steve863

Why would you not have the opportunity to shoot a nice buck without AR's if you hunted hard and knew what you were doing? Doesn't matter where you hunt, either. Where on earth did all these bucks get shot out?? Not in NYS that's for sure. Plenty of deer were shot well before AR's were ever thought of and the hunting season was never completely shut down as far as I remember for lack of deer or bucks. Sure, not all of them were trophies, are they all trophies today with AR's?? No way! Never will be either.

I like this. Although in my case, I don't think I ever became obsessed with horns at anytime. Just getting to fill a tag and having some venison for the freezer was reward enough. Those who continue to want trophies can continue to do so, yet AR's shouldn't be implemented to penalize anyone else who doesn't care for trophies.

Wow, the world MUST be coming to an end. Doc actually has NO opinion on something. I think it's all a ploy to get on the good side with any women that might be on this site. He's probably figuring that in his advancing years he might get lucky one more time before he departs for the final happy hunting grounds!

Just as long as it's not during the bow season. The bowhunters associations wouldn't like this anymore than they do crossbows!

Your right, Doe. All the DEC cares about is that deer get shot, they don't care if they are .5, 1.5, 2.5 or any specific age. The AR people better start getting used to this. The only people who care about this age nonsense are the AR people, and we all know why. It has nothing to do with general herd health either. A 1.5 buck would be passing the same genetics on to his offspring as a 5.5 would. It's all about how big them horns might be on the ones they hopefully will get to shoot if we somehow can let them get older. That's ALL it is in a nutshell! Everything else is baloney.

Look bud, I don't consider myself more of a patriot or any such nonsense. I surely own foreign made products and have no problem with that. We all own cameras and maybe some of us hunted different locals BEFORE you ever did. The difference is that we don't post pictures, videos or brag about any of it and claim that the products we buy are somehow better than anyone else's like you did in the other thread where you posted the video that claimed expensive europeans rifles are less likely to blow up than American rifles if the barrel would become plugged. I don't care what you want to shoot and how much you want to spend for it. My first reply here was to Culver on what I would do in his shoes, and YOU somehow took the liberty to give me all the details and attributes of your Blaser. I can easily look up what the going price of these guns is. I say they are way overpriced for what you are getting, but of course it's your money and ego, so do whatever you wish.

Whatever, bud!! Most people don't post glossy photos of their weapons and give us their complete resumes like you like to. Some of us buy the plain jane American guns and are happy with them and can kill game with them just the same or better than you can. It's nice to know that you do own some American guns, but of course YOUR'S are mostly "custom". LOL

And how in God's name is this FACT?? You say 67% supported it in the unit they tried to implement AR's in last year. Well, I hunt in that unit and know quite a few others who do also. I personally asked everyone of them whether or not any of them had been polled on AR's. Not ONE of them had anyone ever ask them anything about AR's so who exactly are the 67%? Are they 67% of some mysterious "sportsman's" club who fed this info to anyone who wanted to listen?? Well, I wrote my letter to the DEC telling them that no one had polled me or any of the people I know and spelled out our opinions on AR's and why they shouldn't be implemented. Not that my letter had anything to do with the DEC shooting down AR's in these units, but at least if there were other similar opinions expressed also it got the DEC to see the reality of some of the nonsensical statistics that were being thrown around on how many people out there actually might be true supporters. The reality is that most hunters want to get a deer, any deer. If it happens to be a big buck, fine, if not, most are still very content to get anything. THESE are the hunters who make up the majority in the state and NOT the guys pushing for AR's.

LOL! I know I will sound sexist for saying it, but when I see some of the women hunters on these shows called "Pro Staff" it really makes me laugh. Even that Tiffany Lakosky who many hunters seem to drool over seems like a complete joke to me. I love it when she is walking up to one of her dead deer. She is tripping and stumbling like she doesn't even know how to walk in a pair of hunting boots or even ever walked thru the woods. I actually prefer bird hunting shows over any big-game hunting shows. Whitetail hunting shows are by far the worst. Nothing but horn pornography in my opinion with a southern accent in the majority of cases. Big boobs and curvy butts are substituted for by big horns with the viewer at home fast-forwarding his remote control to the juicy parts. Anyone ever watch that show "Hunting with Hank" where the guy bird hunts with his dog? His show too me represents what hunting is and should be way more than any other big-game show I ever saw. He's just a guy enjoying a great day afield in some nice looking country. Very simple, but shows the essence of hunting a heck of a lot better.

