nyantler

True... Those deer could be deer that have left snow county in search of a place to survive the winter... you won't find a deer this time of year in say Redfield. They migrate out to wintering areas with the first sign of snow early in winter. It is their only way of surviving those heavy snowfall areas like Tug Hill.

Although I think we may see more AR areas... I doubt that they will reduce the number of bucks we can take or shorten deer season... neither plays into their goal for population control... the only reason they're caving on the AR thing is because it has already been proven that buck kill numbers will recover to normal levels after just a couple years.

I don't think the DEC has a "goal" when it comes to bucks... there only concern is population control and trying to keep hunter numbers up.

Hence.. the reason 3 on a side is not an ample antler restriction for getting good buck age structure and only serves to protect a portion of smaller bucks. It falls way short of extending age classes beyond 3.5 years old.

Not this time.. the Feds don't arrest people unless there is going to be hell to pay... not to mention they said to "Stay tuned".. meaning this is only the tip of the iceberg... he's gonna turn over and others are gonna go down as well... you watch.

The truth is that if we're doing AR's to stretch the age structure... that would be part of a deer management move, which is about conservation and any affect it has on the taste of deer meat is irrelevant... unless hunters do what they always do and look at management in terms of what it can do for the hunter over what it can do for the deer... If we as hunters do what is necessary to properly manage whitetails based on the habitat available, everything else that benefits the hunter will fall into place. There will be plenty of healthy deer to hunt, plenty of mature bucks to hunt, plenty of healthy young does to eat, etc. etc. I find it funny that hunters will eat hamburger, hotdogs, sausage and other meat products made with the lesser parts of a cow or whatever other animal meat is thrown in that stuff... Yet when it comes to venison, and those that need it to "feed their families", only the prime most tender venison will do... LOL

Yeah I agree with you about the competition thing... I never understood the hunter vs. hunter thing either... I have always been for recording exceptional examples of big whitetail bucks for future generations of hunters to see... probably because I am one of those that appreciates the majesty that the antlers give the mature whitetail buck.. and like it or not, those big antlered bucks are the rarest and hardest to find (let alone kill) of all the whitetails. At this stage in my hunting life, that challenge is where I get my satisfaction... along with the adventures of each hunt and the stories those hunts create. The implementation of AR's would have no impact for me personally... My only acceptance of AR's comes from the belief in a broad buck age structure in a good deer management program... The idea of using AR's to increase the amount of trophy bucks in the deer population does not interest me... I have spent most of my hunting life trying to find the most challenging ways to kill a mature buck... not the easiest. I don't see the fun or satisfaction in that. You and I aren't that far apart with our views ... we might not be on the exact same road, but they both go in the same direction

It's the same as playing games and sports... not all games are the same and each has a different objective... I grew up playing sports that were very physical... football, lacrosse etc. But I also liked baseball and basketball... I like the shooting sports like trap and skeet, but also enjoy a good game of chess... each has it's own attraction.. for some reason most deer hunters have an attraction to antlers, in fact, BIG antlers... and to say it isn't so would not be honest... each sport, game, animal hunted... has it's own attraction that makes it fun for the participant... I believe that deer hunting wouldn't have nearly as many participants if the bucks didn't have antlers... I think hunters like to rate themselves as a hunter, whether we admit it or not... Big antlers, being rarer and harder to come by over the years got chosen, for some reason as a gauge of hunting prowess... Why? That's anyone's guess... but I think true none the less.

What? Like you didn't understand? Okay I'll make it simpler for you... Always real butter, rather than a butter substitute... when we use it. Feel better now that I bit on your trolling?

I believe it has more to do with the cook... my grandmother could make a boot taste great. Even the worst cuts of meat can be cooked to taste delicious. Yeah, if you're just throwing the meat in a frying pan you might see a difference. But if you're truly cooking the meat correctly, probably not.

The majority of bucks are not killed opening weekend.

Always real butter... when we use butter... olive oil is the main staple in this household.

Good age structure can't be attained short term... it takes years and much more restrictive AR's to build a solid age structure with age representation past 3.5 years old... it would have no more affect than the current voluntary AR's have had on age structure in the last 5-10 years. If you're looking for good age representation of 4.5, 5.5, 6.5 and so on it can't and won't happen with a weekend of "3 on a side" AR's each year.

Not true... I'd get into why but it's a long answer... and in the scheme of things won't mean much to anyone anyways... nor would most even care... so I'll just say it doesn't work that way.

I think you could hurt yourself way worse at a bachelor party than on a fishing trip... and a honeymoon???... you definitely might sprain something there... just sayin'

yeah.. just the air power of a small country would render our measly rifles, shotguns and pistols useless. But, in a ground war... things could get interesting.

Like some guys have already said.. soreness when working out is part of the game if you're doing it right... the fact that you're recovering by the next morning is a good thing... I use to do the hot tub before and after martial arts training for 25 years... never got rid of the pain totally, but loosened me up for my workout and eased the soreness afterwards. As long as you aren't experience long term pain, you're good.

Although I fill my DMPs every year... I know I fall under that attitude... filling my DMP's is more of a necessity than anything for me... and I usually donate the meat unless I haven't taken a buck that year... in which case I'll keep one of the does for myself. I do usually get together with friends for DMP filling... so I do enjoy that part. I may be different in that I still fill the tags even though I don't get a kick out of doe hunting like I did years ago... I wonder if I would fill them if there was not a venison donation drive? Not really sure.

Nothing special here... holds 40 cigars... I can't remember what I paid for it, but it wasn't much at the time.

Careful... I have friends that said they'd never smoke a cigar... until I gave them a good one... now you can't stop them! LOL...

yup... pretty much everything stays just like it is now except... the roles reverse over time... then the same problems as we have now... except that the doe age structure will be lessened and the buck population will explode... the scenario however would be interesting from a hunting standpoint at first, but then the same old same old after that with gender role reversals. The bitching from hunters about not seeing enough deer would not change.

You got to admit that they know after they get caught.. like the family the thread is about.

I find it disturbing that there are those here that would much rather allow their kid to break the hunting age law here in NY because they don't agree with the law (which I don't agree with either)... rather than take their kid on a hunt in a State where the kid is of age. Okay, I don't really find it that disturbing... just interesting. "But Joe... not everyone has the time or money to take their kid to another State hunting. I mean, it isn't that important that my kid hunts at 10 years old that I need to go to that extreme... It's easier to teach him how to break the law here over something of that little importance." Don't teach your kid to break a law you don't agree with... teach him/her how to fight to change that law. If we all learned that instead of learning how to circumvent laws we don't like, we might not be having this conversation.

I think this is more common among hunters than you think... I would find it hard to believe that most hunters would spend as much time hunting a big doe they got on trail cam if they also had a 150+ buck on the same cam... something about a monster buck that makes it much easier to get out of bed and stay in the woods... I'm pretty sure there aren't many mature does that get a hunter's blood pumping and motivate them like a mature monster buck. That doesn't mean that most hunters wouldn't still hunt that doe if the buck was off the table, but not with nearly as much enthusiasm. Although I think women may not have the same drive towards the bucks as men... I think there is a macho element involved.. whether us men want to admit it or not.