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I also wouldnt be against having a youth archery hunt for a day and a youth gun hunt for a day in the proper seasons. Or a couple days each. I think the biggest hangup with this youth hunt for most is the point that there are going to be guns used in the now archery season for 3 days. For me I dont mind one bit giving up the 3 days for them to carry a firearm in, for some it seems it twist there marbles. Which I will never understand either. These kids are our future, our huntings future. Take a stand and voice your opinions where it counts is all I can say, talking about it on this site helps inform fellow hunters of different opinions and views but it sure doesnt voice it where the ears that need to hear it are.

Its something I dont get as well. I do take my kids out quite a bit with me during all seasons. But a few that do just isnt enough and alot of the points in this thread have been brought up by almost everyone in there own words I think. It would be great if this was the case for all adult mentors to take a kid out with them at any point. Sadly its just not happening. Why I dont know, I consider this time in the woods a pretty special moment with them. I have had a couple private conversations about this very topic and told those guys that I had two pretty excited boys in the house when they found out there was a potential for a youth deer hunt. And then 2 very dissapointed boys after the news of the youth hunt being sidelined. Im not sure what the exact thing about it that excites them more than going out with me any other time. When I asked the reply is cause its a day for us and only us. Both said there friends are all talking about it as well. There are times when they just cant or dont want to go out with me. Football practice or basketball practice or there buddies Bday etc. seems to take priority at times. If they are showing this much excitement about a youth hunt, I dont understand what is the big hangup with the naysayers. Whats the big hurt to take 3 days out of a now longer season for just them? They are showing more excitement about this than any other time I have ever taken them out. Maybe to them its like opening day to most adult hunters. Its there time, they were even talking about where they wanted to hunt and where they think would be a good stand setup etc. I cant speak for others kids but mine are pretty or I should say where pretty excited about it. Its was to them there hunt, there make or break, there chance for personal success and some bragging right to friends if they were succesful. Just something about it sparked more interest in them than any other time I have taken them out. If that is 2 kids out of thousands that are showing such a greater interest I cant help but think it would be a success.

Again Skully go read what has been written, did I say once anything about me whining about a youth hunt anywheres in this thread, this site or anywhere you can point out to me where I am against it anywhere its placed. I will save you the time. Nowhere dont bother looking. Which puts us back to you talking out your ass like you actually know what your saying. You want to raise a stink about a different subject regarding a two day hunt before gun season that you are whining about go ahead and do it. Until then just shut up cause you are making no sense at all.

We were but your buddy Skully and his irrelevant comments are what turned this conversation into a bash fest.

What I think Skully fails to reconize that we are avid bowhunters. His rant about a two day youth hunt before opening gun season we supposedly where so opposed against is just a stupid tyrant rant coming out his ass as he has no idea if any one of us were for or against it. So you see Skully maybe you might want to come join a conversation without accusations you have no ideal of what you are talking about. You want us to answer a question that does not exist because again like said about 20 times now. LIsten carefully since you havent already. WE SUPPORT THE YOUTH HUNT!!!!!!!!!! I dont care if its columbus weekedend or any weekend in gun season. Do you get that SKULLY? Is it transparent enough for you yet? Again we are avid bowhunters supporting a youth hunt during bow season or gun. I DID NOT COME UP WITH THE DATES if you have a problem with that, again I suggest you go to the public hearings once in awhile and voice your opinion. I love you armchair critics.

Which is quite a sad affair on everyones part. Out of said 100's of thousand hunters only 1000 showed up to the public meetings is truly sad. What is even worse is some get all pissed off over the 5 year plan for exapmle but never voiced there opinions to them about it. If any of you have attended the meetings they get side tracked with hunters complaining about different topics that are not at hand. Almost everyone I have attended has a debate amongst hunters about hunting Fort Drum. I am obviously going to take a guess here but I am betting out of those 1000 hunters that showed up alot of those were not even there for the 5 year plan nor cared about it. Atleast that is the way I interpreted it when I was there. The other thing is who actually gets these surveys? I didnt I know that. It not a great system I will agree there. But its also our responsibility to voice our opinions on these matters so things are not based of the minorities of hunters feelings. I like the idea of mandating taking a survey when you purchase your license. Simple and hits every hunter. Lets face it if 10% are voicing there opinion then either 90% are to lazy to get involved or just dont care till after the fact.

