steve863

You know you are a hunter when what you choose to shoot and how you go about doing it brings you great satisfaction. And that satisfaction should be carried from the field to the table. You know you are NOT a hunter when you obsess over how and what the guy on the next property is doing more than you do about your own hunting.

TheHunter, you can continue to hunt for bucks that are ten years old and toothless for all anyone here cares. Exactly why do have a problem with people shooting any deer that they happen to have a tag for and that they are happy with? So if someone is happy with that spike, you are going to walk up to him and tell him that he was a real jerk for shooting it? You are showing off your insecurities way more around here than anything else. It isn't about horns for many people. Many simply want to enjoy some time in the woods and anything they might be lucky enough to shoot they are happy with. And NO, most of these people aren't the "brown and it's down" type that you think they are. By insisting that everyone adapt to what YOU want, you are taking away what makes a lot of people happy. Sorry, I have NO doubt that you think you are right here, but I can assure you that you aren't.

Sorry, but your comments weren't the only ones I was referring to. I have been on this earth for 48 years now and I have observed that many people who like to frequently joke about drinking actually just might have drinking problems. Of course they will never admit it. The substance abuser is always the last one to realize that they do indeed have a real problem. I'm in complete agreement with Fasteddie on this one. I simply can't understand why anyone would need to bring booze into the woods at all. If one can't wait until after the hunt, then I think that person just might have a real drinking problem. You guys can argue it and about all your rights all you want. You yourselves were the ones who put suspicion into some of our minds, be it jokingly or otherwise.

I would have to agree. I've seen happier faces on inmates posing for their prison pictures! LOL Just pulling your leg.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Being allowed to shoot only 3 points to a side or better, does severely limit ones choices, though. No doe permits, No smaller bucks won't leave much else for the hunter, especially those who don't give a damn about antlers. Like someone else said the 3 points or better will without a doubt get gunned down no matter how small they might be, most especially if NOTHING else is legal to shoot. I simply can't see how AR's will ever improve things.

Yeah, there are reasons for no doe tags, but what good will AR's now do in these same areas?? Absolutely NOTHING! They don't need to give out the doe tags if they think there isn't enough deer, but if you also tell people that the buck needs to be at least 3 points to the side before they can shoot them, exactly what else does it leave for hunters to shoot?? Even if everyone would get to see a 3 point per side and get a shot at it(which is unlikely), how will it help the overall deer picture? Exactly NO different than if smaller bucks continued to be legal to shoot. Only in the figment of the imaginations of those who see big "antlers" as what's most important to them in hunting will AR's be a benefit.

Like I said it just boggles my mind how anyone can be supporting something that pretty much won't allow them to hunt much of anything anymore. When I hear an AR supporter asking the question "will AR's make it easier for them to get a doe tag?" it tells me that some AR are not very well informed of what is really going on in the area, thus shouldn't be blindly supporting anything.

Absolutely NOT. In a couple of units that already have AR's in effect, you need preference points for a doe tag as is the case in a number of the new units that will have AR's. I think this is something that some supporters of AR's aren't grasping here. It won't make it easier at all to get a doe tag. In fact when people see that they aren't getting doe tags and aren't allowed to shoot a smaller buck, maybe then they will figure out that there really isn't much left that will be legal to shoot. All the AR/QDM mumbo jumbo about letting the little ones walk and shoot a doe instead don't hold water in much of the Catskills when there are NO bloody doe tags given out to shoot that doe instead of the young buck! That is what boggles my mind on exactly why anyone would support AR's in an area where doe permits are difficult to get.

I don't know. I have nothing against someone having a drink after the hunt if that is what they want to do, but some of you are sure as hell feeding the stereotype of hunters being drunken slobs running around the woods with firearms. The stereotype may not be far from the truth from what I am reading here. Not a good image for us to put out there.

That is what some other member of the forum was driving at recently in another thread. He said that a DEC official told him that the real reasons behind AR's are simply to reduce the deer kill in the area along with giving out very few doe permits. Now I could accept this, but my problem is why doesn't the DEC come out and actually tell us the truth?? Why all the talking from both sides of their mouth saying that AR's aren't biologically needed and then also expanding them throughout the Catskills? Just tell us the bloody truth. I think in their own convoluted way of thinking the DEC probably thinks that many hunters would be giving it up and not buying licenses anymore if they somehow came out and said that the deer population in the area simply isn't big enough to be hunted the way it used to be. They might be right, I bet plenty would be giving it up, and of course that would cost the DEC a good chunk of change since their are a good many hunters in the area, but I also think many hunters can accept the truth far better than they could the constant double talk.

That's what AR's are all about to some of you, aren't they? To stop the other guys on the next property from killing the bucks that you think belong to you? Guess what? It ain't all about antlers to many hunters out there.

