nyantler

some of the photos that hunters take after their kill. Capturing the memory of a deer harvest could be a once in a lifetime thing for many hunters...Do yourself a favor and read this. Years from now when you want to recall that memory again you'll be glad you did. http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/photographing-your-deer.html

I've grunted deer in from 200 yards away... I've also watched bucks chasing does at that distance and could hear the buck grunting. The only time I grunt softly is when the buck is close.

Moe additions to camp

I've killed numerous bucks by blind calling... I use mine like a turkey call. I've said it before and I'll say it again... Other than your weapon of choice, the grunt call is the most valuable tool for killing bucks. When tracking I have used it to get a buck that I know is bedded somewhere nearby to move so I can locate his whereabouts before I get busted

I use to save all my tarsel glands from my bucks... like G-man says they work best away from your normal hunting area. It's like introducing a new buck to the mix.. the mature bucks definitely don't care for the new intruder and will come to investigate... grunting works well with tarsel.

My ethics are based on what is right and wrong... I don't try to justify that which I know is wrong... pretty simple concept really... adhering to that rule makes life much easier.

I agree that not all things legal are ethical and vice versa... but in the specific case that started this debate one relates to the other. Shooting outside of legal shooting times would be against good hunting ethics based on the rules of fair chase... not to mention poaching. There may be some things that are not unethical by virtue of being illegal this is not one of them.

So this illegal behavior is due to the fact that there was a moral or ethical question to the law which makes it hard to adhere to... or maybe the illegal behavior happened because of the persons inability to do something as important as kill a deer within the time frame provided by law...$ See we aren't talking about a law that, let's say, goes against our Constitution... we are talking about the shooting hours law... which is very clear and equally fair for every hunter. No rights are taken away from anyone... and it gives no hunter in NY an unfair advantage over another. Not sure I see the problem. If your shooting outside the allotted time frame you are being unethical based on the rules of fair chase, plus your giving yourself an unfair advantage over the law abiding hunters that would have had an opportunity at the deer that you are poaching.. yes, it is poaching by definition.

How you feel and what is ethical are two different things... if your the type of person that is okay with breaking the laws, like them or not, your ethics and your integrity are in question. Trying to rationalize it with the "how you feel" argument is, again, trying to justify what you know to be wrong. Because you don't feel like a sleaze ball, doesn't mean you aren't one. Good move though trying to defend the indefensible by throwing in the extenuating circumstances argument...another feeble justification for what you still know to be wrong. You're right it doesn't make you a monster to take a deer 3 minutes after sunset.. it does however speak to your integrity. This conversation however started with a guy that had no idea that sunrise and sunset was an actual time... didn't read the rule book... and didn't much care what the rule was... If you don't think that is unethical, I'm gonna start calling you Hillary!

I love how there are those that speak of ethics and respect for the animal, yet have no problem taking a deer after hours. The pathetic desperation for a deer must be overpowering... the lack of ability to kill a deer during legal shooting hours... what a tug of war that must be in their mind.

I think the problem here is the use of the term "our season". The seasons are not mine, yours, or ours they are just "the" season. Each utilizes the seasons based on their interest in that season. I do however believe that most hunters would forego using the bow if their was not a specific season for archery... if there was just a "deer" season I think the gun would win over most hunters as the weapon of choice. For that reason alone I would not like to see the seasons change much from the way they are set up now. Each has it's place and allows for different hunting experiences for all hunters.

Back in 1997 I had a TV show that had a segment about deer vocalizations... That show was the first ever to air a buck up close and personal doing both that clicking and the snort wheeze... the buck was actually drooling while doing the clicking vocalization. Both vocalizations were filmed for the first time ever by a friend of mine, David Oathout, the creator of the "True Talker" grunt call now owned by Hunter Specialties. I have hours of footage that show deer doing every vocalization under the sun... some that hunters probably have never heard. The clicking, like the snort wheeze, is a sign of aggression by an annoyed buck... usually due to the presence of another unwanted buck. I had phone calls from all over the US by game call producers asking about those vocalizations... it was a few years later that the idea of using the snort wheeze caught on with hunters as a viable vocalization for calling in a buck. I might be one of the few that actually use and have killed a buck using the clicking which can be easily done with most calls.

You make up for it with number of posts per thread... LOL

Somehow I'm not worried about sending this thread off topic... this year I have had numerous comments on my page from "hunters" that didn't know about the doe only areas they were hunting in, some that had no idea that you could use a crossbow in NY, some that didn't know you could kill a bear in NY, and one that thought the northern tier hunting seasons were the same as the southern tier... and of course.. those who had no idea of the sunrise - sunset shooting hours... they didn't realize that sunrise and sunset were actually a time... scary!

Yes... it isn't that big of a deal.. I also read the syllabus every year so that I know what the rules are... you should try that instead of making up your own as you go along!

You can question the law.. you just aren't suppose to break it. Lots of laws are changed after large groups petition or lobby otherwise. I have heard lots of hunters complain about the sunrise - sunset law, but I have never seen an active lobby by hunters against it in NY. If hunters don't like the law then ban together to get it changed.

So then.. because I can still see a turkey in the daylight at 3 pm in May.. I should be able to kill it.. even thought the law says hunting ends at 12 pm. It isn't about whether you agree with the law or not... it is about doing the right thing and following the law. Anything else is you trying to justify doing what you know to be wrong... whether you own it or not.

I think there needs to be a division between the silent killing and the "guns-a-blazing" season. I have always thought things were set up just fine to accommodate both styles. Having said that, I also think there is an element of the bow hunting population that has an elitist attitude. But overall, it is a small (yet loud) percentage of all the bow hunters in NY. I think we can put the "selfish" label in any of the segments. It is part of the human condition and should be expected... it will always be that way. The trick is for hunters to start paying more attention to what they are doing and stop worrying about how others do it. But unfortunately, being up in everyone else's business is part of the human condition as well. Frankly, I like separating myself from all the BS and focusing on just enjoying myself while I'm in the woods and not worrying about what others are doing unless it directly affects my safety. Maybe some would even call that selfish... but it works for me.

Yep.. that about proves it!

I hear this guy is quite the sportsman... caught 10 brook trout one Sunday last March, snagged a couple big salmon in Pulaski in Sept... killed a 20 lb. hen turkey last May... and shot a big NY 10-point with crossbow 5 years ago. Way to go! Next year hopefully a trophy Bald Eagle.

I use the grunt call all season long... I still believe it is the single best tool other than my weapon for seeing and taking deer.

I would just like to take the time to thank all of you that have submitted stories and photos to my Facebook page and website. I appreciate you allowing my readers a chance to get a look at your exceptional NY bucks and share in some of the stories. I also would like to say that anyone here is welcome to submit stories or photos of their successful hunts. I know that I and other NY hunters enjoy reading the stories and seeing the bucks. I certainly enjoy bringing them to the readers. Thank you.

Can't say that I will be using one anytime soon... maybe if there was snow on I might try and track a buck and kill it with crossbow... that might be fun. I can say that I have received quite a few crossbow success photos... and some decent bucks too. I think opening on Nov. 7th had an impact on the number of people getting out with a crossbow.

Apathy!

Happy Birthday Bill