nyantler

Age is the primary factor in the sense that you can have all the nutrition in the world and still won't have a 1.5 year old buck with a huge rack.. are there some exceptions? of course... sam's example of adirondack bucks is a good one.. they have very limited food source yet generally older adirondack bucks will have far bigger racks than any agricultural 1.5 and 2.5 year old Nutrition is the primary factor if we're talking abou mature buck versus mature buck.. as a general rule a well feed mature buck will produce a larger rack than a mature buck with limited food source.

doesn't look as symetrical as the Hansen buck, but could be a contender... but I'm thinking deductions will drop it below the world record.

Hey.. I think it's policy here not to put up a persons personal info without their permission.. regardless if he might be a DB.

Done

NOT!

Doesn't appear to me that you get it at all...

Well you go on teaching yourself about death while you're hunting or search for the meaning of life... maybe it will take a few more throat cuttings before you'll understand your own mortality... and I don't treasure deer meat.. I treasure my family... i eat deer meat because it taste good... I understand that it comes from one of Gods creatures.. I learned that in grade school... I also have experienced enough children dying of cancer, and the loss of loved ones to understand human mortality... I try to keep my hunting as a way of distancing myself from all those unpleasantries and just stick to enjoying my time in the woods while hunting... I don't force reverence of wildlife on myself by slitting an animals throat.. it happens all by itself just by the experiences I have in the woods and I can feel it whether I kill something or not... if you want to learn something about death .. go to your local children oncology ward.. I promise you won't need to kill a deer to learn what you need to know about the importance of life.

you are absolutely correct culver.. but we aren't talking about pain.. pain is not an emotion and doesn't require congnitive thought to feel... suffering is subjective and deer are not capable of being subjective

so where were we before you guys jumped into the kiddie pool?? oh yeah.. yes,deer feel pain.. they just don't process it the same way.. and they don't know what the word suffering means.. we do.. so we think we can determine when a deer is suffering... and I don't need to cut a throat to have reverence for an animal or for human life... cutting a deer's throat is what we were talking about right?

I figured if I left you fellas long enough you'd find a way have some fun and stop thinking that we all need to reflect everytime we experience death in the wild... I would have joined in but I was bug hunting in Montezuma swamp.. I think something bit me while i was hunting.. I'm feeling kinda funny

AHHA That is where you are not seeing the point.. we are not looking for gaurantees.. just better chances.! when you pass on a buck you have increased his chance of surviving.. simply by not killing him right then and there. and if all other hunters did the same he would have an even greater chance of getting older... in fact every time someone passes on him .. he actually gets a little older..

yes this thread is both interesting and hilarious!!

ok let me explain the 50/50 thing to ya... if you kill any deer (not just 1.5 year old) that deer has 0% chance of getting any older.. if you don't kill the deer you have just raised its chances to half a chance that it survives until next year and half a chance he gets killed before next year... 50%=1/2 so you have immediatey increased his chance of survival by half.. 50/50.. meaning the next guy has two choices kill or pass... 2 choices, 1 decision ... giving the deer 1 in 2 chances of living or 50/50.. I hope that is much clearer... If not .. I give up and you're a hopeless case..lol

I really think we agree but not necessarily in the same way... I am for AR's but ok with guys taking what they want.. you don't like the AR part... I'm a meat hunter... but I don't use small bucks for meat.. you shoot anything for meat... I don't think all bucks are trophies.. I do think some small bucks can be trophies... etc... we are somewhat similar but definitely not the same... and I really think that there are lots of things all of us hunters have in common... if we all agreed on everything this wouldn't be much of a forum... it would be more of a circle jerk with everyone taking turns saying what all the others wanted to hear..

I don't believe it.. you really don't understand the term 50/50... I thought you were kidding. How about "Six of one, half a dozen of another"???

