phade

Actually ran into alot of that while in college. You can't pump your own gas in New Jersey. I taught more than a few people. I still would have told the SUV lady:) Partly for the personal satisfaction at how the conversation was going, and partly because she'd have to check out the rear of the SUV.

I think there is plenty of skill necessary to take bucks during the rut, especially mature bucks. While they may have changed focus from food to breeding, there are still unique challenges that must be overcome to be successful. Luck certainly plays a role in any hunt, but the more skill I develop, the luckier I seem to get. Odd. There are certainly times where I shake my head at such good luck, but when I think about it, almost all of my luck was brought on by my preparation that gave me the opportunity to begin with. On the flip side, when I make a mistake, I need to think about the hole in my game plan that caused it. dont get me wrong but as you evolve as a hunter some of the "skill" you have claimed becomes common sense rather then actual skill... i agree with the more skill you get the more luckier you do but if it was the other way around does that mean your loosing your skill??? if you happen to make less kills and have a 2-3 year period of no success does that mean you are loosing that skill? id say no and chalking it up to luck, wouldnt you? No, I wouldn't chalk a 2-3 year dry spell on luck. I'm doing something wrong at that point, or there are external factors that I need to address (land access, trespassing, deer pattern changes, gun/bow issues, etc.). Again, alot of it depends on what you call success, and therein lies the debate. But, a 2-3 year dry spell to me signals something wrong. One year, maybe....but I better have: A. Missed a shot B. Had fewer than normal days a field C. Thoroughly scouted out why I'm having this issue, and come to no conclusion. I agree that luck is certianly part of the equation, sometimes it'll make you shake your head in disbelief for bad or good. But, luck is not the cause for most hunters being unsuccessful...its the hunter. There's something they could be doing better or differently. I hate to say it, but luck is a crutch, and it's usually not accurate to do so. Skill and common sense are sometimes one in the same. Just because you learn it and take action does not mean it's becomes any less important. Finding a funnel or inside corner may be common sense, but it still takes skill to make it work consistently.

I'll see what they have, and let you know. Thanks for the input.

Yes, this will not be hunted with until paper tested. My friend is only available Monday for a few hours to get the sighting in done. I have his mz and scope, but need to get it mounted/bore sighted for him. I'm out of town this weekend, and can only really drop it off for the work to be done, so he can pick it up Monday. Some holier-than-thou people certainly like to jump to conclusions on the Web. All I asked was for a reliable gunsmith in the area. Not a lesson on hunter ethics. I've done the bolt trick on a few rifles before, too. This is a MZ, and I've not tried that before.

Unfortunately, because that doesn't fit the situation. It's a time/distance issue. Tahnks for the suggestion though, that's surely on the horizon. I typically spend more time with bows.

It's a CVA Wolf, so I'm pretty sure it's ready to go in that respect.

Beman MFX series...9.6 gpi. 410 finished weight with 100 gr bh. Used Redhead Blackouts, standard slick tricks, and this year, grim reapers. Like all three, and was suprised by the Grim Reapers. I will likely use them again next year.

In a bind...need to help a friend out who has little time to get this task done (college). Have a scope for his mz, but need to get rings/mounted/bore sighted. Usually go to Avon Gun Supply to get that job done, but they've gotten super expensive and slow to turn around. Gander has a real slow turnaround. Anyone have suggestions? Would put in Region 8...but this places gets much more traffic.

Welcome! I'm in the Rochester area, too. Also familiar with your FL stomping grounds....went to USF, and have family in Dunedin and a few nearby locales. Great time to decide to get into it, actually. It gives you a significant amount of time to prepare. Have you got private land access to hunt up here? The equipment/shooting side of it will keep you busy, without a doubt!

Well said.

I think there is plenty of skill necessary to take bucks during the rut, especially mature bucks. While they may have changed focus from food to breeding, there are still unique challenges that must be overcome to be successful. Luck certainly plays a role in any hunt, but the more skill I develop, the luckier I seem to get. Odd. There are certainly times where I shake my head at such good luck, but when I think about it, almost all of my luck was brought on by my preparation that gave me the opportunity to begin with. On the flip side, when I make a mistake, I need to think about the hole in my game plan that caused it.

When I see a push going on, on a farm I hunt...I'll watch from afar, let them do their thing, and then head into that woodlot about 30 minutes - 1 hour after they left. I specifically look for tracks within the human footprints. Really shows you how many times deer will circle around, refusing to leave a small woodlot. Also a great way to hunt them...I either set up in a stand I have in that lot, or I slowly make my way to a funnel that they'll eventually pass through as the evening comes on.

