worry about the whole idea of changing and re-identifying legal archery equipment both past, present, and future. And I would think that anyone who values archery as a unique sport would be equally concerned, especially since it is obvious that we are on the cusp of a whole new round of such advances at a level of acceleratiion that we can't yet imagine. We really shouldn't be surprised that the muzzleloaders are starting to try to lay claim to portions of our seasons. We no longer define ourselves as a hunting sport of skill and limitations, and now we are taking another giant step in the direction of moving archery toward the guns. Furthermore, I think the crossbow will accelerate this attitude and soften opposition to muzzleloaders moving into what has traditionally been archery seasons by stirring in a majority that no longer has any real ties to the bow. Doc

LOL....... there have been volumes written and re-written and re-written again on that subject in these kinds of forums. Obviously there must be an awful lot of people who think there is a significant advantage or there wouldn't be such a push for acceptance. Certainly the crossbow manufacturers are slolidly aligned behind the position that they are the best thing since sliced bread and never hesitate to point out all the advantages of their product. I would say that over half of the people hunting in Ohio's bow season think there are advantages since the kill numbers due to crossbows has out stripped those killed with real bows for quite a few years now. I have heard quite a few hunter-heroes on TV proclaiming the advantages of the crossbow at levels that even surprised me. The bottom line is that anyone will readily admit to the advantages of the crossbow over any vertical bow unless they are engaged in an argument over the inclusion into bow seasons and then you would have to wonder from their statements just why anybody would ever want to own one. You get this sudden turn-about. So that is a subject you will have to figure out for yourself. You will never find a resolution to that question in a forum. Doc

Do NOT kill Bigfoot!!! That might just be my neighbor. They often get confused with each other. Doc

Yes to all of the above. They are all hand drawn, hand held, BOWS that require all of the same form and mental disciplines and consistancies in order to be successfully and accurately shot. None of which applies to a crossbow. But then that is pretty obvious isn't it? Actually, I already made that same point earlier in this very thread, but thank you for giving the opportunity to repeat it (again!). It is an important point that refutes the constant distortions when it comes to compounds and those people using them as a bogus precedent to jam crossbows into bow seasons. A lot of people before us warned of this happening back when the compound acceptance arguments first took place. Who would have guessed it ......... it turns out they were right...lol. I wonder what kinds of things people of the future will try to cram into the bow season using crossbows as a precedent. But then you don't really care about that do you? Doc

I take most of that stuff but use my cell phone for any needed communications. I also carry a small folding stool, a compass, drag rope, rangefinder, rubber gloves, plastic bags, small pair of binoculars, water, toilet paper (for marking blood trails and also the more obvious use). My knife is always on my belt whenever I head into the woods. I also carry a pair of brush nippers. I'm sure there's other junk stuck in my pack that I have forgotten, but I would have to look . Doc

Lol.....The Boogey Man will get you. It's amazing how those wacky thoughts will creep into your head when walking in the dark. Can't stop them either. Funny how sometimes I don't think about any of that stuff, then other times, I can't get it all out of my mind. Yeah, you bet .... every little snapped twig or rustle in the leaves becomes a rabid 10' bear frothing at the mouth and looking for something to mangle. The human imagination is an amazing thing ..... Ha-ha. Doc