dave6x6

Covert, pretty sure you were the one that first turned this into a one type of hunter vs. the other type of hunter tread. Even though we americans have been scoring deer for about 140 years now, you would think that it's the root of all evil in the hunting world. By the way, even throughout time, native americans and many indiginous people judged their warriors and chiefs by the great animals they killed. So please don't look down your nose at those of us that enjoy hunting the big deer. Now as for this King buck , i would agree with you and others that this is a total joke. I believe this buck should get a panel score. It's interesting that the past two bucks that looked like they might dethrone the Hanson Buck have both been classified under dubious circumstances as a non-typical buck. The other was the Zaft buck taken in Alberta about 10 years ago. Zaft ended up not entering his buck out of protest. Not really sure what crap is going on with the Boone and Crocket club but I hope there is some way to make some changes at the top levels because they seam to be really screwing this one up.

I know you've done enough of these where you know what your doing but a couple small things came to mind while you described your problem. Chicory is such a small seed that any time i'm using a tiller, i always make sure i cultipack or roll the soil before broadcasting. The tiller fluffs the soil so much that even a moderately heavy rain can drive those seeds so deep that they wont germinate. Roll- seed-rollagain usually works best and gives you all the seed contact you need. I don't believe that has anything to do with this particular problem though because you said the plot did fine up to a point and then died off. Chicory likes heavy soil so maybe that loogging road is too well drained for that planting.?? Chicory also likes alot of sun and in my experience clover will tolorate a bit less sun so maybe like growalot stated, it maybe just isn't getting enough to survive. It's too bad though. I've been frustrated by plantings myself in the past and it can tick you off. Chicory is surprising though. It is usually pretty reliable.

Pictures?

Yea, you got a grandson and a starting right tackle all in one awesome fathers day.. Good for you.

Just saw a picture from Rush NY that my brother took from his phone. Ward Hill rd. was completely covered in the worms to the point where he said it looked like the road was "moving" as they were driving on it. Also Dad said the worms were in Gorham yesterday and were destroying his 54 acre wheat field.

LOL, who you kiddin' . The minute you shoot a buck that looks like it might be 215" typical, your finding a tape measure, just like the rest of us mature buck hunters.

Yea right..

Some awesome looking turf you got there skyhunter.. It's really amazing how a creek can be the center attraction to wildlife. Good stuff

Good stuff Growalot. Keep us updated with pics throughout the summer. Really curious to see how that REEFER plot does for you..

My best stand locations have most of these elements in one pretty package and thats what makes them so great but a good stand in my opinion will never be great without the ability to access it undetected. Especially if your after mature deer. That said, i would take a pinch point/funnel #1 and would put sign as my last priority. I know there are going to be mature deer on the property so my goal is to not wander all over the place chasing tracks and rubs. Stay patient and let them make a mistake. Food is also pretty far down on my list simply because in farm country, it's everywhere. (and i'm the food plot guy. LOL) As for cover, It plays a huge roll in my absolute killer stands but only because it has the accessability and the pinch combined with it. If you can find a pinch, 75-100 yrds downwind of a bedding area, and can access it undetected, you will see bucks at any given time during the day, Guaranteed..

The number of variables are almost endless when trying to figure out your plot size but here are a few numbers that may help with the anal side of things. Whitetails eat about 1.5 tons of food per year. Food plots if well maintained can produce up to 2 tons of food per acre. I would estimate more in the 1 ton per acre for most first timers with limited experience. Nature is able to produce about 1/4 ton of browse per acre per year so if your depending on that to hold your deer over, then chances are your understory will never catch a break without the help of plots. Then there is deer density?? your quess is as good as ...Well ...The DEC i guess. So if you trust the deer numbers, you should be able to do the math from that info. I wouldn't bother. Here is another number. Provided you have the equipment, it will cost you about $300-$350 dollars per acre to plant a food plot and i personally would not skimp to save $10 per acre buying inferior seed or not liming or whatever. And i certainly would not do anything without getting a soil test first. If this is not do-able then i would just do like Growalot suggested and just mow the areas and hope for the best. I applaude the fact that your giving the plot alot of thought and would hate to see your BIL or yourself just plow up some land and throw something in the dirt. It's an investment that could change your hunting for years to come. Don't let it grow dis-appointment and frustration.

