phade

Looks like it's by a golf course. I wonder how many have tried to take it out with a nine iron?!?!?!

Wow...looks like a dandy buck! Appears symetrical...to many hunters a perfect 8 is the dream buck.

I don't think expansion is in question here since it's a fairly well-designed bullet that's seen heavy use in the mz industry, as long it's not overpushed as stated. Hornady advertises 1" @ 100. Just wondering what type of groups people were getting with it beyond that distance out to 150 yards.

Mothwing Mimicry...dropped it the day afther the pic was taken...busted half of the skull up.

Stud! One constant I've heard in my discussions from around the state is that cNY is having a banner year.

I'll most likely be pushing it with two 50 gr. T7 pellets this time around. I plan to mess with some other combinations in the Spring, but I doubt I'll be pushing anything more than 100 gr. Are the other sabots easy to find locally (say Gander Mtn. BPS, etc.) or are they an order item? I'd like to have these be accurate up to the 125-150 yard range...anyone shoot regularly at that distance with them (range time, etc.)?

Anyone have experience with these? Picked up some to tinker with since they are pretty cheap. 240 gr. in a 44 caliber slotted for .50 with the jacket. Haven't shot them yet, but the jacket doesn't seem all that well matched with the projectile.

Green more often refers to skinned, but not put up (fleshed/stretched, etc.). Whole animal is more often called "in the round."

Especially with an exit, too. The large hole would make it seem like there was expansion. Very odd experience, for sure! That's part of the fun with hunting.

Nice deer! Figure out why the lack of blood?

20 gauge Hornady SST. Best place to buy is Dick's Sporting Goods when they go on sale for $9.99. I've looked hard and long for a better deal, but it's not there to the regular joe. Normal price is $14.99 with them going down to $10.99 at times on sale...but Dick's has done the $9.99 sale twice per year for the pas two seasons. They do a number on the deer...all shots were all within 35 yards Sunday morning. Down range accuracy is great as well.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with deer and their biology, but 80lbs is not all that small. An 80 lb doe (regardless of birth date), is more likely to be a part of the breeding process than not. Most people mistake age for viability...rather it's weight. An 80lb doe fawn is likely to be a breeder in its first fall. An 80 lb fawn stands a relatively good chance of survival...maybe a little heavier if a button, but still. Not sure what the fact that hunters were shooting viable deer has to do with the subject at hand. I think it's more in line with the act rather than the targets themselves.

Way to go! Was this up here, or down at your lease?

The term is called "reciprocating species" or "remunerating species." Basically, they can compensate. Coyotes will fill a void with litters, and adjust accordingly in the opposite direction when the environment calls for it. I've spoken with the researchers at Cornell, specifically the professor, and the graduate student who were running the study a few years back (I'm sure she is long gone by now, or onto her own practices). The two hot spots were really the southern Monroe and northern Livingston counties (Rush area), and one of the southern tier cities...either Bingamton or Elmira...I think it was Bingamton. These hot spots showed that the coyote populations were expanding at more then 2x the state rate of average expansion. Related to sprawl, but showed how coyotes could in 2-3 generations, significantly increase their numbers in a given area when the area supports it. Average litter size went up significantly in two generations.

No problem...I always found the posession of the deer before I really shot it was a jinx to me ;D Anytime I did that..I ended up not getting it, haha. Way to get your friend out there...doing your part!

Did you buy the deer with your partner or something? The "our deer" tossed me for a loop for a second, until I realized it was a free-ranging deer you were hunting. I'd call and get a permit from the DEC. It's surely is a nice buck. I think we can all relate in some way to that, either car accident, another hunter taking it, etc. I'll on occassion try to key in on a buck, but I try not to let it become the only target. When that buck gets taken out, it's a much bigger blow if you've focused all your efforts on it. I hope you can get the tag!

Yes...good thread idea. 1. Watch out for shooting form changes when you buy a new bow. I often have the fortune of getting a new bow each year (although I plan on keeping them the same this year for now). I love the bow I have, but the grip is particularly challenging. I had to work very hard to be consistent. I usually have a light glove on my bow hand, and it significant changed my shooting, especially when in a stand. Always be aware of issues similar to this when buying a new bow. 2. The social aspect to hunting...some hunters can be downright nice, rude, or crazy. This also applies to landowners. Manage the social aspect well, and hunting season is much easier and more fun. The social game is going to be a larger player as time goes on in the hunting world.

I always thought about a similar list, but it'd be so long that I've never get into the woods again because I wouldn't be done writing any time soon. It all depends on what you want out of hunting, save ethics/law being in place.

It's been on AT, and probably a few other sites. I think some people were thinking 3.5-4.5 age jump with the shed.

