Doc

Certainly the opportunities are there to discuss all kinds of hunting. scroll down on the index page. There are forum subsections there on bear hunting, turkey hunting, small game, waterfowl and I'm probably forgetting a few. We have active threads in all of them including threads on wild boars, etc. I'm confused ...... I really don't understand the comment. What more would you like to see provided? Doc

So when are all you waterfowlers going to get out there and start thinning out that goose population. Them crazy critters are everywhere. I'm thinking I should get out there and give them a try. Seems like there's a lot of good goose dinners going to waste. You could go out there in Canandaigua and get them with a net for crying out loud. I wonder if that is a legal method of hunting .... lol. Doc

When I was a kid (yes there was a time when I was a kid), we used to have quite a few grouse around. Enough so that I did get a few. it's been a lot of years since we have had a true huntable population here in Ontario County. Yes, I still hear a few drumming every year, but the population is so low, I would feel bad actually shooting one. Woodcock have always been a bit scarce here. This past spring, I had one walking up the driveway doing that silly little wobbling dance that they do. I had to actually stop the car until he wandered off the driveway and into the thicket. Goofy looking bird. I never did see where there was enough meat on them things to warrant the cost of a shotgun shell. Doc

I keep seeing stories on TV and in the papers about bears wandering around the suburbs of Rochester. New bear seasons have opened up around the state. I take those things to mean that the NYS bear population is on the up-swing. amybe even to the point of being a problem in some areas. We now officially have a season in Ontario County, but not yet a real huntable population unless you have a coincidental chance encounter. But eventually, I am sure there will be a very huntable population here. Doc

What are the legalities of bear lure in NYS? What differentiates a lure from a bait in the minds of a CO or judge or on the pages of a law book. I have never seen that subject discussed. Doc

As hunters, we all understand the importance of scent in our success or failure in deer hunting. I dare say it might be the most important aspect of our hunt. And yet, almost everything of importance about scent is still unknown and/or unreported. Why is that??? There are a series of scent related questions that I frequently post on many different forums, and without exception, they always go unanswered. And now it is time to ask them again in hopes that someone has found a study or article that has the answers. First of all, when we are sitting in our stand and that one errant breeze blows our scent right toward the trail we are watching (even if only for a few seconds), has the brush, twigs, goldenrod and other items along that trail been contaminated for some period of time by the scent molecules adhering to them? We know our foot prints can leave a scent trail that lasts for a long time. We know that when we brush against limbs and such, we leave scent behind that animals can smell some time later. So when you get that occasional back-breeze, is it contaminating the hunting site? And if so - for how long? Second, how far in a dense thicket will scent travel? I guess we know that scent molecules stick to things as it travels along. What is the effect of dense brush on the distance that scent will travel vs. the same scent broadcast over an open field? Third, what is the actual composition and chemical make-up of scent? How does it travel? Does it eventually thin out to a point where it disappears? If so, how quickly? Is it lighter or heavier than air? What makes it stick to things? How long does it stay stuck to things? Is it a solid or a gas? What the heck is it? We all spend a whole lot of time and money combatting scent and most of us don't even know what the heck it really is. Fourth, what are all the effects of atmospheric conditions and weather variations on the movement and duration of scent. High winds, damp conditions, dead calm conditions, atmospheric pressure, rain, snow, how does all that effect the movement and concentration of scent? Has anyone ever seen a detailed documentation on the subject? Fifth, has there ever been studies that try to answer some of these questions and actually reach a scientific understanding of the true nature of scent? If so, how come nobody publishes the results. Why do we have manufacturers of supposedly scent blocking clothing and yet no publicly available documentation of the physics and chemistry of scent? We have scent distributers who you would think should have some kind of intensive background in what scent is and how it all functions, and yet no real articles on the nature of their product as far as how it works. We have people that will tell us about how a buck can scent trail a doe hours after she has come and gone, and yet no one explains the mechanics of how that is possible. So many people making their living from scent products or scent suppression and yet they keep whatever information they have about scent a carefully guarded secret. I have sat in a treestand watching my breath on a cold morning all of a sudden take a bad turn toward the trail and wonder how much of that is sticking to the grasses and brush along the trail. How come I have never read anything anywhere that either says, don't worry about it, or hang it up, you might as well leave? How come I know that scent can be a hunt-killer, but I don't know the first thing about the nature of the scent itself. So, the real question is, has anyone ever seen an in depth article or scientific study regarding the actual properties and expected movements of scent? Maybe I just don't know where to look. Doc

