SteveB

Who is Ted?

Or there is a reason for not shooting the 2.5's. They get to live, reproduce and survive another year, and potentially grow and mature. Or there is a reason for not shooting the 3.5's. They get to live, reproduce and survive another year, and potentially grow and mature. If the 1st is valid, why aren't these?

Nope - direct reply to TheHunter. I can't help you feeling guilt.

Obviously you read the last one but had trouble understanding it. If you did you would see it was not directed to you. Thanks for making my point. ;D

Try the real numbers. If you use the report to claim success, use all the report and do not accept some numbers, but dismiss others. Overall buck kill is down aprox 300 total 1.5 is down just under 400. Means 2.5 and 3.5 kill is only 100 more. Where did the other 300 1.5 Bucks go? ??? ??? ? They were probably shot up by brown its down people like you. Ever think the 1.5's turned into 2.5's and became smarter more mature deer? More aware of their surroundings, hunters, and other things. No matter what you say, what you spin, those who hunt in AR zones know the results. They see and shoot bigger more mature deer. They see more younger deer, they see more deer period. Keep shooting those spikes! Either you have not been reading my posts or you have a well defined ability to not understand them. This allows you to look like a complete horses azz when you call me a brown and downer and/or a spike shooter. Last buck I killed was 6 years ago - a 7pt that would would be legal with AR but was only a 1.5. Now waiting for something that is mature now - not the 2.5 or 3.5 that turn your crank and the majority of the AR whiners. I just don't believe my goals should be forced on others - especially for the vodoo science claims that AR will solve a problem that does not exist - unless the problem is hunters needing it easier to smoke those 2.5 trophies with 10lbs more meat. If they truly believed the need to alter the age structure for the benefit of the herd was real, they would not be shooting any buck less then 4.5. And if the support was as high as claimed there would be no need for AR unless the majority of the alleged supporters are too hypocritical to follow the guidlines that want voluntarily.

X2

I don't see a bit of difference. Catch and they get prosecuted 1st and every time. Didn't use to do that, tried the warning thing and things never changed. Always an excuse or an I'm sorry. Now zero tolerance - and I too sleep well. Recovery rights are worked out well prior to season instead of waiting to see if needed. Have agreement with all but one - because of his past actions, he will never be allowed to recover under any conditions and will be prosecuted if caught.

The big thing the bill does is make the crossbow a legal hunting weapon. For some odd reason, it never was legal as a hunting tool.

Scot - I take it you let all immature bucks walk then?

If these polls are true, who is shooting the 1.5 bucks?? A pro AR by width group did a study that show nearly 60% of the bucks in 7j,h,and f where 6 pts or better. Points based AR would simply target these and nearly all 2.5 meaning no change in 3.5 or in 4.5 or older truly mature deer.

Simple math: 1000 minus 300 = current buck kill vs old buck kill. 400 less 1.5 while increasing 2.5/3.5 only 100. Missing = 300 bucks

Try the real numbers. If you use the report to claim success, use all the report and do not accept some numbers, but dismiss others. Overall buck kill is down aprox 300 total 1.5 is down just under 400. Means 2.5 and 3.5 kill is only 100 more. Where did the other 300 1.5 Bucks go? ??? ??? ?

I have seen this point made several times over the lives of these AR threads, and I have never seen anyone rebut it. It seems there is something really wrong with the notion that AR is such a popular concept when apparently so few actually practice it. Why is there never any response to this point? Simple Doc - no one answers because they cannot. The numbers spreak for themselves. If 59% of the hunters support the concept of mandatory AR and only 18% strongly oppose, who is killing the all the 1.5 bucks!!!!!

How do they determine that 75% of the kill statewide are 1.5? If we don't use their numbers here, how can they be used to support the claim that 75% of the 1.5 are killed statewide - same assumption. Points are being used by supporters to claim that is the way to let 1.5 to walk - why can't they be used to determine if it's true? Out for the night.

Looks like overall buck harvest is down about 300 while 2.5 and 3.5 only went up about 100. Lowering the 1.5 harvest by 400 deer resulted in only a gain of 100 2.5/3.5's - and 300 less hunters where able to take a deer after several years of AR - hard to see the positive here.

So you don't have the real numbers - real proof. Never have said I support ending - just want to see the proof it works or doesn't so sound decisions will be made on attempts to extend it statewide. And this thread was started to discuss AR support for NYS. I do not see where it was for only discussing it in the current AR areas. I spent a little time on the link http://www.hvqdma.com/biological-needs-for-antler-restriction/ The letter by Dick Henry stating the need for AR is contradicted by the info in the link provided by HVQDMA "What is QDM http://www.hvqdma.com/quality-deer-management/ From that page" .There is no way that shooting 6pts or better will protect anything more then an extremely few 2.5 bucks - and all older spikes and and 4's.

I'll ask again - what are the buck kill numbers, both total and by age, for the last 7 years in the AR units? These numbers will give hard facts on what AR is doing or not doing.

What are the kill numbers - total and by age for the last 7 years?

6 and 8 pt 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5 are young immature deer. AR simply targets them them while letting <6 pts walk. Makes you wonder with supposed claim of 60% plus supporting AR who kills all these 1.5 bucks!!!!!!!!!!! I am anti mandatory AR, but have not shot a 1.5 and 2.5 buck in 8 years - from choice and not lack of opportunity. Either there are far less then 60% supporting it or there are a LOT of hypocrites. Those in the AR areas that are shooting bucks 3.5 or less are clearly demonstrating there actual lack of concern for improving the age structure - the main arguement for passing <6 pts while they shoot bucks solely because of the points on their head rather then their age.

Show me where QDM uses points based AR as a part of the program - never seen it in my readings. Particularly interested in the value for QDM in shooting young 1.5 and 2.5 6 point bucks.

A little older only - in no way is any buck mature at 2.5. If the age structure is in fact improving with any statistical significance, what is the % increase in mature (4.5 or older) bucks now vs pre AR? Actual kill numbers would be of great interest as well - both total buck and mature. These real numbers would provide real support for AR having a significant effect in those areas.

The 3 inch rule was a way to identify in the field buck vs doe to control doe harvest where needed - nothing to do with age. just as points have little to do with age either. And there is nothing anywhere in any true QDM program that uses AR points based programs. So don't call AR QDM unless you can take pride in being wrong.

I believe it is the end of Sept.

Full agreement on this one Doc. This is just another cleaned up attempt at the WHA from a few years back that where the "hunters" would dart, measure and release the deer. Catch and release is not what hunting is - the hunt is not about the kill, but without it as the objective, it is not hunting.

Check this out. Taking pictures with a scope on a rifle is going to find the best deer hunters????? Who the "best" are is a question I've never had any interest in asking. http://awapro.com/aboutAWA.html