Doc, i wish you had givin' us your reasoning for wondering about big plots alittle earlier in the thread. Glad some other posters finally put you on to the tonnage/deer density info that may be helpful to you. As others have stated, 24 acres is certainly not needed. G-mans advice of 2-5 acres is a good guideline and working the edges with irregular shaped plots are a good idea. Try to work the grassy areas and leave any clumps of brambles or trees that are trying to grow. By the way, I am not far from you and would love to take a look at the layout and give you some advice if you wanted. PM me if your interested.

Looks like i've got my first preditor in my new food plot.

thats the way it looks to me..

Griz. Not sure if you decided to move forward with those small plots but this would be my recomendation. If you can get the ground worked to the point where you can get simple soil to seed contact, then you can have a successful plot.. I would use either Secret Spot or No Plow. Both are almost fool proof when it comes to getting them to grow, especially if they recieve good sun for some of the day. In my opinion, secret spot does a little better job at attracting deer during the earlier parts of the season and also are very effective late as well. If you are mostly concerned with late gun season then maybe No-Plow has a slight edge late. Get ground down to the dirt. Plant in mid July. And if you can roll it with a small lawn roller after you broadcast seed then you will get good soil contact and it WILL grow..

LOL larry, When you have the amazing deer turf that the BB Farm has, we just sit back here on the fringe and hope we don't do something stupid to screw the deer hunting up.. It's that farm that actually led us into the food plot business. By the end of Nov. you have these great bucks searching for food and we decided to give them all they need and then some. The other major benifit we have seen is the woodlots have become much thicker because they are not getting hammered with browse eatin' deer, and that keeps them feeling much more comfortable and secure on our turf.. You and I are very fortunate ..

Yes..

Doc, maybe i didn't explain it very well. I have a property that i help to manage. Right in the middle of the 200 acres is a 13acre field that had been farmed for years. With this set-up, the hunter (and the wildlife) only really achieved a benifit from this area for about 2 months out of the year. So years ago we implimented a food plot lay-out with a combination of perrenial and annual plantings that now provide the deer (turkey, pheasant, bunnies, fox, yotes, bears) with the nutrition they need year round. It is now the focal point of the entire property. How much is that worth? Just ask that land owner. If you can think of a better way or more logical way to improve a 13 acre farm field, i'm open to suggestions. The amount of food or the size of your plots depends entirely on what the land owner is trying to achieve and the strengths and weaknesses of the property. The notion that a BIG food plot is somehow detrimental is pretty far fetched. Unless your clear cutting a White Oak ridge top to put in a clover field.. Most plotters are removing unproductive spots and making them productive.

I once read a quote by Bill Winke talking about how to make sure your deer property is living up to it's potential. And it basically sums up what we like to do for hunters that are interested in making improvements on their hunting properties. Now mind you this pertains to your serious hunters that dont use their property for too many other outdoor activities. He basically said that if each section of your land is not offering either security/ bedding, or food, or water, then that section is under- performing and could be improved. With that in mind, although it may seem like a waste of money and time, some parts of a hunting property can only be improved by moving it into the food category. Leaving it in a state that provides nothing to benifit the deer is wasting the potential of that section of land. Access or logging roads are a good example that we can all relate to. Unplanted it provides very little to the deer. Planted it provides everything it once did plus food in a covered environment. So we always try to look at each small section and then move it into the category that makes the most sense and impliment the changes to get it there. If i created 15 bedding areas but only had 10 deer, would that be wasted time and effort or would i be improving the hunting potential of the property?