And the wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round...round and round. Sportsmen and women are just as bad as politicians sometimes ;D

Well, you did state in your second post on this thread that it takes a lot of skill killing a mature buck. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that, but there are plenty of people who kill good bucks with generally little skill but somehow had plenty of luck on that particular day. Also, if a person somehow has access to some really good deer habitat, is that considered luck or skill? Was it skill or luck that he was somehow able to acquire it in a lease, inherit it, or buy it? Whether it is luck or skill, can everyone really ever be in the same boat?? Lots of factors out there, no matter how hard someone tries, that are beyond ones control. Most people don't have the time or means to devote to something as irrelevant in the scheme of things as hunting is. They just go out and try to enjoy a day in the outdoors as best as they can and whether it was skill or luck that made their hunt successful or not isn't really given much thought by most. Thus realistic expecations of success must be made. Simple as that. People here seem to think luck is the cause behind everything. One joe schmo hunting one day a year "lucks" into a buck...is that luck? Maybe...but maybe he also practiced at the range to be spot on, set up a stand in a spot he picked out good for sign. He/She still had to take steps to down the deer, in the most basic sense. There's no skill involved there, apparently. Magically it seems as if people here think luck is able to drop a buck in your lap like it's a lotto drawing. Do you "lucky" hunters even need to pull the trigger, or do you just "wish" it dead when you see it, and the poor thing keels over?

It's absolutely how many deer you see..if you see no deer, then you can be the best shot in the world and you are not going to kill a deer Oy! This is never going to end ;D That begs the question...where's the deer and why are you not seeing them? The great shot is the end of the entire approach. C'mon we can keep this going forever!

Reading comprehension must be optional. When has killing a mature buck ever been a point in this discussion? I already stated my lowest success goal is harvesting a deer over the course of a season...not big bucks. I already stated I killed a 1.5 last year, but apparently you missed that. I have no less/more control over anything than the average joe, including time, as I've AGAIN stated time and time again. It's not about the controls...its about the variables. If you only have a few days to hunt a year, success likely isn't going to be measured in filled tags for most people. It's much more likely to be related to seeing deer, enjoying hunter company, getting out there.

I cannot control everything, and as I've said time and time again, luck plays a part...but it's much more minor than the skill influence. Based on what is presented to me in the control front, my goal is to maxmize my ability to be successful (variable). It's that simple. Funny, it seems the more I do it, the "luckier" I get. I can honestly say I've never seen an able-bodied hunter maximize their variables and still go unsucessful without some sort of skill screw up. Keep in mind this means more than the deer walking by your stand (ie land access, pressure management, etc.). I also think success is a personal determination. Your success and my success appears to be different. Nothing wrong with that. I know hunters who put me to shame on the skill front, and that's fine with me for now, although I keep learning to reach new heights. I play with the rules I made for myself, and that's what its about. I am committed to having fun while meeting my success measuring stick.

