phade

PA is as hot of a mess as NY depending on the view one has. They've made changes, but I think the consensus is that they made mistakes similar to NY that had impacts beyond the measure, execute, measure, modify 1 or 2 things, execute, and reassess practice. Remember when NY trounced the overall deer herd 10 or so years ago? PA did similar with their antlerless if I recall. The point being that certain state models can work to result in a well managed resource that can quickly recover if a mistake is made. If that premise is accepted, then its possible NY can do it. But, in reality, we're spinning our wheels. I hope this helps convey why I posted this to begin with.

So, do people in NY have less time than those in IL, WI, OH, etc. that have shorter gun seasons? If anything, one could argue the tradition is stronger there in some aspects because of it. i guess I'm just trying to understand how these other states have hunters with the same time limitations, likely same desires as we do hunting wise, get by with the days afield and be the tool that manages the resource?

I'm not specifically talking about better hunting. I'm referring to managing the resource as much, if not more than the quality of the hunting experience. What has NY been able to do that has been able to fix the overpopulated areas or underpopulated areas with any degree of major change and control?

Funny you say that about the opportunities, because my experience has been different. Land-owning Ohioans are much more receptive to permission in my experience. I get about a 5-fold increase in the number of yes that I receive from Ohio landowners than I do here in NY. For free, too. And, that's me reaching out, out of the blue, no networking. If you search basecampleasing, the leasing rates are about the same as here in NY on equivalent ground. Ohio stopped doing mandatory checks. The system they use is similar to ours in that respect. The regs management is a big hurdle. Instead of working within the confines of the legislature, why not try to push for that autonomy? Seems like nobody brings that up.

New York can't manage deer, whether it be the hunters or the people responsible for its oversight. Ohio has a model proven to be able to control the numbers with much better precision - lowering or raising harvest rates with accuracy of a few basis points based on their model that is fluid. NY has deisgned model after model, and is still challenged with overpopulation and underpopulation. Yet we as hunters don't want to accept much of any of the changes proposed or can't come to close to a clear majority on changes. Not saying I am right or wrong about anything in my views as they are opinions. It's just a commentary on the NY side of things. If it's possible to be done, why can't we?

I fall into that so often too...I say harvest way too much. Probably because of work...when people ask how many deer I caught, I told them none because they are too fast, but I killed 5, and they cringe. Ah well. Kill Kill Kill.

And the Ohio DNR makes changes each and every year, and they're oftentimes MAJOR changes to react to the current state and attempt to make the next season/future seasons best managed. They get crap done in the period between the end of season and the regs being set each and every year. We don't. Politics? Yes. A model that works, though? Much better than what we have. People at the end of the day just want to cling to their guns in their beds and be irrational about the fact that a successful deer management model likely involves fewer days afield with the bang stick than what we have now and the timing of those days. We bitch and moan about deer hunting here in NY, and you know what - we're NEVER going to get anywhere even close to what hunters here want with a super long gun season in a period of time where bucks are vulnerable. Sure, we can chip away, but it's not going to be day/night different.

Did anyone say take the guns away fully? Nope. The do we really need is scary thinking - do we really need rifles? Do we really need compound bows? Do we really need two buck tags? Where does that "do we really need?" stop? Tradition? Do you think Ohio doesn't have tradition? Pretty sure the tradition is similar in Ohio in its current state. Are Ohio hunters happy? They are and are not, just like us. Hunters as a group are never happy, so that's a poor measure. Ask if Iowa hunters are happy, or IL, or KS? You'll get similar responses as Ohio or NY.

OK, so where did anyone say take them out of the picture? You might have misread something in your haste to reply.

1. Who said anything about the same time period? 2. That's a big claim - what data backs you up? Last I checked out of state hunters made up less than or equal to 10% of Ohio's license sales and even smaller % of tags filled. I suspect they're probably not making the bulk of kills as compared to resident hunters. 3. How is our habitat different, specifically? 4. Our hunter attitudes are different? How so or to what points do you include in "attitude"? 5. Politics? We're talking about deer management system - not talking about barriers to politics. I understand the way we manage regs is different, but we're talking about a system.

Conflating deer harvest with an amendment right seems funny to me. We need to be able to shoot deer to justify our gun owmership? Seems like you are playing right into AC when he said you dont need all those bullets to kill deer.At the end of the day, im not so sure there is a difference between a dead deer and a dead deer...

Itll be quick.

Why? Is there a reason why guns need to be the primary?

"Deer hunting in Ohio has radically changed over the last couple of decades. While gun hunters once killed 90 percent of the deer during their short week-long season, bowhunters now harvest more than 50 percent of the deer aided by a four-month campaign. More deer are now taken with crossbows, which were first allowed in 1979, rather than compound bows or traditional longbows." I mentioned a couple years ago this would happen, and it did finally, gun hunter's relegated to the back seat as far as the harvest numbers go. Ohio hunters are interestingly upset at the deer numbers this year, but they're complaining about harvest rates much more stable than ours. The DNR there has been able to effectively get harvest numbers up in areas they want. The DEC can't. That's interesting to me. Rumor is starting that they may reduce crossbow opportunity - probably minimal chance, but there are sources out there citing this now.

Yes, I believe so. Pretty sure his gf/wife is a taxidermist. Unless the deer on my wall wasn't done by her, lol, and pretty sure it was. It was hanging on the left side of the wall in the pic when I picked mine up,ha.

I don't generally choose to shoot my bucks for meat because I have DMPs, the meat is what it is. That doesn't help people with limited/no DMPs though. It's been a while since I've shot a 1.5 y/o buck, and I don't think I would go out with that intention. At the same time, if I got to the last week of gun or late season and the right (or wrong) 1.5 walked by in a season where I haven't shot a buck or a doe (for whatever reason), the more I think about it, the more I'd proabbly send the projectile. Sometimes getting back to the roots is just fun. Had a day like that during MZ this year. Had a blast. At the end of the day, I don't like the idea of limiting anyone on taking a buck of their choosing for whatever reason, and maybe I see me in that scenario to a degree.

I love mine. It works really well. I'm in the minority that I don't really get alot of joy out of cleaning my guns. Not sure why.

tapatalk does that... I enjoy the mount that she did for me. Very realistic. I like the wood style backer, but they take up a ton of space on whitetails and make them look small imo. My little buddy that I mentored in hunting was google eye over her daughter. He even wanted to make sure he rode with me to pick up the mount a few months later. Funny stuff, since she hunted (I think), he felt she was perfect. Never had the guts to inquire.

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine who has alot of food plots. He's a big fan of chickory - even over clover. Says the deer just hammer it.

LOL. I don't think the one we are all talking about is brief and I bet that's where they draw the line. That is interesting though.

Thats the thing, everyone wants their two cents in when it doesnt statistically change the results.

You do realize that them seeking your input is the same as him going online or talking to biologists, etc. on their own, There's no difference to them talking to you or researching on their own - they're both situations where influence is being sought. All bias inputs are the same - thus you are only working with one variable, which is certainly accounted for.

It's sinew and muscle connectivity. The more its worked the stronger the fibers get.

I don't see a problem with that. Casual hunters are just that, and they have as much a say as I do being a serious hunter. If anything, you should feel better. dbhunter just countered that saying one in his circle got it, and I have to assume that's a serious hunter circle...or you just want to complain and think you know better than Cornell University. Get over it already, the sample process is scientifically sound and accepted within the community of professionals that are responsible for these tasks.

Their soild breaking quality probably draws the worms in. Good tip.