phade

Vortex and Zen Ray...not popular with the Swaro crowds, etc. I have cheaper glass but do OK with it...I really like my Vortex Crossfires and they are the entry level model. Diamondbacks are popular as are multiple Zen Ray models.

IR always makes deer looks smaller/thinner than in real life. He's got plenty of ag.

Ground check, aisle three!

This one is interesting. Several signs point to a mature buck, but I'm not overly convinced that 3.5 can be ruled out. The brisket is solid, small sag in back and belly, but it is not pronounced. I wouldn't venture over 4.5...but I also think he could be less than that. Usually 3.5 look like a race horse build. A couple extra photos would help.

Good to see the finish quality is up there. Sound like they use the same process as Elite (both use color fusion).

With the saddle do you have to pick up the tether like the web? The Ike video showed him having to pick up the strap to move around the tree. Curious is that's a big difference for the saddle. The Eberhart books rave about the saddle. I'm very interested in the web now that the saddle company is defunct.

Generally speaking, being on the ground is a rush with deer. But, nothing beats sitting in a treestand (or web) and watching it all go down. Pretty cool experience.

Thanks. Did it take you long to get "used" to hunting that style? I know many people end up selling the saddle after a few hunts.Those who use it well have some good bucks on the wall. Wondering if the web would follow the same path for many people.

The strap on the web is easily used as a gun rest from what i have seen. Off-topic, but do you clear many lanes at all with your saddle?

Heard same comments as cummins...guidos is often said to be a real good gun option whereas the saddle is more bow friendly. I'd love to hunt this way...someday.

I'm sure they are fine, but probably more expensive than the regular purple top and other brassicas.

What's the finish quality like? Curious about them for sure.

Here he is:

Just more evidence, as a three year old with a smallish chest, that's he's low on the totem pole of life.

The cold hard truth is that there are no ways for us to determine that. But, what we do know, is that the environment has so many variables, that taking care of them is where the biggest net gains are had in management. Therein lies the problem with genetics - becuase you really can't impact it in a constantly changing gene pool with a limitless number of environmental factors.

Another thing, too, is even at that age, he was likely a late born deer. I learned this one day while having conversations with three QDMA staff biologists at their HQ - it was eye opening for me, because I had always thought a late-born buck would catch up after that first year. This is how it was explained to me: Late born deer tend to be less dominant in many cases, and it follows through throughout many years of their life. Even at 3.5 his role at the dinner table and bedding areas were likely lower than many of the other bucks. He likely didn't have the best core area (I know you have TONS of food and cover there, but he probably had the scraps, had the least amount of time to feed, and traveled the farthest from bed to food). He's like the small kid that gets picked on, all the time, and grows into a reclusive weakling adult that avoids interactions with other humans and backs down when it can't be avoided. Overtime, that behavior is engrained into their daily life and potential is limited significantly. He could have had the genes to be a body builder, but we'll never know, because the environment prevented the possibility. No doubt this guy is 2.5-3.5, but I bet he's had a hard life, even though you are in an area of NY hunting paradise quality-wise. The pics are big supporter of it, acutally. He's old enough to know that daylight movement can get him killed, yet, where is he? Out in the open eating fallen apples. It's also the peak of the rut, he doesn't look like he's doing much rutting/breeding, and instead eating away. He's eating them because the other bucks are on the search. Those pics are fascinating and useful for some learning here for sure!

So is this. But, it is safe to say enviornmental factors also contribute.

I think you are overthinking it, too. I'd personally opt to place oats in places close to where you plan to hunt...oats draw pretty well within 30 days. I'm not saying a stand over top of it, but you get the picture. I'd also stagger plant them...some one weekend, a then a week later. That way you have oats at slightly varying stages - you don't hear about that much, but it is pretty effective. I think you are OK time-wise, but it's getting to the "do now or never phase" that is on the horizon. I think this plan is even better considering the Oct 1 opener. All this assuming a normal first hard frost timeframe...early hard frost obviously wrecks plans.

Very good summation. Do as you see fit ethically and by law. If you want to cull, go for it. Just don't ask about it on a forum and expect people to say "thatta boy". Maybe they'll learn something by this thread after all.

2010. dave...its not that 150 isnt attainable...its his situation based on info provided. this is a guy talking about free range genetic culling on 300 acres in NY. he needs to walk before running.

True, it is actually the opposite...the gene pool is CONSTANTLY changing. Nature is designed that way. Our ability to impact it to grow antler size or eliminate a trait is pissing into the wind. I hope some of these guys have their rain gear on...gonna get wet.

You missed every single point of logic and science in this thread...missing the forest for the trees. I really don't know what else to say. If you honestly believe what you believe then so be it. I implore you to read the article I linked...it answers all of your questions, really it does. Almost section by section.

Impressive as always.

Oy, I give up on this thread. Taking him to improve genetics quality is a waste of time and tag if you have a plan. Simple as that.

I think you are talking apples and oranges. I said nothing about their hunting prowess. Whatever their business plan was, the move was made. Very few people make such a transition in their lives. I also agree that most TV hunters are not necessarily the best, but of them all Lee is up there. I've had enough conversations with him to know that he knows what he is talking about. Tiffany contrary to the image she has, is a great shot with a bow. Greg Miller is another. Hayes is as well. I've met more than a few where I just shook my head after meeting them. No question great land can make a bad hunter look good.