NFA-ADK

I was in the ADK last weekend for 5 days. No scrapes or rubs found, as a matter of fact I did not see a deer the entire time I was in Moose River. Very warm and I was supprised how many people go bear/coyote hunting. More people than I care to hunt around. One hunter was so close I had to get out of the area, did not think too many deer would come in with all the yelping and shooting going on, he seamed to be going after coyotes... Monday the area died down and I was able to scout about a 5 mile area with very little sigh of mature bucks and deer sign was old. Did find one BIG set of tracks I will go after during rifle season... No scraps or rubs, I think the combination of excessive rain and warm weather is keeping them in smaller area's and holding onto summer patterns, due to easy access of food, just my oppinion.

This could be from fighting... Im not a expert but this could be from the rut. The ranger was convinced this same type of hole on my buck was from fighting and not a bullet wound.

Awsome, thanks for sharing!!!

I always go for the heart/double lung area but I have no issue with head shots if it's a capable shooter. If I had to I would take a head shot with my 30-06 just because of the scope and accuracy of the gun. I think I would be too scared of shooting off a antler on a big buck to attempt it. Heart shots enable a larger kill zone resulting in a better percentage of kills using this method, it's simple and works very well.

When I use to stay at the adirondack trail motel you HAD to make reservations a year in advance to get a room for opening week. That was in 1990, after a few years you did not need to make reservations due to low hunter participation. My god child and brother will soon be up with us. His father purchased a .22 for his 12th birthday, I gave a nice gun bag and some shoot and see targets and a camo shirt. Hope to keep the 2 of them interested... IF I can get his father into a deer this year they will be hooked, so that's the plan... Hard enough to get one for myself and now I need to get one for someone else, O boy... I think the best thing to reach the masses would be a really good movie about hunting mabe some elite special forces guy, like a rambo movie but more on the hunting side... Fat chance with the tree huggers in Hollywood. A good video game would not work as the kids would just play it year round and never leave the house... I always try to encourage the younger people I see, but most just do not understand why people hunt. In most schools hunting is looked down upon and is discouraged. When was the last time a hunting course was offered at a school on Long Island of any type for the kids, too many liberals that have no clue about the environmant and what hunters do to contribute...

1)If a buck passes you undisturbed, use a doe call and get ready. And stay in cover after calling. 2)Doe calls work great at 1st light. Use it once and wait at least 20-30 min before thinking about moving or blinking. The bucks come in from a distance and take time to scan the area. 3)Find the acorns, never give up and always be ready the moment you enter the woods. 4)Make sure your scoped rifles are set to a low power after shooting at the range, you can always turn it up if they are far away... My biggest mistake last year, cost me a nice buck at about 15 feet but at least I did not wound him... Sorry I could not limit this to one thing!!! With hunting only 3 days away I am extreamly EXCITED!!!

5H Hamilton 4R Prattsville if friends cabin is accessible... 3H Roscoe

Amen!!!

I agree, you can shoot a deer at 100 yards, IF IT DOES NOT MOVE. The only problem I have with that is what I call the jump factor. String noise travels faster than arrows... When you shoot under 45-50 yards you have a much better chance of the deer NOT jumping the string. In so far as hunting time, to each his own... I am sure most serious hunters get in as much time as is allowed. I go to every hunting area I am invited to during the hunting season if time allows. This year I have saved 3 weeks of my 3 week vacation for Hunting, I cannot do much more. 1 week bow in the ADK, 5 days 2 weeks later for SZ bow and 1 week for ADK during rifle with a few days left in case I don't fill my tag.

