wolc123

This was my fourth season, and best to date. I hunted one of the three days in the NZ (the last 7 days up there don't count because ML is also legal then), and saw two antlerless deer that were well out of range as I was still-hunting between spots. They saw me at the same time I saw them, and I was unable to close the range before they high-tailed it into cover. I hunted five of the 14 days in the Southern zone and saw single antlered bucks on three of those days. The second one was the largest of those, and also the only one that was in range. He might be the heaviest buck that I have ever killed. I think all the rain we had this year really helped them put on weight compared to the drought we had last year. The 2-1/2 year old, busted up 5-point that I killed this season measured 43" girth around the chest, behind the front legs. That amounted to about 100 pounds of boneless venison for the freezer, not only per the PA game chart, but also according to the big plastic meat containers that I use for processing. I have been able to fill my buck tag on the 3 of the last 4 crossbow seasons, but have yet to have an antlerless deer in range. I think full-inclusion would help out a lot there, as the wise old does in my neck of the SZ woods don't take too long to go full-nocturnal after they detect a little early archery season pressure.

I think threads like these are very effective because we are seeing more and more people who were previously against crossbows and full inclusion who are now for one or both of those. By contrast, I have not seen any evidence of anyone who was previously for crossbows and/or full inclusion change their mind to being against. The single biggest issue that seems to sway folks over to the pro-crossbow side, is less likelihood of wounded and non-recovered deer. It is true that a crossbow can still wound deer, but it is far less likely at almost all skill levels. A close second would be age-related health problems. Clearly the anti-crossbow folks are fighting an uphill battle. The ground they are standing on is based only on selfish elitism, which does nothing to help their cause.

I imagine that anti-crossbow organizations, like NYB, have instructed their members to slam crossbows and full inclusion and to use every opportunity in any public place to get the last word in, right up until their dying breath. This dwindling number of individuals have been duped into believing that the sky will fall, despite clear evidence to the contrary, from nearby states like Ohio and PA. At the same time, we are seeing the emergence of pro-crossbow organizations. I have to imagine that the antis now feel a lot like the Rebs did during the Civil War, after Gettysburg. They must be starting to realize that the cause they are fighting for is lost. I agree with the title of this thread and that it is high time we pro-crossbow folks make peace with them and comfort them in this time of the anti's great distress. That is why I keep bringing up the ANTI-crossbow "Mecca" of Oregon, where they could very likely live out their twilight years without the threat of a "crossbow" invasion.

I like it just like it is now. If it is "fixed", and more deer are brought in through habitat changes, then more hunters will follow. There is something special about being able to hunt for multiple days and never running across another hunter. One thing I like best about the hunting up there right now is that it usually gets better as the season progresses, especially after some snow. That is a stark contrast to most of the Southern zone, where the deer go mostly nocturnal after the first weekend of gun season. If you want more deer and more hunters, you already have it in the southern zone. We have the best of both worlds right now here in NY state. That is why I, as a pure meat hunter, consider NY to be the best whitetail state in America. If the trophy hunters don't like it, they have 49 others to pick from.

Full inclusion is likely to happen, because any polls taken of NY state hunters have indicated at least two to one in favor of that compared to leaving it 2 weeks only in the Southern zone, or 3 days in the Northern zone as it has been the last 4 seasons. That includes the poll that was posted on this site in the bowhunting section last year. NY state DEC is also on record of supporting it. When and if full inclusion does occur, there is no need for those bow-hunters, who have so valiantly opposed it, to dispair. Oregon will welcome you there, the only state that allows no crossbows at any time. Not only do they have a good population of whitetails, they also have mule deer, elk, and blacktails. In addition, the scenery out there is the closest that I have scene, in the lower forty eight, to that of NY's Adirondacks. Don't worry, be Happy.

That's cool. It would be nice if everyone thought that way. I have read on here a few times where folks have said they only take shots they are 100 % sure they can make. I guess that is ok if they are good with food from the store or eating out. I prefer to feed my own family with "blessings from Heaven". It sure don't hurt that it is also a lot more fun than standing in lines at grocery stores or cafes.