That was exactly my point.. it was sarcasm and there is a division between meat hunters and guys that like bigger bucks.. the meat hunters don't like us much... I am a meat hunter as well I just happen to shoot does for meat and bucks for antlers... I don't use meat hunting as a way to justify the type of deer I take.. venison is not that hard to come by if your family is going hungry... I don't think that licensed hunters are in a position where they are in dire need of venison to sustain their families life... so it is a poor excuse for killing a deer that you say you wouldn't have take otherwise... and tagging it with a payed for tag ... when you could have used the license money to buy food for your family... then attack the antler hunters because you feel bad about the small buck you shot... but anyway.. how about the size of that buck?? He's a beauty!!

haha.. that is always the response when someone tries to explain biological facts on here about whitetails...so, if I have to explain further you definitely wouldn't understand... I don't understand the need to be reminded of what I'm doing in the woods... some of you spout out stuff like being human and taking good shots and learning about the gravity of killing a deer.. yet can't rap yourself around the importance of buck age structure, and buck to doe ratios... or even why knowing when legal shooting time is... I think you all like saying stuff that makes you feel good... because you think that is what we all want to hear... I think it would be ridiculous to tell any hunter that he should cut a deers throat because he needs to learn something about appreciating the gravity of death or whats necessary to eat the food he likes... you really can't learn that without slittting a deers throat?... I don't need to dig that deep into my head to enjoy a little hunting.

50/50 means just what it says it does.. I really hope you don't need me to explain that to you...and I wasn't necessarily refering to you as getting bent out of shape... I was talking about those that do... and I think that the reason some guys ask about scores and take or not take is because maybe they are considering shooting bigger bucks only and are looking for guidance as to what might or might not be considered big to other hunters... If a hunter is worrying about "fitting in".. their problem is much worse than the type of bucks they are shooting... the day I start caring about what others think about how or why I hunt is the day I should quit hunting... it's not all that important in the scheme of life...

This humane stuff is crazy.. deer don't process pain the same as humans... suffering is a human emotion and doesn't exist in the animal kingdom as an emotion... it is only relative to what humans consider suffering... our suffering is not their suffering... so a shot to the heart, head, ass, foot with a bow or a gun means nothing to a deer, only to the hunter.. that is why many times hunters see badly wounded deer going about their regular daily routine .. they exist on instinct and instinct alone... they live.. they die.. its that simple

I didn't say that.. I said there is nothing to be gained as it pertains to hunting.. there is no reason for a lesson to be learned about death while hunting... slitting a deers throat has no bearing on why, where when or how we hunt... watching an animal die can be done without hand to hand combat... I get no appreciation for anything watching someone or cutting a deers throat myself... what have you learned other than you are capible of killing something with your bare hands.. I learned that in 28 years of martial arts.. I didn't need to actually kill something to learn it.

oops wrong thread!!

It matters because some guys like that kinda stuff... it may not matter to you.. but it does to others...thats why we have a forum to discuss things with hunters that have similar likes and dislikes... some of you get bent out of shape about threads you don't like.. yet you continue to post on them... and Four Season is right on the money with the 50/50 chance thing... I don't see any assumption or fuzzy math in his post...

I didn't say there was anything wrong with shooting it... the statement is very clear... you don't have to justify the kill to me or anyone else for that matter...

Damn hunters that shoot those big antlered bucks... what a waste of meat... don't they realize that only does and small antlered bucks have meat... that seems to be what we hear from the meat hunters... oh yeah.. great buck by the way!!

Todays hunting does not require that we need to experience anything other than taking the animal from the herd... the only reason there is still hunting is for the purpose of conservation.. hunters may think differently... they may say its for the meat, or the sport... yeah that might be their reason.. but that is not the reason that hunting is still allowed.... it is the only proven means of population control that still allows the rest of the animal in the herd to live in their habitat normally.. there is absolutely nothing to be gained by killing a deer with your bare hands that has anything to do with hunting. Killing deer is meant to be as efficient as possible and not an educational tool to learn about death.