Ok, here's another potential aspect to large coyote populations. I pose this more as question than fact, but it is something that I have always wondered about. Most of us have seen the rather poor condition that deer are in in the tail end of winter. Many of them are just barely surviving strictly on stored body fat at that part of the year. The question that runs through my mind is what is the affect of having hungry coyotes running these deer throughout the winter and forcing the burning off of valuable calories and needed fat reserves. This also brings up the question of how many deer are killed off by this excess activity even when they elude the coyotes. In other words how many of the winter killed deer are victims of this additional strain on body resources, but are officially chalked up to simply victims of weather - starvation? Something to think about when you are discussing the impacts of coyotes on deer herds. Doc

I believe it's like the old-time maple syrup operations where they used to hang buckets on trees, only in this case they hang buckets on the back end of the does...........That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Doc

They're out there and most (maybe all) can be traced back to escapees from game farms. We had them in Bristol and they came from a defunct game farm over in Lima, I believe. A local farmer shot one that was harrassing his livestock. That from a newspaper article in the Canandaigua Messenger. I do believe that as quickly as they show up, people are shooting them. It also may be a case where there are not yet in breeding pairs and they haven't yet gotten a chance to multiply. As I understand it, once they do get a breeding population no matter how small the numbers begin, it does not take a very long time for the numbers to get to the size where you don't have to ask where they are. Doc

Yes I know, and that is something that all of us who push wearing blaze orange have to admit. I know that a popular argument for wearing blaze orange is all the descriptions that come up about how this deer and that deer walked right up to a hunter who was fully clad in head to toe blaze orange without a single sign of recognition. The implication there is that wearing blaze orange does not hamper your hunting one bit. I try not to get into that end of the argument although a lot of guys do. My take on it all is that yes, I am taking a large risk of being spotted by the deer if I have blaze orange on. But the risk has even worse consequences if I don't wear it. I can accept a risk of spooking a deer if I do wear blaze orange. I cannot accept the risk of getting a leg, arm or head blown off if I don't. So, I guess the message is that it is probably wise to avoid the deer color-blindness argument that we're often tempted into using. The argument is far too easy to debunk. For me a far more convincing argument for blaze orange is made by describing how quickly a hunter in the woods will bleed out with a huge sucking chest wound, or a huge 12 guage hole in a limb. For those that don't wear orange, I would suggest that the next deer that they get, take note of the tissue damage and imagine that on your own carcass. Man that is enough to make me want to go head-to-toe orange. I suppose it shouldn't even be necessary to try to convince anyone that blaze orange won't occasionally cost you a deer. Doc

I am a firm believer in blaze orange and believe that it should be made mandatory during gun season. However, I am going to play a bit of "devil's advocate here, because I am looking for a credible answer to a question that has been asked of me and that I have not been able to answer very well. The question is: "If deer cannot detect blaze orange, then why do bowhunters wear full camo"? Part two is: "If deer cannot detect blaze orange, why are there so many camo companies that waste tons of money developing the perfect patterns in the perfect colors"? I can understand the patterns, but why wouldn't all camo patterns be done in blaze orange or any old color? Anybody have a good answer to those questions? Doc