Thank you for your honesty on the unrecovered deer. Many folks do not have the guts to admit stuff like that on the internet. The most important thing the Bible teaches is to trust in Jesus, and I give Him all of the credit for the two dozen or so deer that He has blessed me with over the last 12 years, as well as those over my prior years where I struggled a bit more. Do you only shoot when you are 100 % sure you can make it ? My number is 90 %. I have been very blessed over the last 12 years that He has given me that extra 10% that I surely would have lost on my own. In the latest case, He allowed me to put more than 90 pounds of boneless venison in our freezer Friday night. I learned yesterday morning, just how much of His help was required for that. I had put a Crossbow bolt thru the "twofur" (deer that produces 2X the average amount of meat), on the previous week Friday, in the late afternoon. I could not find my bolt that evening. I saw it yesterday morning, while back up in the same stand. I had taken the shot in the last 10 minutes of daylight, thru what looked like a good opening at the time. As I stared at the fletching sticking out of the ground, 32 yards away in the bright light yesterday, I marveled at all the small (1/4" diameter or less) branches that the bolt had to snake thru to reach it's target. I counted more than 15. That was my first shot at a deer with my Crossbow in the woods (the prior two were 59, and 15 yards across open fields). I had seen the two 1" branches, a foot away, on each side when I took the shot, but not all the little ones in between. I have never been 100 % sure that I could make any shot on a deer. I had a handful that were 99%, and I actually did not make one of those. That was 14 years ago. My firing pin froze up and my Marlin 512, and it did not go off on a doe standing 15 yards away when I pulled the trigger. She would have been the only doe I ever killed at my folks place, but it was not to be. Maybe she was the grandmother of the twofur that I killed there this year. Only one of my shots was perfect, and that would be my infamous "Texas Heart Shot" which has been referred to on this thread was good for 5 or 6 pages on this forum. The fact that it keeps getting brought up is like the gift that keeps on giving. I judged my chances of a recovered kill to be about 98 % for that shot, at a standing buck at 50 yards. I can only take a bit of the credit there, for putting the bullet in the right spot. My 30/06 holds a 3/4" group from 100 yards so centering the bullet in a 3/4" hole from a rest at half that range was no big deal. All of the credit for lining the buck's body up with the gun barrel, so that the heart was struck, the neck was broke, very little meat was damaged, and the guts came out as clean as a whistle, belongs with He who calls ALL the shots. Several others on here have admitted to taking that shot, but I have not heard of another that was so perfectly executed. They all had to deal with significant messes at gutting time, from what I hear.

He is also the guy who has recovered every deer he has shot at over the last 12 years, and all in less than an hour. Must be "just a coincidence" right ? How has your record been over that time ?

Good advice there from 52 on the Honda. Mine has a 6.5 hp Honda on it and it does run fairly quiet. One more piece of advice on a splitter (or any other intermittent use small engine), is stay away from ethanol gas. My Honda is about 15 years old, but it has been given a new life the last three years thanks to the availability of that ethanol free stuff. It now starts on the first pull again every time, just like it did when new. Since I only split up front near my barn, I would probably look into a big 3-phase electric motor the next time, to make it even quieter the next time, eliminate fuel concerns and get rid of the emissions entirely so I could do it under an overhang.

I would recommend getting one that you can use vertical of horizontal. The vertical position is nice for real big diameter stuff so you do not have to lift it up as high. I am dealing with a bunch of real big ash trees now and it sure is nice to be able to just roll those big chunks up to the splitter and flop them down on the bed. In the vertical mode, it is very comfortable seated in a chair (or on an upside down 5 gallon bucket) in front of the splitter. I did the manual thing for many years and it is not bad for the young. I can certainly find much more enjoyable ways for burning calories now. A problem with splitting wood by hand, is similar to swinging a hammer or shooting a bow. It will lead to lopsided arm development and can lead to arthrits and other joint issues as you get older. Splitting wood with a hydraulic splitter is relaxing and enjoyable. If only I could find a way to make chunking up the wood and dropping the trees with a chainsaw like that. The funnest part is dragging the logs out of the woods with the tractor however. I feel sorry for folks who do not heat with wood.

i just finished getting last Friday's crossbow buck in the freezer. That 2-1/2 year old meat felt like it was aged just about right after hanging 7 days of temps in the mid thirties. I had to do it this evening because they are calling for low fifties tomorrow. After that it looks like good aging temps again for a long stretch. It is a pain skinning and processing on the same day, but I saved a little time by using zip-lock bags instead of vacuum sealing the grind. Now I have plenty of room on the meat pole for tomorrow. For you folks who do not age your venison, try looking up on google what the experts say about that if you do not believe. You will not believe how much better it is if you allow the rigor mortis to break down before you freeze it. Yeah, it is now opening day. Good luck to all of you later this morning.

It does not sound too tomorrow terrible here in zone 9F. The rain is not supposed to start until 9:00 am and the wind is supposed to be 10 mph at sunrise and reach a max of 15 mph at 1:00, then drop back down a bit. I think I am going to start out in my best tree-stand, for the predicted SW wind direction, and strap on my tree umbrella as soon as I get to the stand. I hope to be there 1/2 hour before sunrise. I will leave the umbrella up there, but move to a nearby enclosed blind if the wind picks up too bad and the rain goes sideways. The predicted high temp of 51 raises a concern over the buck that I shot with my crossbow last Friday, which has been hanging in my garage since then. I wanted to give that 2-1/2 year old 9 days before processing, but it looks like he will only get 7. He is going into the freezer tonight. I don't need the stress about "rotting" meat when I am out there tomorrow, and it will be nice to clear the space on the meat hook in case we need it.