Sorry there oh great wise one, but like I already said Clearly you make shit up! I have had one of my kids with me opening day for a very long time, as well as a few others in camp. You see to some of us we actually love our kids and take great enjoyment of sharing our passions with them. Opening day without them isnt opening day at all in my eyes. Now just go away because you have nothing worth even mentioning in this thread.

Regardless of what that buck scores he is a beauty thats for certain. He makes my trips out to my trail cameras a lot less fun now lol.

You just did make shit up! Having my kids afield with me any day is not a ruined day in fact its just the opposite. For you to even think along those lines is beyond rediculous. Your last part about us HUMPS makes zero sense as well. You see we are not complaining about a youth hunt we are defending it and in full support. We hear DOC loud and clear and everything he is saying is not going over our heads. Its a system that has and is failing, a system that every hunter in NY has had the opportunity to do for longer than I have been alive, it doesnt work hasnt worked and obvioulsy will continue down that same path. See the thing is DOC makes some very valid points and points that I sure wish was actually happening, but they are not. So stand up and fight against a youth hunt you guys are so against during a time that you have never had the chance in STier to even hunt in but yet cant fathom giving 3 days of it to a kid.

The "special" season has been tried, was a huge success and still is for a youth turkey hunt. What makes you feel that since this tried program worked once in NY already that it cannot be the same for a youth deer hunt? Until it actually has been tried why the constant bashing of it? Incase some people havent noticed America has changed, NY has changed our adult and youth way of thinking has changed, if we dont change or atleast try different things to changed a failing system then we are all fools. Its pretty clear we as mentors are failing on our part with overall numbers to be a mentor to the youth to get them in the field, theres no denying it by anyone because the numbers are proof. Instead of just sitting back and do nothing an attempt is being made that was a success once already. Most kids these days want that Im special feeling regardless of what we think about that. This is eactly what the Special Youth hunt does, gives them that and a time shared with an adult mentor they can call thier time in the woods for a few days. What the hell is so damn wrong with that? Not a thing, nothing, nadda,zippo, zilch. Its a far better attempt and something to start with versus sitting on there ass watching the numbers drop.

Is this statement for real? There was alot more intentions to why opening day was switched to a monday aside from youths being involved. For one you no longer had to apply ahead of time for a day off while the whole damn factory had put in for the same day off as well. Also do you really believe that all the kids in school strapping a back tag were given permission to skip school and go? So yeah Im sure it did anger alot of the happy monday shooters, but it gave opportunity for alot more to be in the woods on saturday instead. So yeah the angry monday hunters had to share the woods with some kids and other hard working americans. By chance where you the guy who wrapped all the blaze orange jackets around the trees that first saturday opener?

You can call it gimmicky and window dressing all you care. See the problem is hunting numbers are dropping, which simply says the old tactics that worked for you are no longer working this day and age on our youth. The opportunity to take a kid out with you on opening day has always been there. Obviously it is not working. So instead of sitting on a dead solution and watching numbers drop and an attempt made to change this from being a never ending cylce of dwindling hunters your just willing to bash the hell out of it because you dont agree nor does your precious NYB on the youth hunt? I also have to say I really find it hard to swallow how much the youth turkey hunt was praised and yet nothing but complaints by a certain bunch of bowhunters who now have additional days added to archery season and cannot fathom letting a 3 day youth hunt take place during a time that archery hunters never had a chance to partake in to begin with. Something strangely odd with that. Let me ask this would NYB be in favor of taking the first 3 days of opening gun away and use that time for a youth hunt only? What I think alot also fail to reconize is a bowhunter still can bowhunt on their own during the youth hunt. You dont have to partake in the youth hunt that bothers some of you so much. For gods sake our youth is our future and what the hell is the big problem with trying something new versus something old that is failing? Sadly most hunters who are against it I already know the answer but they simply cannot come out and say they do not want to accept the idea or chance that someone else might kill a deer and lesson there opportunity out of jealousy, greed or whatever you want to call it. The last claim that opening gun is the best opportunity for a youth to have a chance for some "action" is rediculous for several reasons. First one that comes to mind is southern tier has never had an OCT1 opener nor a 3 day youth hunt on columbus day, so who is to say without first trying that this might be the best opportunity? The other thing is I can only speak for me but I can tell you that opening weekend of gun i see far less deer than I do during bow season. Last minute guys tromping throught the woods finding that weekend hotspot, or the yahoos sighting in there guns on all four sides of your land right up to last light of opening eve sure doesnt do much for the deer around me other than put them on high alert. But yep you nay sayers are all right! Lets just stick to a failed system and die along with it.