Dinsdale, you are obviously a big fan. You practically posted and infomercial for them here. I don't think we doubt that they will kill game, but when I could practically buy two perfectly fine American made rifles along with scopes for the price of an extra Blaser barrel, I don't know how much of an advantage it would be to own a Blaser. Since you posted a video of African hunting, I would still bet that more game is taken over there with the more traditional Mauser, Winchester, Remington type actions than there is with Blaser guns.

The only reason AR's were implemented in the 4 WMU's is because you had some vocal "sportsman's" groups pushing for it. The same was tried in the Delaware county, the county I hunt in last year. Again we had some unknown "sportsman's" groups in the county pushing for it but luckily the DEC smartened up and figured that "sportsman's" group don't necessarily represent ALL hunters in the area and shot it down. So what is happening here is that we are getting some unknown sportsman's group coming out of left field and trying to push everyone else around. That is BS and I am glad that the DEC finally woke up and realized what was happening here. If there could be a poll done of EVERY hunter that hunts these regions, I will guarantee anyone that AR's would lose out. The DEC saying that there is NO biological need for AR's says it all in my opinion, and shoots any of these theories that AR's are good for a deer herd right out of the water. PA's recent report pretty much says the same thing also. AR's are for trophy hunters who want to try to make it easier for themselves and that is pretty much it. Since there is no biological need for them according the the game departments, what else can they be?? I dare anyone to give me a good answer. I will say this to the proponents of AR's and those who hunt in the regions where AR's are in effect. Enjoy them while you can, because it won't be long before they are history!

Is this the one with interchangeable barrels? I think there is a newer version out right now also. They are european guns, so they are without a doubt expensive compared to American made production guns. I don't know how low he will sell it to you for, but that would surely be the determining factor whether I would ever buy it or not. I'm sure it would be a good gun, but accuracy wise probably no better than most American guns that could be bought for a lot less. I guess it all depends on what one likes.

Funny, but I was thinking the same about pushing in a metal rod into the barrel when I was reading this thread. I know a lot of shooters are hung up on being careful not to damage the crowns and rifling with cleaning rods and such, yet have no problem sticking and jimmying in a boresighting rod to get their guns to shoot straight without wasting too much ammo. Kind of doesn't make sense. I inherited a rifle from my late uncle that looks like he put a file to the crown. It was a bolt action yet he cleaned it with a cheap rod from the front end. Man, he did a number on that crown, but the gun still shoots darn good, so I don't know how much one needs to worry about putting a nick into it. It's not like bullets sizzling out of the barrel are any less kind to it either.

Right, I said everyone, clearly you don't READ. I said everyone I'VE TALKED TO IN PERSON WITH FIRST HAND EXPERIANCE. And clearly by there just being a few posters on there all you haters are not talking from first hand experiance otherwise they would be on there complaining about it. My first hand experience is that at least two hunters I know have quit hunting their own land in one of these units because they can't get doe permits AND don't want to be restricted to a buck of six points. They have little incentive to hunt there, and why would they not? They now hunt on a relatives land in a county without AR's. I hunted with them on their land years before AR's were ever even dreamed of. Back then bucks of all sizes were taken way more regularly, along with just about everyone getting a doe tag. Today they apply for doe tags and get JACK and can't shoot a buck unless it's a six point. Go ahead and try telling them that the hunting is better now than it was then. Plenty of their friends in the area are in agreement with them also. Unfortunately most of them aren't so lucky in finding another location to hunt.

Did you ever consider that you might now have a bit more hunting experience under your belt than you did when you hunted the same areas before AR's and that might be a reason you are seeing more and better deer? I know hunters who have hunted for years and still can't spot deer if their lives depended on it. Experience makes most hunters more observant and an experienced hunter will spot any deer a heck of a lot quicker than a novice would. Lots of factors can come into play with seeing deer, least of which is AR's.

Yeah, like six posters on the thread are for it and this proves that EVERYONE in those units is gung-ho for AR's? Come on now!

This is what you don't seem to understand. Without AR's you could still shoot what YOU want and everyone else can shoot what they want. With AR's YOU are getting the advantage you want, while others can no longer shoot what they want and are put at a disadvantage You surely would, even without AR's. You just want to try to make it easier for yourself with AR's. No more selfish than what you want. Everything we do in life has some sort of selfish reason behind it. The thing is that without AR's, EVERYONE can go about their selfish ways whichever way they want. WITH AR's you get YOUR selfish ways, while you are taking away the selfish ways of others.

And that 6 pt in my area has a nearly 60% chance of being a 1.5 buck - same as the spike. The guy who shot the 6 pt 1.5 year old buck will surely have the bragging rights, though!