It is easy to get frustrated with this situation, but I do not think it has got worse lately. We all hear about it more because of social media. I give the folks credit who have the guts to post their mistakes and seek help from others on the internet. Some lack the courage to do that (as we have just heard in this thread a few times), preferring to hide their shame rather than risk looking weak in front of strangers. There is a simple, sure-fire way out of this deal. Figure out who controls the fate of all living things and stay on good terms (Hint : Mathew 10: 29-31). I have recovered every deer that I have shot at over the last 12 seasons, usually within a half hour, and never in over an hour. I make no claim on being a super-hunter however. All of the credit goes to He who placed those blessings upon me. The last thing I would want to do is let those blessings go to waste. There is more than a little bit of antler idolitry going on for sure, and that does not help the situation. It is good to see a few of the regulars here finally waking up to that this season. I only shoot at deer that I am at least 90 % sure that I can hit and recover, and I am extremely thankful that He has given me the extra 10% that I would have surely lost on my own. I don't get all that many chances, and it takes about (4) average-sized deer to keep my family well fed from one season to the next.

Congrats, That is awesome. Buttons are the best, especially on the table. My wife and daughters practically beg me to shoot one every year. It has been about 6 years since I was able to get that done, but we have been blessed with a few thru the kindness of others through that drought. A buddy from work shot a nice one for us last year on opening day, and a hit-and run motorist left one at the end of our driveway two seasons before that. They have been successfully avoiding me lately, but my first bow buck was also a button, along with my first gun buck as well as the only deer I ever killed in the Southern zone late ML season. I hope you saved the liver. They are especially tasty and tender compared to those from older deer.

With high winds, the umbrella might not be of much help, but if you can set it up on the downwind side of a large diameter tree, it might do ok. I have three blinds made from old truck caps that work good in those conditions. I shot a big doe out of one last season on opening day after the wind and rain picked up in the afternoon. Two of those are made from construction-style caps. They have an enclosed lower deck and an open top, upper deck built on the ladder rack for fair-weather conditions. I killed my crossbow buck from the upper deck of the one over at my folks place last Friday. My tree umbrella did not work out so good on a rainy day up in the Northern zone last season but the problem I had with it was caused more by the hammock style seat that I strapped to the tree below it. The water flowed down the tree, filling the seat and soaking me from the bottom up, while my top stayed dry. I will use a free-standing stool with it next time (cost $7 at Aldis). Aldis also had pop-up blinds for $30 that would probably work better than a tree umbrella in high winds and rain.

It is easier for me to skin them that way, especially when the hide is cool. I do flip them over and hang from hooks in the tendons after removing the feet, head, and hide. That little $5 Harbor Freight block and tackle struggled on this one, I thought the rope was going to break. It works great on anything under 160 pounds or so. I may need to invest in one of them electric winches like you have.

I was very thankful that I only had to lift the fat 190 pound field-dressed buck (per the PA chest girth measurement table at a 43" chest girth) that I killed last Friday afternoon up about 8 " to get it onto one of those on the back of my wife's Toyota mini-van last Friday night. Lifting the front half up, then the back was not too bad. He is aging comfortably in our insulated garage right now. The weather is perfect for that. The temperature has been averaging about 35 F in there per the wall thermometer. I open the window at night to let in cool air, and close it and cover it by day. The hide will come off on Saturday night and he will be processed Sunday night. Ten days of aging is perfect to get the all rigor mortis out of a 2-1/2 year old, but nine should get most of it. According to that same chart, he should yield 103 pounds of meat, but I usually trim out most of the sinew and fat and he looks to have lots of that so I will be thankful if I end up with about 80 pounds. I was also thankful to not need the old "deer fridge" (visible on the left side of the photo this year). My younger daughter named him "taco". He should keep her well supplied with those for quite a while.

Genny Scotch Ale and Whitetail Tenderloin

I hope they never go with a one buck rule, but I would not mind seeing the AR's as long as it was 3 points on a side. 4 points on a side would be a deal-breaker for me. The thing I like best about those AR's, is that they should help safety by forcing hunters to be more sure of their targets before shooting. In theory, that should reduce hunting accidents. I would only go for them though, if evidence could be produced from states or areas that already have them, that they do reduce accidents. I have not shot a buck with less than 3 points on at least one side in many years, so such an AR rule would have no effect on my own style, but might keep others and myself from getting shot by mistake. In addition, I would like to see it go to 3 bucks, for those who buy an archery, regular, and ML licence.