It's not about getting the biggest buck for me, it's about hunting mature deer and there is a difference. Mature deer in general have to have at least 6 points for me to shoot, and yes I know this is not the best way to judge a deer’s age but it's the easiest way until you get them... Most SZ hunters I know would not hunt the NZ because of deer populations and the vastness of the woods... In so far as the hunters you know taking mature deer with any weapon, tell them to try it with a bow all season... I bet most will stick with their weapon of choice. In so far as consistency I agree, most hunters do not spend the time or effort to get a mature deer. I have a hunter in my party who shoots one time 20 round max on a rest w/scope, if he hits the target ok he is done shooting. I try to explain that he probably will not have a rest to lean on but he will not take my advice and will not try shooting free-hand. I am hoping that I get my consistency up this year after missing opportunities at 3 mature ADK deer over the last few years which I attribute to buck fever amongst other factors...

It sounds like you are saying that a compound is required to make up for lack of hunting skill and the art of getting close, which by the way was the original intent of bow seasons. We are constantly trying our darndest to stretch out that shooting distance through technology. I try to keep sight of what the original challenge was supposed to be. It was using short-range equipment to challenge our hunting abilities through the need to get within that 20 or 25 yard distance. Certainly there are some very good advantages to using compounds, but my main reason for using one is not to see how far away I can shoot my deer. In fact, I still limit my shots to 25 yards even though the target range says I could shoot farther. But frankly I am the most satisfied when I can get within a handful of feet (almost in touching distance .... lol). That's a bit of a test, and that's when I really get over-the-top excited. To me that's the challenge and excitement of bowhunting. To Each His Own... Hunting is different for each person... You use a bow to get close to your prey, I don’t! I have a supposed "hunter" that didn't even go into the woods one year but loves to drink at base camp all day and say he "hunts"... I don’t complain because I like someone watching my stuff at base camp… Only problem is I found out last year we are know as the “drunks” because of him… Not the best representative for base camp but like I said hunting is what you make of it… Every year I hunt, I seem to raise the bar for MYSELF. You use a bow to get CLOSE to your pray, within touching distance, that’s great. Let’s see some video. I use the compound bow for additional time in the woods and to pre-scout for rifle season in the Adirondacks. I do not realistically think that I will get a mature deer(Northern Zone bow), even though I will try my hardest... I invite you to come where I hunt and photograph a single mature buck in the woods while still hunting, you can stay at my camp site if you would like. Then if you actually get a picture of the deer you can try your skills at getting close and we can discuss your success at base camp… I am going the 1st week in October, so far a solo hunt 1st-8th Moose River. Most hunters in the area I hunt do not see a deer the entire week, including some famous deer trackers. And please do not suggest I use a compound bow due to lack of hunting skills and the art of getting close, you do not know me or what I have accomplished hunting. I have come within touching distance of deer when hunting and choose to let them go. I use a bow for additional time with nature and do what I want, not what others think I should do. (I don't shoot doe or spikes in the ADK where I hunt. In the Roscoe area, even though it needs help with doe population, I am not allowed to shoot doe’s by the land owner…) Again, I hunt mature bucks not does or spikes. I could have hit a deer with a baseball bat in Roscoe on three diff occasions one weekend. I just don't kill for the sake of killing or saying I killed X amount of deer or because I need to eat. I hunt because I love to hunt. I do not have the ability to hunt that often so an opportunity at 40 yards is just that and opportunity and to exclude that would be a shame if it was a nice mature buck... The extra 20 yards I get with a compound bow is my choice. Please do not confuse my hunting ability with the fact that I will not sacrifice an extra 20 yards of shooting effectiveness... It gets me upset, lol…

I agree with you IF you are shooting less than 20-25 yards, they are as deadly as a compound but I don't feel they are as effective... I hope you understand my point. The nice thing about a compound bow is you can shoot out to about 35-45 yards effectively... I can hit bulls at 50. I do not feel that I could get the same results with a recurve consistently. That is the biggest problem I have with a recurve is the fact that you are limited... Hunting the Adirondacks with low deer population and rough terrain, I want the most advance shooting device I can have to ensure a good shot at 30-40 yards. That extra confidence in the bows ability is why I stick with a compound bow... It's much harder to get close to a mature deer and that extra 10-15 yards I get with a compound bow is HUGE!!! I want an arrow that will go through the deer for a quick ethical kill. I just feel a compound bow in the area I hunt is much more ideal and effective. I am not saying a recurve will not work or that a really good shooter can not take a long shot but a recurve is just not as effective at longer distances and limits your shots. Can you take deer with recurve? Yes the Indians used them for years; But I believe a compound bow is better suited for a still hunter in the Adirondacks looking for longer more effective shooting ability...