Hunting as we once knew it in our region is now GONE. I am sure there are a number of people on this forum who are gloating and couldn't be happier. I can assure them that their day is coming soon also. They may see this as a victory for themselves, but all it really is, is a HUGE loss for anyone who enjoys the simple pleasures of hunting and the overall hunting tradition of the Catskill region.

What a pile of crap, most especially with the AR's. Again and again the DEC keeps regurgitating that they don't see any biological benefits to AR's, yet now they have implemented them everywhere in the Catskill region. I simply can't understand nor accept this double talk. As some have mentioned already, exactly what reasons will some of us have to hunt in the Catskill region?? In many of the units it's hard to draw a doe permit and some don't even issue any, so maybe someone could give me a good reason why the f--- should we even bother to go out hunting?? Also, if the bow tags won't be allowed to be used where there are no doe permits issued, hunters will have next to nothing to shoot in any of the seasons! Unbelievable!! I forget what forum member made a post a while back stating that the real reason behind AR's was to curtail deer hunting in the region. I think he was absolutely right! What the hell should we bother wasting our time and money buying a license and going hunting. I sure as hell may not. I will find a place in a southern state somewhere where I can shoot a doe or two and call it a hunting season. I will probably have only a few days out of each year to hunt, but you know what?? Why waste ANY of my time and money in the Catskills to be allowed to shoot next to nothing?

Not exactly what I'm looking to shoot, but it probably be best to put the poor critter out of his misery! LOL

LOL! We were trying to keep things clean and not use that word, but then Biz-R-O drops in! Man, I've got to admit your posts are entertaining as hell!

Whatever makes you sensitive souls happy is fine with me! LOL You can even send me a QDM patch to wear. I promise to wear it. I will probably wear it under my shoe, but I promise to wear it. LOL

If I get a big one I will change my name to steveQDM. Maybe it will help get the QDM supporters to like me. On second thought it probably won't! LOL

Believe me, you did. All it really takes is an honest look at it and one should be able to make sense of it. I don't know how QDM could ever get away from being viewed as trophy management. Where did it originate after all? Texas. Where else is emphasis on "trophies" any bigger or more money thrown at hunting for that big buck? And YES, I have hunted in Texas, twice, so I do have some first hand knowledge. QDM is guilty as charged from the start, trying to prove themselves innocent will be a monumental task for them.

True, but few of us would consider it hunting if we went out to shoot one of them.

Being an association made up of hunters, how could they possibly persuade anyone that the concern they have for the deer is greater than their personal concerns in trying to make the hunting better for themselves? It probably all goes hand in hand, but anyone looking at it honestly will see what the real reasons behind it was from the very start.

Do you want this to take place in New York state? I doubt you will get it done here. I think it could probably be arranged in a southern state, where you don't even need a prior hunting license from another state in some of them or safety training. Is it a good idea to hunt without some prior training? No.

Really, that's the best explanation you can give?

Holy Jesus! When I made that statement, YOU hadn't even posted yet, so why do you think it's only YOU who I am accusing? If you believe that QDM SHOULD be followed by everyone and the state should mandate it, then YES, I am accusing you. If you believe that QDM should be followed by only those who want to and everyone else is free to do what they wish, than you are off the hook. I've got to tell you and I could care less who it offends. Some of you food plotters, QDM, AR, people are some of the most sensitive souls walking Gods green earth. You guys flip out over anyone questioning your ideologies even in the slightest!!

OK, so here is a question to you QDM gurus. Exactly why must food plots, supplemental feeding or whatever you want to call it be part of QDM? If you go to their website food plot seeds and stuff like that is the first thing that flashes at you. Now I could understand their philosophies (eventhough I may not agree) behind letting smaller bucks walk, shooting does, etc, but why must humans feeding wildlife be part of the picture? The DEC of course has done some double talk on feeding wildlife where they say that it's generally not a good idea http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/74763.html, but yet they have NO problems with food plots. Like I've said in other threads I have NO problem with people planting food plots on their land or hunting over them, I would just like some real justification behind feeding wildlife, period. This is another big crux for many of us who don't buy into this QDM business. We see humans feeding cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. on farms as a necessity to have them grow before they are eventually slaughtered to feed us. Where and why exactly should humans now feed deer or any wildlife?? Isn't that one of the main concepts behind hunting, where we go out and hunt for free ranging animals, animals that are supposed to be fending for themselves? If we feed them, how are they then different than the cattle, pigs and chickens? Is that the idea here, where we sort of want to domesticate deer? Lots of ethical questions here for some of us. If it's wildlife, why not keep them wild and fending for themselves? Yeah, hunting itself plays into their overall survival, but exactly why must feeding them now be a part of the game?? Surely doesn't make sense to me and as I've said I'd love to hear some of the QDM gurus give their own take on this. Up to now we have generally considered animals that were fed by humans to be domestic animals and those that weren't as wild. Exactly what is the difference now??

No, read thru the thread. I made my first post before he ever did.