The problem people have is that they base luck/skill off of the actual hunting. If the season is poor, most yahoos say/believe it was bad luck. If the season was good, most say/believe it was skill. Unfortunately, the rude truth is that it's a little of both, but much more reliant upon skill. Bad season? Why? Certainly outside influences such as pressure, trespassing, thefts, etc. can be a blow. Time to acknowledge that and figure out a solution as best as possible. Accepting is being resigned to your luck... People should always be a student of the game. Why are deer not being seen? Why am I seeing less deer than last week/last month/last season? It could be any number of things within your control, and if that's the case, that's a skill issue. Entering wrong? Exiting wrong? Did a tree fall on a path and direct deer differently? Are crops rotated? I could go on and on....but my experience has always led me to believe that people blame bad things on luck, and good things on skill. I'm no exception to the rule, either. I find myself doing that while on stand...and normally I try to kick myself out of the funk. The renewed vision usually results in a new-found discovery of some sort that helps turn the table.

You have pics of your cabin? I'm considering going with Bob next year. How do you manage heat, showers/toiletries, etc.?

I actually e-mailed Bob, and his price per acre was over $18...actually into the $20s. The price lowered as the acreage increased, but tracts 200 and less were over $20 per acre.

I saw does yarded up while traveling I-90 Sunday evening. Seems like the yarding is still sporadic....but getting there.

Where'd you get the weight ranking? NYSBBC? I'm really interested in looking at that record list.

I went out on Friday. Interesting place to say the least. I'd be more than happy to share whatever knowledge I gained if someone is interested in hunting Montezuma before the season...pm me. I did find one area that was particularly interesting, and the sign told me that a late season hunt could be successful. I spent more time trying to read the land than hunting it...in hope for next season. I've hunted federal lands before, but these regs were particularly tight. The limited ability to scout really dampers short-term success. It would take a year or two worth of visits (a time or two each season) to really get a grasp on the deer movements. I'm not heading back before the end of the season (because I'm busy until the last weekend of MZ), so if someone wants a decent area to hunt there, I'd be glad to point it out. I only saw one hunter the entire day on the two tracts I hunted....and that was at 10 a.m. as I was walking out for lunch. He was walking in...that's when I realized I was on 100 acres (give or take) all by myself.

There's a few timber companies offering leases in the southern tier...I'm wondering if there's anyone interested in partnership for such a lease. It'd be a two hour drive for me to the lease, and I'm looking for someone with similar distance, etc. Looks like many of the leases are in Chemung, Tioga, etc. A few in Cattaraugus. I have one partner with me who would want to join the lease. Most of these leases allow a camper or a rustic cabin to be built on it...and they often require a commitment of a few years (1-3 years). I'd most likely be using it regular firearms hunting and the occassional archery/turkey hunt. Want it more like a camp experience...been hunting high pressure lands in good areas, and I'd simply like to "get away" from the masses (orange army). Pretty sure we can plant plots in approved areas, too. The general going rate seems to be about $1k for 50 acres of woods. Might seem a tad high, but with all woods, the tracts hunt larger. Plus, you can post as your own land to control trespassing as best as possible.

Fletch...when did you go? Recently? During the week or on Saturday?

I'm guessing he doesn't tag it. I think it's akin to shooting a wild pig because it is not a regulated game animal. I image he would only need a hunting license to shoot it....not tag. ML has some type of distinction (federally applied) where someone would get in trouble for shooting one, outside of defense. I'm unsure where the line is drawn since ML can be legally hunted in some states.

I already posted on there for you...I know the admin/owner of the site (Wayne). I'm also checking with a few Jefferson contacts...they may know someone in your area.

Figured this would be better here since it can draw people from outside the region. Taking my FIL there Friday for a day of hunting...regs look tough (carry in/out stands), 400 inches of blaze orange, time requirements, etc. My hunting lands have been hit hard this season, abnormally so, so this is to change the pace. I thought about a climber, but may just bring my cheapo blind since much of the walking distance looks long...and my FIL is slowing up at his age (60's). Anyone have experience there? I'm pretty good at reading aerials, and can pick out some spots, but I can't foresee the hunting pressure. I need to balance distance/quality hunting spots, too, with the FIL in tow.

Sorry to hear. Hope the family manages well during such a tough time. Did he get the deer? I hope so. It may be just a deer, but as said, he was doing something he enjoyed.

I think 1,900 acres of hunting access is a good problem to have compared to most hunters here in New York.