Thanks Larry, I have used the 240 hornady and think the federal 300 gr is a nice round too at close range. Nice to hear I am not the only one who takes deer with this round, wow 10 deer, that pretty much proves the round is acceptable for deer to me. You verified what I though I knew, 44Mag is a good close deer hunting round. Those 245 gr cast hp with gas check, sounds interesting. I love the gun because hiking a distance with the 30-06 in hand or even with the sling is a pain. The 44 mag offers a easy carry and does not even require a sling keeping it ready when needed in hand. Plus follow up shots are very easy as the recoil is minimal keeping your sights on the prey. I will check those barns rounds out. Thanks again, your knowledge is greatly appreciated!!!

I understand your concern but I am allowed to shoot them(doe's and spikes)... If I accidently shot one it would still be legal. While doing this I would not have my finger on the trigger (release). I use to try to get sighted at full draw onto them with the bow to see if I was able to: WITHOUT them seeing or hearing me. It did not always work, that is why I did it. This way when I was ready to shoot at a deer I wanted, I had drawn on so many for practice it was second nature and hopefully I had fixed my errors on deer I would have missed in practice. This was done with bow only, I never aimed a gun at ANY deer I did not want to shoot. And yes after I pulled off the deer and drew down I would say, "I would have taken you!!!" Last year my best down draw was on a black bear 10 yards away, again just a cub about 200 lbs, unfortunatly one of my hunting party decieded to shoot him but thats another story...

Some REALY nice deer up in the ADK. Nice area you hunt, I hunted Athol/Thurman my 1st year in the ADK. That is a real beauty of a buck you've taken I have seen the last picture on some sites. I am told thier are bigger ones out thier, and that gets my blood pumping!!! Nice to hear you agree. It's hard to Hunt the Dack's but like you said the rewards of taking a mature buck can be a trophy and story of a lifetime. Many places in the ADK are challenging and passing on that little spike buck can get you a ticket to a true trophy. I have a hard time convincing all of my camp to hunt like Shawn and I. It is hard to convince guys who never see deer to not shoot a spike and I can't stop them, just advise them on what I do and why. Some people will shoot anything with horns and I am ok with that but I do not need to fill my tag to eat or gain notoriety by shooting X amount of deer. I do it because it's fun, a challenge and every moment in the woods away from our crazy society is just BLISS... Again wow really nice buck!!! THanks for the post and best of luck to you and your camp this year! A good hunt is when everyone comes home safe, everything else is just details!

How about a 44 Mag, just wondering what your take might be on that grain... I have taken 2 Northern Bucks with this round. I have used 200 plus grains and sometimes higher... Hits them hard but does not always come out the other side...

No score but he was 207 lbs.

where abouts are you from in suffolk? im in Centereach... do you hunt the island? I live in Huntington. I have never hunted on Long Island for a few reasons. 1 public land has many restrictions and I do not have access to private land. 2 Even though Suffolk might have some of the largest antlers in NY it just is not the same as hunting upstate. 3 lyme disease scares me... I can't say I will never hunt Long Island, just have not done it yet... I am always willing to try a new area just to see more deer and watch them and there habits. I feel the more knowledge on ANY deer will help when I get into the big woods, one of the reasons I read so many deer hunting books.