On the property i hunt, we only do large feeding plots as opposed to hunting plots. Our goal is to keep the deer fed and healthy yr round so they don't feel they need to travel in search of their next meal. Currently we have 13acres divoted to perrenials with the majority of that being Whitetail Clover. Chicory and alfafla and some extreme make up about 2 acres. We also have about 9 acres devoted to annuals, corn, soybeans and wintergeens. We don't always plant the whole 9 acres and sometimes rotate with some sections going unplanted for a yr. As far as overkill goes, yes i suppose you could look at it as a waste of time and money but when the farmer finishes combining the corn in Nov. food in ag country becomes very scarce for the whitetail. 4acres of brassica will just barely make it through til the spring. And the deer will dig for the clover all winter as well.

LOL

If you don't see the Dems as being a much bigger problem in this matter , then you don't know the facts Sits. don't recall saying i stand by any party. I simply pointed out the facts of where union dues (tax payer money) ends up. The overwhelming majority of political contributions go to the democratic party. They are a two headed monster that cannot survive without each other. Thats reality at this point in history, but i do believe there is a chance that over time, if union members are given a choice of where there dues money goes, you will find this political landscape will change dramatically. I do believe that there are a great many union members that do not support the socialist labor movement parties agenda and are much more conservative then their unions collective voice shows. Here is some more reality. The unions have two choices. They can fight tooth and nail to keep riding the gravy train that they have been on if they want but the problem is there is no more money to suck dry. The train has reached the station. So they can give a little now in the form of contributions to their benifits or they can run the risk of not having a job at all when Illinois, Calif. and NY go bankrupt.

Bushwacker, i've read your posts and it seems to me that you feel the hate for public unions is mis-directed and should instead be targeted to the politicians. The MAJOR flaw in your argument is that the unions and democratic party are fused together and rely on each other for their power. And feeding that engine of power is your taxes and mine. Bloated salaries with step increases guarantee that there will be even more union dues to be alocated to the Dems re-election caufers. They cannot be seperated and they both need to be dis-mantled. It is pure extortion and a clear money laundering scheme that walker has exposed. Our taxes pay the salaries, the union demands their dues, their dues go to elect as many communist party usa politicians as it can, and the poiticians expand their money base by creating as many public sector jobs as possible. Walker outlawing the mandatory dues will prove to be the most significant part of this fight and other states are sure to follow. And you can bet the unions will make it an ugly fight that costs tax payers even more money where ever they show up. As far as the government/media complex goes.. I don't think you know what your talking about. How can we be parroting the gov/media complex when the lefty media has refused to report the factual issues and what a farst the whole recall was. The media has been totally in bed and hoping for an embarrassing defeat of Walker and has refused to point out the greedy, destructive, politically currupt aspects of the unions. It's been one endless teacher story or firefighter story or social service calamity after another.

While Mule Deer hunting in Wyoming, My brother was watching a group of does crest a hilltop less then 100 yrds from his set-up. Out of no where a mountain lion pounced on one does back and the two of them rolled down the side of this mountain until they collided with a tree. The deer scrambled and made his get away. My brother said he just couldn't believe what he just saw. Later in the week him and his young guide were set up when a big cat came into view. The guides eyes lit up and him having a tag, asked my brother if he could use his 06' to shoot him. In an instant my brother became the guide, and he did his best to calm the kid down as he was shaking worse then any buck fever you can imagine. "breath" he kept saying.. "just squeeze the trigger".. "right behind the shoulder"... Needless to say the kid totally choked and blew the shot. The abuse that kid took in camp the whole rest of the week was relentless. My brother shot a great mulie on the last day and after shooting, he turned to the guide and asked, "you OK ?" LOL

Erussell, I am a un-ashamed camo-aholic but i am not a big fan of the camo leaf outfits. To me, they are noisy and they tend to snag on every little twig when your walking through the brush. Also snag when your back is up against the tree. Some people really like them but when i pick out an outfit, i want it to do more then just conceal. Warmth, weather protection, scent control (in some cases) , comfort and concealment are all important. Most of these outfits only excel at the concealment portion and even that is a minimal improvement if at all. jmo.