Nope, as a pure meat hunter, the plan is coming together like clockwork right now. If it ain't broke don't fix it. One more average-sized deer should get us plenty to last for another year, and I still have all of gun season and late ML. The slob I killed with my crossbow on Friday was so heavy (according to the PA "how much meat will you get" chart that someone posted based on chest girth measurement), that we probably have enough now. If it gets tight around September or October next year, I may have to put the kids on half rations. They have already named the fat slob hanging out in our garage "Taco". I will go out now and fetch the tenderloins for lunch with my oldest daughter, before her sister and mother get home from the in-laws place in the Adirondacks. Reading a couple pages from the Bible each morning before leaving the house, and every so often up in the stand, pays off in spades. I guess I could use a plan to fill some antlerless tags however. Full inclusion of Crossbow would help a ton with that, but the anti's will probably manage to hold that off until hell freezes over.

My prayers are with you Upstate.

I am going to try with some dmps today, for the last time with my crossbow this year. No luck finding my rope-pulley device yesterday after loosing it Friday night. I did not think my finger tendons could take drawing that crossbow again, so a "field expediency" was made this morning involving a couple short lengths of chain, some hinge pins, a couple grab hooks, and some duct tape. It works like a champ, and is much faster than the rope-pulley device for drawing the crossbow. It may even allow for a "double" if a group shows up. Fat chance of that however, because in four seasons, I have yet to have a single antlerless deer in range during crossbow season. It will be intersting to see if the fixed muzzys will put them down inside of 40 yards as has the 3 bladed mechanicals on the bucks I shot in three of the last 4 years.

I do not think it has gotten worse thru the years. We just hear about it more now, due to social media. This problem has always existed and may have been worse in the old days. Improvements in technology have helped a bit. I remember taking a few informal surveys during archery season, among friends, coworkers, classmates in school, etc, more than 30 years ago. For a few consecutive years, the numbers on shots came out like this: For every deer that was recovered, there was one that was missed, and two that were lost and not found. I lost a few myself back then myself, which is why I started doing those surveys. On the years when I lost a deer that I had shot at (I have yet to miss one clean), I considered that my archery deer for the season, even if I could not find it. I stopped hunting archery for the rest of those seasons. There was no way I could be certain those deer survived and I felt I did not deserve to kill more than one deer in a season. I am fairly certain three of those survived, as they were struck in the shoulder blade, with no penetration. One was actually killed by a friend with a shotgun slug a month later and my old arrow wound was just a big healed-over scar. I am certain that the one I hit too far back did not make it however. A real problem is the careless hunters who just kept right on sticking them and not finding them, until they are finally able to recover one. I remember a few that may have struck 3 or 4 in a single season. Even now, I see a lot of bad advice given, telling folks who post about not being able to recover a deer, to get right back out there and give it another try the next day or weekend. I think those folks should sit it out the rest of the season, take some time to think about what they have done, and wait for gun to open to "give it another try" That may sound a little harsh but that is the best way to learn from mistakes, and to force folks to get better. I also see "clean misses" as worse than hits that are not recovered, because those arrows are further from the kill zone. Anyone who does miss a deer clean should also be done for the season. Spend the rest of it at the target range, get better, and try again the next year. If you are missing deer clean, you are likely to wound two before you kill one clean. The non-vital area on a deer is more than double the size of the vital area.

I had a similar experience today and yesterday. My folks had been watching a big, 2.5 year old 6 point and a little 1.5 year old 4 point hanging out together all summer at their place. Yesterday afternoon, the big one offered me shot (see crossbow harvest thread) but his rack was busted up and he was down to 5 points left. If the 4 would have showed up first, he would have taken the bolt instead at this point in the season. He did show up this morning, while I was over there looking for a doe, the rope pulley I lost, and my bolt. It won't bother me too much if a bigger one shows up this afternoon or tomorrow (my last days to hunt archery season), but that has not happened to me after punching a tag in the 35 years that I have been hunting deer. Admittedly, the effort I put in drops way off after my buck tag is filled, which probably has a lot to do with it. Where the heck are all the does? I am still waiting to christen my crossbow on one of those. Even a tasty button buck would be good. Either one would give us enough venison to make it thru until next year at this point.

I think it may be just about ready to start in zone 9F right now, and this is about a week later than normal. The fat 2-1/2 year old 5 point that I killed yesterday afternoon had a busted up rack, indicating that he has been doing some fighting. My folks watched him feeding on clover and winter wheat, for about 5 minutes, before he wandered over to my stand. Usually they do not waste much time on that, after they start chasing. He was still carrying a lot of weight in the hind quarters also (see photo in crossbow harvest thread), which usually dwindles way down by late rut. Fat behinds are a good indication of pre-rut.