A big deer in NY or anywhere is one of those things that you'll know one when you see one ..... lol. I'm sure it is different to each hunter. For me it doesn't relate to any kind of score. I couldn't tell you anything about the score of any deer even if it was laying on the ground with a tape measure next to it. Fact is, I don't relate to bucks in that way. If I look at a deer and it has a certain massive look to it, that deer is to me a big deer. It doesn't even need to be a buck to impress me as a big deer. However, as far as racks are concerned, there is again just a general impression that registers with me. A rack may be heavy and massive, or have exceptional height or width, or any combination of these things and I'll tell you that my impression was that it was a big deer. Average deer? Do you mean an average that takes in all bucks, including buttons and spikes. If so, I've got to believe that the estimates that I have seen in this thread are all way too high. Either that or if we really do have a overall herd average anywhere near 100 or 130 then we don't really have any need for talk about AR? When you say average, I assume you mean a mathmatical average of all bucks in the area and that would include all those little wee runt yearlings. I think that average is generally going to come out pretty darn low unless you hunt on a game preserve with a whole bunch of trophy monsters to bring the average up a bunch. Come to think about it, how many of us can really offer much of a credible guess. I mean it's not like we have the ability to herd all the deer together and make a real honest guess.....lol. Doc

I read something once that said that all deer carry the gene for white coloration or the mottled brown and white condition of being a piebald. However the gene is highly recessive. I never heard what it is that brings that gene into dominance in some individual deer. Doc

Well, they already got your money. No need in trying to impress you now with good service ...... lol. But seriously, with all the hype about budgets and personel lay-offs and the sad shape of the conservation fund, I won't rest easy until the thing is right here in my hand. Doc

There have been so many. My first buck with a bow ranks right up there. Then there was the huge buck last year that was working me over for about 15 minutes, playing games all that time with starting to come into my shooting lane and then stepping back. Over and over he did this. He was a monster too. By the time he got done messing with me, I'm not sure I could have pulled off the shot or not. Didn't matter because he finally left without offering a shot. Then there was the doe that I could have stabbed with my arrow. She came off the trail and headed straight for the huge oak that I was standing behind. Why? ...... I haven't a clue. but she wound up on the opposite side of the tree, walking a circle around the tree while I was circling the tree on the opposite side trying to stay hidden. That was kind of a funny scenario. Finally she came to my camp stool that I had been sitting on and bolted out away from the tree about 15 yards and stood there broad-side. I had already drawn my bow before, so I just put the pin on and let go. I got her. That was some pretty exciting stuff. I always get excited when I get deer within touching distance, buck or doe. Then there was another nice buck that gave me plenty of excitement. He came in at 30 yards and stood right in one of my shooting lanes, so I took the shot. Apparently there was a twig that I hadn't removed in the lane, and I saw the arrow do a bit of a dance along the way and it ricocheted right away from what was going to be a perfect shot and flew way off to the right, He took off and was out of sight right away. Leaves were still on so he was out of sight in the blink of an eye. So after blowing such an easy shot, I threw my little tantrum and went back to hunting getting madder by the minute at blown opportunity. I only lasted about another 1/2 hour because I was so darned disgusted. So I went out to get my arrow and head home. I picked up the arrow and saw blood an hair on the entire length of the arrow. "What the ....?" I actually stood there staring at the thing in disbelief trying to figure out where the heck the blood came from. That's when a movement out of the corner of my eye caught my attention. At 15 yards, I saw a buck head rise up out of a small patch of cover and then go back down. That was when I realized that I was looking at the buck that I had shot at. Well, thinks got a little crazy there as I fumbled with another arrow trying to get it on the bow. I was shaking like a leaf. I stepped to the side where I saw a clear shot to his vitals as he layed there with his chin resting on the ground. By this time I was completely out of control and clean missed him completely at just 15 yards. That was enough for him to struggle to his feet and he stumbled and staggered, wobbling from side to side like a drunk, over the knoll and out of sight. I went over where he had been laying (for about 1/2 hour) and there was a huge nasty clotted pile of blood. I took off after him and found him about 50 yards away stone dead. The arrow deflected alright, but what I couldn't see was that instead of hitting the heart-lung area, it clipped it's way through his neck. With that kind of wound which obviously hit a major vein, I have no clue how he lasted 1/2 hour and then still had the strength to get up and run another 50 yards. The "most exciting moment" was when I was trying to get that 2nd arrow into him at 15 yards. I was totally out of control. So with those hunts and many more crazy things that have happened over the years, how do you pick out the one that provided the most exciting moment ..... Ha-ha. Doc