I think there is plenty of skill necessary to take bucks during the rut, especially mature bucks. While they may have changed focus from food to breeding, there are still unique challenges that must be overcome to be successful. Luck certainly plays a role in any hunt, but the more skill I develop, the luckier I seem to get. Odd. There are certainly times where I shake my head at such good luck, but when I think about it, almost all of my luck was brought on by my preparation that gave me the opportunity to begin with. On the flip side, when I make a mistake, I need to think about the hole in my game plan that caused it. dont get me wrong but as you evolve as a hunter some of the "skill" you have claimed becomes common sense rather then actual skill... i agree with the more skill you get the more luckier you do but if it was the other way around does that mean your loosing your skill??? if you happen to make less kills and have a 2-3 year period of no success does that mean you are loosing that skill? id say no and chalking it up to luck, wouldnt you? No, I wouldn't chalk a 2-3 year dry spell on luck. I'm doing something wrong at that point, or there are external factors that I need to address (land access, trespassing, deer pattern changes, gun/bow issues, etc.). Again, alot of it depends on what you call success, and therein lies the debate. But, a 2-3 year dry spell to me signals something wrong. One year, maybe....but I better have: A. Missed a shot B. Had fewer than normal days a field C. Thoroughly scouted out why I'm having this issue, and come to no conclusion. I agree that luck is certianly part of the equation, sometimes it'll make you shake your head in disbelief for bad or good. But, luck is not the cause for most hunters being unsuccessful...its the hunter. There's something they could be doing better or differently. I hate to say it, but luck is a crutch, and it's usually not accurate to do so. Skill and common sense are sometimes one in the same. Just because you learn it and take action does not mean it's becomes any less important. Finding a funnel or inside corner may be common sense, but it still takes skill to make it work consistently. im not talking about any hunter in general, im talking about you. assuming you do your normal regiment, scouting,decenting the whole 9. And then had we'll say a back to back year where you came up not filling a tag and assuming you put in your time and so on. can your skill change the wheather conditions? can you make it stop raining when it turns out to be a wet season? perhaps wind? skill doesnt have much bearing on that... my point is you as a hunter can do ALL, YOU can do to make your BEST effort on putting yourself on deer i agree a 100% but you have no 100% control over the guys sneaking on your land spreading there scent around or if you hunt public land perhaps another hunter walking past your stand. however when by luck wheather conditions happen to be perfect, or you are the only one hunting that particular parcel that day and no one is there to ruin your hunt, or you get in the woods on a weekend and not one person entered those woods all week and you JUST happen to connect on a nice buck. well that my freind is considered luck no matter how you slice it. conditions were perfect and it was your day sir. there are so many variables that can come into effect and ruin ones hunt but you are right your skill will take you to the point of ironing out that stand you beleive to be the one that will produce but unfortunatly THERE ARE NO GUARENTEES in deer hunting. you can have the best skills among all but there are many variables that are out of your hands and ours for that matter. Alls im saying is your skill will only go so far before you happen to be a lucky man sitting over one of your proudest deer and hunting moments ever endured. But to say your skills drives your hunts to me would make me beleive you are a VERY successful deer hunter who usually comes out on top. alittle luck never hurt anyone and even the "PROS" guys who get paid to hunt get lucky. its not a bad thing to admit, It DOES NOT make a guy less of a hunter. I happen to think my skills are pretty darn good However, i can only try to hold deer on my proprty or pick that stand i think will be a money spot, i can only add all my pcs of the pie together over years of experience like you stated but if that deer doesnt happen to ever come by your stand while your there, well id hope for my luck to change alittle and get back in the sattle. I don't really see the logic. Bad weather? Hunt accordingly. Good weather? Hunt accordingly. Bad wind? Find a spot for a good wind, hunt accordingly. Your scenario isn't describing luck...it's describing skill. To me, the bozo who hunts the same spot (public) and sees people/hunters on more than one occassion doesn't have his/her bright lights turned on, if you get my drift. Try hunting during the week when there's less pressure, or walk in a little further from the road. Heck, many hunters overlook sets that are tight to the road. I've had a few stands that were some of my most productive, and they were within 25 yards of a road. Too many people tresspassing? Yeah, it happens...do something about it. Either work with landowner or LE. You could also be smart enough to reconize that YOU need to do something if you want to be successful, such as making a run to public land, knocking on some doors, etc. If you feel you cannot be successful on a particular parcel because of trespassing or outside pressure, not doing anything is a lack of skill...not bad luck. Only have one hunting spot? Do something about it. Recognize that you're one bad experience away from losing all hunting land, one trespass from having no unpressured land, etc. I relied on one land a long time ago, and I got burned. Thankfully I worked to tag a deer or two each time. Now, I always work to have two, three, or more properties available. They may not be great, but at the very least, should something come up, I can rotate to another parcel. As far as land use? I hunt heavily pressured land. I've lost three stands and a game camera (on two different parcels) this year. I also constantly see boot tracks on my family's property, and I'm doing my best to stop it. Sure, I could have moaned about it, reduced my seat time because I think my chances are lessened and it's everyone else's fault. I did complain a little, I miss my stands, the cam, and the money and time I spent on them...but I also decided I was going to be as successful as possible by scouting a new area, locating runs where it didn't appear humans were moving through, and set a stand. I also learned a long time ago that gun hunting usually brought out the most problems (for me). That's when I had/have the most trespassing issues. I picked up a bow because of that, and I did something about it. I started bowhunting. The yahoos who gun hunt in my area are always a little miffed when I drag a buck out during bow because they haven't even stepped into the woods yet....but guess what, they don't do a thing about it, and then moan when they don't see a buck during gun because of all the pressure. I will always agree that luck is a player, but its much more skill than luck. You may get lucky on an occassion, but that'll ALWAYS be an exception to the rule. 99 of 100 examples you could present is depedent upon skill, not luck. You'll never be able to change the weather, but you can change how you hunt. Failing to recognize and change your methods isn't bad luck. It's poor skill. Last year, I shot three deer in a three-hour evening sit during bow season. Was it luck? Eh, some would say possibly. But, think about it. I located the spot after a partial cut was done on a corn field. I set the stand. I made three very soild kill shots. I also made the key decision to stay in the stand after harvest one, and two rather than getting down and doing my celebration dance (joking). The third deer was the buck, nothing special, a 1.5 yo. I made my own luck that day, just like any other. Not being successful (on your own terms)? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. My personal lowest denominator to success will always be filling a tag over the course of a season. I enjoy hunting to the fullest, the comraderie, etc. But, my personal goal is to always fill one tag a season, and I've done that each year since I decided I was going to be successful.