Like anything else it's a personal preference... As I got older and more experienced I became less challenged when it came to killing deer... so about 17 years ago started getting picky about what I shoot, how I hunt and what I shoot them with... I still however use a rifle in the ADK's simply because the challenge is the woods itself... and shooting a big buck there makes it even more of a challenge... so it's nice to have a little firepower when you finally get that opportunity to take a nice buck in the ADK's.. when I hunt close to home it's MZ w/patch and ball.. or the recurve... Harley riders have a saying about riding a Harley that applies here about shooting trad bow... "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand." ;D You are years ahead of me in the hunting game Mr.Nyantler and have my respect. I hope to reach the same level of hunting wisdom as you one day and simply say I do not need a compound bow and move over to the recurve and black powerder. (Like you said except for the ADK) I believe we have the same attitude in hunting, we do it for the experaince and the love of nature and all its beauty. Some of my most memorable times in the woods have been when I let a doe or small buck pass and seen all the action I would have missed if I had shot them... It seems to me most hunters get this attitude after taking many deer; they become so good that shooting a deer just does not cut it anymore, and then the challenge starts, they hunt smart and are not as concerned with impressing others by taking a deer EVERY year and they do not need to fill a freezer to eat... This type of hunter is the most advance hunters in the world of deer hunting due to the vast knowledge aquired over many years of hunting whitetail, in my oppinion... I hope some day that I can reach this level of hunting experiance, knowledge and wisdom. I always tell the guys at camp, a successful hunt is one we all come back home safe, everything else is just details... I attached the mount from last years hunt. Same deer pictured in 1st post.

I agree, the long bow is just tough to get good with and it just does not have the power I want in a bow. When I was praticing allot w/my bow I was good out to 35-40 yards and could hit the bull still at 50. But realisticly I would not shoot past 30. Hats off to all the post guys you ROCK!!! You have my respect and my secerity. So good to talk to other fellow hunters, feel like I am encircled with tree huggers that know very little about the woods yet they are the ones that think they know what is best for us hunters and the environment. Suffolk county resident... 67 days till bow hunting/scouting the ADK!!!

Lawdwaz Moose River is the area I hunt... I understand why you do not go back, the woods are vast and the deer very few, but when you get one it has the potential of being a mature animal. Hunting in the Catskills or western NY is a world apart from Moose River and many places in the ADK. My other spot I love is the cold river at the end of long lake another true wilderness. Again a hard place to get to and to hunt, but the rewards are worth it. LocalQDM When I still hunt with the bow I usually have a arrow on the bow and yes it can be a pain. If I am in a hard terain area or climing, I put the arrow away. But for the most part when I hunt I have the arrow ready. When you least expect it, thats when they show up... Out of the 8 guys that hunt with us about 3 others are serious hunters and the rest well lets just say not everyone hunts as hard as me. I try to get up at 3:30 am to get into the woods in the dark and usually get out in the dark. I don't recommend this, but thats part of what I do.