During the regular firearms season, I have a total orange suit that I wear. During muzzleloader season, I usually am not out in the woods but if I were, I would be wearing orange. I do not wear orange during bow season. That is a decision that I am actually starting to think about a bit. There is a portion of bowseason that overlaps turkey season. There is also a fairly active small game season in progress too. Depending on what other things are thrown into bow season in the future, I may decide that I should be wearing some blaze orange during bow season too. Doc

Back in 1969, I bought a brand new 12 guage Ithaca Deerslayer. That's all I have used since. I have no idea just how many deer I have taken with that thing, but the venison would probably be measured in tons. Nothing special about the gun ........ just adequate. Doc

Mostly listen to late 50's and early 60's R&R oldies. Also into country Older songs more than newer songs). Also have a small collection of classical CDs for when I'm in the mood for that. Big surprise ...... I have been listening to a little bit of today's rock. I even went out and bought an Adam Lambert album (must be going through my second childhood). Actually, I think I just like to drive my wife crazy with it ..... lol. Doc

This time of year, the big-mommas are having their fawns. Last year's fawns are now kicked out on their own for a while ........ first time in their lives. They seem to be running around without a clue and some of them get whacked. I think some of those old goats get whacked because they are trying to keep up with their fawns which don't know what the heck is going on yet. The other day, I was coming down our driveway and a doe and fawn took off. The doe was following the fawn which was heading right for the highway. Sure enough, the fawn ran right across the road with the doe right after it. Fortunately there were no cars coming ...... this time. Doc

So, how exactly do you know when the scent works? How do you know that a deer wsn't going to come along that trail anyway. Has anyone figured out a good way to prove whether a scent has worked or not? I'm probably getting a bit cynical in my old-age, but I keep getting a picture of old Tink Nathan standing there with a beer in one hand, next to a whole bunch of scent bottles ready for packaging, with a big grin on his face filling up another bottle for sale......lol. Doc

DMP's are easy. I just go went down to the Town Clerk, showed her my lifetime license and she jumped on the computer and got me my permits. I imagine there is probably a computer way of doing it too. However, last year was my first year with the lifetime license and I didn't get my stuff at the normal time with everybody else. So I am real interested in what date I should start getting a little excited if I don't get it. I'm always a bit nervous about these things when I'm dealing with a govenment agency ....... especially with all the budget nonsense going on. Doc

I suppose it should be mentioned that if you are gripping the bow and it is working for you ...... don't mess with success. I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for messing up anyone's shooting. Yes, I can parrot what all the books and magazine articles over the past 45 years have said, but I also realize that there are a lot of people who shoot extremely well in some rather unorthodox ways. That old saying about "If it ain't broke don't fix it" probably applies here. Doc

I can sit and watch almost any hunting show, but when it comes to those Texas box-blind shows, I turn them off immediately. They can do whatever they want to do, but I don't have to watch it. It kind of reminds me of some kind of slaughterhouse technique. I'm not sure I can even classify it as "hunting". It is definitely shooting and not a whole lot more. I guess I don't have much of a problem with the style of blind, but that semi domesticated herd of deer that they have baited in and milling around the like cattle, really doesn't remind me much of any kind of hunting that I want to be associated with. Doc

Is anybody else noticing a huge increase in road-killed deer this year. I realize that the road-kill goes up around fawning season, but even considering that, it seems that the over all numbers of dead deer along the highway are way up from any year I have seen previously. We just might be looking at a bumper crop of deer this year. Doc

Let 'er rip ......... no bottle for me. Frankly I have not had a time where I even suspected that a deer was spooked by it. I have seen this argued back and forth on forums and, there are as many opinions one way as the other. I have read articles that claim that chemically there is no difference between human urine and deer urine. Also, I have heard of people "freshening up a scrape" with their own urine and having bucks come in and start tearing the scrape up. The other side of the coin is that if you consider just how sensitive a deer's nose is, how could they not know the difference? These are animals that can tell the breeding readiness of a doe simply by smelling the urine. They even identify each other with the urine smell. That is why the argument goes on forever and ever in forums. Good points to each side of the discussion. I am just too lazy to carry an empty bottle in and the full bottle out, and run the risk of it all coming apart in my pack .....lol. Plus I would never remember it anyway. Doc