If your scared of the saw put it down. You have to respect it and being afraid of one is not a good thing. Be safe chaps, helmet, eye and ear protection are a lot cheaper than one trip to the ER and less painful as well. Never cut over your head. Take an operator safety course. Lawdaz you come on over and cut all my wood you want LOL Im getting sick of it. Between the 13 full cords for syrup and the 15 full cord for the house every year it sure gets old in a hurry. Skid,cut,split,stack it never ends.

I have a friend with the opposite feeling. He got transfered to England for his job. Packed the wife and 3 kids up and left. He know has the chance to come back to NY and his family told him to forget about it they are staying there. Doc hit on a very good point. Globalization! I really think we need to start looking out for #1 (USA). Back to grass roots. I have a buddy who strongly feels the only way we are going to get america back to what it was is with a depression. I obviously was not part of the era of the great depression but he feels it united people and this country.

Here it is!

I took the Liberty to de-blur and some other photo work on your picture to see if I could make it out a little clearer. I think it is obvious now that the photo is more clear. I think you might want to consider trespassing charges against this guy for being on private american soil. LOL Oh yep it was definatley teeth you seen in the picture too.

What is so hard for people to understand. The NO in no trespassing means NO. It amazes me how frigging stupid people actually can be. Damn ask permission for crying out loud. Thats a heck of alot easier than the consequences of getting caught from a less than happy lanowner. This stuff is just plain stupid theres no other way to say it nicer. If I wanted you on my land I will invite you, until then stay the hell out, SIMPLE.

The oats I had in loast year as the same brand Grow. Deer did not touch it till after the first frost, then they hammered it pretty good. Was a 1 acre plot and it made it into winter just fine. Here is the thing though. The darn winter wheat seed did not grow at all until the following spring, and it grew in thick. Deer have not touched that at all.

I wasnt trying to reference anything to a picture of a baitpile. But yeah I would have to agree it would prove more worthy of a pinpoint location. This was a drug task force team that was sent in. They had a handheld device to mark coordinates and said it was to pinpoint the satelite imaging to the area. Could be a ploy or scare tatic on there part I dont know but I do have family members in law enforcement that said this was common practice. Maybe its a county by county thing since it was sherrifs department that took the call, I dont know. All I know is it was to close to home for me to want any part of the dope growing near me and the problem was solved and eradicated rather smoothly I might say.

And Obamma. The three of them alone would be a great start thats for sure!

I dont know if this was brought up yet or not, as I just couldnt read all the bantering anymore lol. Today on the news it reported that this psycho applied for a 26,000 dollar grant of some sort, got accepted and used the money to commit this crime. So where does that leave everything on this gun debate now? Government gave him the money that he obviously lied to get, and now government wants to further enforce gun control and use this in there defense. This whole deal is heart wrenching.

I noticed that earlier when I looked Single Shot. The area Im in is a training ground as well for DEC. I see them everyday driving by or somewhere around the area or at there headquarters. I will have to pay some attention as to what the patch on the jacket or emblems on the SUV's says. Not that it really matters just curious is all.

Interesting, I reported a cash crop on neighboring property and within a few hours drug task force was at my house asking me to take them to the spot. It was on neighboring land and the land owner lives out of state. Later that year I asked the land owner who came out if they contacted him and he said never heard a word. They marked the spot and said it was being monitored via satelite imagining. The neighbor on the other side of that land eventually got caught, sold out and moved.

LOL If your that into acronyms I guess. All I can tell you is last fall while fishing a plain closed officer was fishing next to me, I seen his badge under his vest. I asked him if he was an ECO and his response was no DEC officer we no longer use the name ECO and havent in a long time. Asked for my license and then moved down to the next hole fishing for violators.

Could it be possible when the scope was mounted it was tweeked when tightend down? I have heard of this and had it happen to me once before I knew better. Slapping a scope on a gun and just torquing down the clamps can cause damage. Look at it this way, you put a tire on a car and tighten one nut and then go to the next and tighten that one down without wobbling down the road after. Not saying this is what happened but a possibility. You scope could have been fine but that last 1/2 adjustment was more than the lens could bear if the scope was tweeked. Another way to look at it is you mount the scope on the gun, crank down the bolts on the front, without knowing it pitched the rear of the scope upward slightly, now you move to the rear clamp and you tighten that down. It essentially bends the scope in place tweeking it.