Geno and FastEddie I agree with you both. But this is not about QDM. Contrary to your believe that passing doe's will not give me a better chance at shooting a mature buck is your opinion and I respect that. I agree with you somewhat in high populations of deer like I see in Roscoe: But I hunt areas with less than 1 deer per square mile as my main area. I just feel killing a doe in this area is not good for the herd, just my opinion... I think some areas require more population control than others and that will determine what is most appropriate. I am not doing this to improve the herd or in the hope of one of these bucks getting mature or the possibility of a doe producing more deer for my area. But I hope it's a possibility... QDM is impossible for me as I hunt mostly public land and would get arrested for setting up food plots, clearing land etc. LOL. I do this because I hunt mature bucks; shooting a doe or a button buck or spike is just, well too easy for me. (And by no means do I consider myself an "expert hunter" just experienced.) I am up for the challenge of getting a mature buck that I can be proud of, not because he is big or mature but what I have to go through to get a mature deer is hard WORK... This requires me to spend more time learning about my prey and the area he is in and takes much more discipline and preparation to ascertain a skill set required to get mature animals. I do not get to hunt that much, about 7-17 days is usually my max for the season with one full week spent in the ADK. Because I do not get to scout the area I hunt, I rely on books and the knowledge of other experts to help me evaluate the woods quickly and get onto the game. I credit books with helping me get into mature deer hunting and get the most out of the short time I have in the woods. I have passed on a doe and later had a mature buck that followed her, so in so far as not seeing mature deer by letting a doe go, I do not agree with you entirely but again this is just my opinion. Will thinning out the does be good for a herd? Yes if the herd is large and the doe/buck population is out of balance. But I hunt in the ADK and the herds I see are small(Usually I am the only one to even see a deer the entire week I go hunting with 8 guys.) and taking a doe is just not needed in these areas of less than 1 deer per square mile... Again this is just my opinion and this is why I go for mature deer, it is just more rewarding for ME and presents the best challenge. I will say this: ANY deer is nice as long as you earn it! I only still hunt even with a bow, unless the limited area dictates it(private land/many hunters). I think what I am really saying is I hunt for the joy of hunting and the challenge that a mature deer presents, pitting my skills as a hunter vs the seasoned mature buck in his natural environment with no fences to worry about... My hunting partner of over 20 years has never even taken a shot, yet 2 years ago he could have almost touched a 4 pointer walking past him on a steep ridge ledge, he has the same mentality as I. Perhaps Mr. Alsheimer, the Benoit brothers, and many, many other high adventure North Woods Hunters have corrupted my mind with thier books of wisdom about hunting "Mature Deer" and "Advanced Deer Hunting" but I would not have it any other way. Do we need to shoot doe, yes and if I ever own private land I would try to keep population controlled but control is regional and sometimes very local but vital to QDM. Thanks for the complement LocalQDM and No I have not scored him yet, I estimate about 130 ish on the low side… Know a scorer around Long Island?

You make some valid points I can not disagree on. Because I have never hunted the far western NY area that much I can not speak from experiance. But even area's with high presser can have mature deer in them, they are just really hard to get and sometimes they become nocturnal and make it all but imposible to get at them, add into the fact that you are limited by the area you can go makes the challenge dawnting... My personal oppinion on helping the herd would be to start antler restrictions like in the lower DMU areas. I think that plan has been in effect for a few years now and the hunters seem to be getting better class of deer as a result. Thanks for the reply and best of luck to you and your hunting party this year!!!

Hunting for over 20 years, I have never shot at a doe or a yearling anything; although I have drawn my bow on many a mature doe and 3-4 pointers for pratice. This is just my way of hunting... I am not after the largest antlers or the meat. I hunt for the joy of hunting and the closeness it brings me to nature and the good lord. Ever since reading about the Great ADK and the vast woods and mature deer it held I have had a passion for hunting "mature deer". Perhaps reading Charlie Alsheimer’s books about hunting has influenced me the most, he is amazing… I always felt leaving the immature deer and doe would give me a better chance at seeing a mature buck and over the years it has paid off. Am I a successful hunter, by most standards no? I do not harvest deer every year even though I think I could. Hunting for me is a challenge and to shoot a doe or a yearling is just not that challenging for ME. Please do not get me wrong, I have no objection to anyone taking a doe or a button buck to fill your freezer or due to limited hunting time. Just saying what I do and why. Hunt long, Hunt hard and Hunt Safe!!! NFA GETSOME

I personaly feel a shorter season will not help the heard and could possible make the woods more dangerous. The dec should be able to control population with management permits and shortening the season will just make it harder for people with limited time to hunt. I do not think shortening the season will help anything except to limit our hunting options. As for people who think this will get you larger antlers and help the heard, I think you are misinformed. The big bucks are everywhere but they are smart and that is why they are still around... Shortening the season will do nothing in my oppinion to help the heard. With more hunters in a shorter span you are putting more pressure on the heard and more hunters together wich could possible result in more accidents, could result in better hunting but the risk of having too many hunters hunting at one time I think is not worth the risk... Just my oppinion, hope not to offend as this is my 1st post... Hunt hard, Hunt Safe!!!