You say you aren't putting anyone down for shooting anything legal, but at the same time want you want the legal buck to be a six point and not a spike. Why should there be anymore importance on what you want in comparison to the guys who are perfectly happy with that spike? It IS all about antlers to you guys, and please don't try to tell us that it isn't. AR's are nothing but an attempt by hunters obsessed with antlers to make it easier for themselves and to have some bragging rights that their buck is a tiny bit bigger than the other guys. All nonsense if you ask me. It's like you telling me that your weener is bigger than mine. In the scheme of things it's all so irrelevant.

I don't know for sure if what you say here is true or not, but I WILL take your word for it. So if there are plenty of these small legal bucks around, do you think everyone in these AR zones will be letting them pass in order to let them grow a bit more and become true trophies?? NO way, most especially in the units where doe permits are scarce. They will be gunning them down just the same as spikes and forkhorns are gunned down in the zones without AR's. End result?? You STILL will never have those monster bucks you guys dream that AR's will bring you. All you guys might have now is bragging rights that you killed a small 6 or 8 pointer in comparison to other guys who kill the spikes and forkhorns in the zones without AR's. Just as I've seen hunters do many a time over the years. Some guys think they have bragging rights when they shoot a piddly 7 pointer in comparison to his buddies piddly 5 pointer. It all makes very little sense to me, that's for darn sure!

I guess there is only so much they could put into a 30 minute show of which about 15 minutes are commercials. As much as some of them try to tell us that it isn't about big antlers, it seems like it certainly IS about big antler to them and little else. Why should they or anyone else really care about B&C or P&Y scores?? Enjoying hunting and the outdoors has absolutely nothing to do with what the antlers score. These shows are brainwashing ALL hunters into thinking that it's all about antlers and that is really sad. There is already too much competition in our lives, with jobs, school, having everything and more than your neighbor has, etc. If we at least left this element out of hunting, it would make the pastime a heck of a lot more enjoyable, this I can guarantee anyone.

Thats stuff is an issue for all of us.. what about a pair of foreceps or clamps like a Doctor would use, could your hands deal with those or would they still lock up? Sometimes I leave it on and get it off when I thaw it to cook it, makes it a little easier. That's what I do also. I don't think anyone could ever get every bit of it off before the meat is frozen anyway. It seems that on the hams especially, there is layer upon layer of the stuff. Sometimes you think you got it all off and then it seems that it somehow has magically reappeared while you were cutting it off on another part of the ham. I guess it's our penance for having murdered the deer in the first place!

14 years old might be a bit too old, but having no minimum age doesn't exactly sound like a great idea either. Should we all trust parents in deciding that their 10 year old is a good enough driver to drive on the road?? I don't think so. Yeah, some kids are smarter than others at earlier ages but in general it isn't a bad idea to have a minimum age set. Plus, I honestly think that most kids under the age of 10 are really not capable of handling a big-game weapon, be it a bow or gun, to make clean kills. I surely think they should be accompanied by adults at all times, but it still wouldn't help their weapon handling capabilities and accuracy much with or without the adults by their side in the heat of the moment. Heck many adults get flustered and unraveled at the sight of game. How much can we really expect from a young child? The totally botched shot could cause more harm to the child than waiting a couple of extra years until we are more sure that they have what it takes to hunt. I think the best thing to do with a child is to take him hunting well before he is allowed to actually carry a weapon. This will keep his interest alive better than having him butcher a shot before he really should have been shooting at game.

I highly doubt there is a store owner/gunsmith alive that will lap the rings of every scope he installs. Sounds like a nice sales pitch to me and nothing else. Plus, the majority of scopes installed will never need scope ring lapping if installed properly. Will shoot plenty good without ever needing lapping.

I for one know a couple of guys who own 30 acres of land in one of the AR units where doe permits are next to impossible to get. They don't have enough land to get a landowners doe permit, so what have they decided to do?? They are now hunting on another relatives land in another county without AR's and where chances of getting a doe permit are better, that's what!! They now own land that they don't even want to hunt on! Absolutely NO way is the support for AR's as great as Fairgame is making it out to be. I would not be surprised in the least if AR's are scrapped from those units in the next few years. Absolutely NO way will it swing that one can't even get a doe permit in a couple of these units and then not be allowed to shoot a buck unless it has 3 points on a side. I don't want to hear the excuse that these hunters can still shoot a doe with a bow or muzzleloader if they wanted to either. The majority of hunting licenses sold are for the regular gun season. One does not need to invest in more equipment and become proficient with it just so they could have a chance at a deer. Again, this won't swing for very long. AR's are a pipe dream that will come to a screeching end sooner than their proponents realize!