wolc123

Damn, you are heading pretty close to where I had to give up on a big set of tracks last Sunday, because I had to get the girls home from their grandparents place. It was a big wide set of tracks, headed up a mountain at 11:00 am, not too far off route 3. I hope you get him, or at least get a look at him. We made it out of there just in the nick of time on the holiday weekend. There was a huge backup Westbound on the 90 about an hour later and my brother got stuck in it for a few hours.

Some of you guy's with scales should consider checking the chest girth with a tape measure so we can develop our own NY state weight table. A problem I have with the PA table is that it does not say if the chest girth should be measured before or after field dressing. Both of my girth measurements were after field dressing so the deer may have actually weighed even more. p.s, Thanks for bringing Him up again Chef, and I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Wake her up and have her show you the picture again.

I guess it does look a little like an exit wound. I put a bullet in the but hole once but never had one exit from it. Last season, I did have a crossbow bolt exit near that spot, but a little further off. IT must have deflected off the rear of the shoulder blade and angled back. I wondered how I could have hit the opposite side rear leg when I aimed just behind the front as he hobbled off dragging the leg. If that was a bullet exit on that doe, it is a little off. If you are going to do it, might as well hit the spot right on.

What about the butt-out thread you started last year ? Does your wife remember the dump you left her that she took a picture of for you ? Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

That was blood stains from the "blood rinse" that I always do to get rid of any bad stuff (#1, #2, stomach juice, etc) that might be left in the cavity after gutting. I always wash the blood from forward of the diaphram down thru the butt-hole rather than just dumping it out. Blood does not taint the flavor of the tenderloins as much as piss, crap, or stomach juice, and is always readily available in sufficient quantity to get the job done. Why do you have such a butt fixation ? edit, I just finished the skinning and the shot was just forward of the shoulder blade, at the base of the neck as the doe passed broadside. The slug struck very close to my intended point of impact and is probably my second best shot on a deer. I think you remember my best one, since it was you who provided me the incentive to stick with the bore gauge with which I was able to verify it's exact position and angularity.

I would say it did, based on how much ended up in the butcher trays that I used, and what the PA game commission chart indicated for that chest girth. I initially thought it would only yield about 80 pounds. It appeared to have a lot of fat on it, based on what came out of the cavity while gutting and the looks of the rump. As it turned out though, there was very little fat to trim. It was very solid with about 2" of lean meat covering the outside of the ribs (that probably explains the high chest girth measurement). Usually, I don't get much useable meat from the sides the rig-cage. Using the arrow instead of the bullet also results in a lot less bloody meat being wasted.

Thank you for bringing up God again. We just can't get enough of Him on a hunting website. After all, it is He who determines the fate of all living things. I am very thankful that He blessed us with that fat doe today. A smaller button buck would have been nice though , considering the drag across that ditch and the broken rope and wet foot I suffered. I still have three 9F DMP tags, and an either or ML/bow tag, so it ain't over yet. I will be gunning for one (or four) thru about ten additional hunts that I have planned thru the end of ML. After today's church-day good fortune, I may just skip another of those planned Sunday morning hunts. p.s, The 2-4 estimate was based on 50 pounds from an average-sized deer. We went into this season with 75 pounds of vacuum-sealed venison left over in the freezer from last year (including a few choice button buck roasts that I am saving for special occasions). The Big buck (your kind of BB) I killed during crossbow this year yielded about 100 pounds. 60 pounds from today's doe puts us about 35 pounds in the black. Any more (except button bucks) will be go to my brother in law, who makes the best jerky I have ever had, or to the hunters feeding the hungry program. As long as the freezer don't quit, we should not starve. I am very thankful to have discovered the secret for living a subsistance lifestyle like we do. It beats the heck out of raising beef, or getting your food from pricey food joints. edit: I forgot that my gun buck tag also reverts to an either/or tag so (5) of my kind of BB's is possible yet this season. I am not sure how many "fatted calves" I deserve but one would sure be nice this year. I will continue to target the largest antlerless deer first though, because feeding the hungry is more important than feeding me like a king.

$30 won't buy an honest scale. I prefer spending my money on bullets or giving it away to the poor.

I shot this doe (37" chest girth) today at 2:30 in zone 9F with my Marlin 512 slugmaster and Hornady SST sabot. The shot was to the neck so not much meat will be lost. Gun season had not been going so well, and I had decided to skip this morning's hunt and take our family to church instead. It comes as no surprise that decision has paid off. One way or another, the good Lord has always provided for ALL of our needs. Now our venison supply is secure for the year, with the 60 or more additional pounds (per the PA game commission table) that this fat doe should provide.

Her chest girth (after gutting) was 37", which translates to a live weight of 146 and 115 field dressed. Edible meat should be 66 pounds per the PA game commission table. I am not sure if that chest girth is supposed to be before or after gutting. Either way, she was heavy enough when water-logged to break the rope I used to drag her thru that ditch. That resulted in me get a pretty good soaker on my left foot. I am thankful that it was unseasonably warm, or my foot would have froze as I made the long walk up to the barn for the tractor.

Gun season was not going so well for me, up until this afternoon. My buddy from work wounded a 4-point, just after sunrise on opening day and we spent about 2 hours of "prime time" looking for it. I went back after dark and spent another couple hours with the "bloodglow" looking more with no success. He had dropped it with a single shot, then texted me that it was down, but crawling away. I wish he would have used another shot or two, because the buck got back on its feet and escaped. I suspect he hit it above the spine, which temporarily parallized the back legs. The only live deer I saw, up until yesterday, were a couple of unidentified tails and buts well out of range. Yesterday a 1-1/2 year 6 point offered me a 40 yard shot over at my folk's place at 7:35 in the morning, which I did not take for three reasons: First, he was 10 yards onto the neighbors land and I was not sure he would appreciate it. Second, the shot would have been thru some thin brush which may have deflected my 16 ga foster slug, dropping the percent chance of a clean kill to just about 90 %. Third, I would not mind saving my buck tag for a shot at a bigger one. I was having second thoughts on my decision to skip this morning's hunt and take the family to church instead, as I laid in bed next to my wife and heard a shot ring out next-door at 7:35. After church, I got up a treestand that is on the back edge of a 5-acre woodlot at the back of our farm. At 2:30 pm, I heard something that sounded a little larger than a squirrel, and noted a deer approaching on the other side of a deep ditch. She was moving at a fast trot, and I led her enough to fell her, with a shot to the neck, when she reached an opening. I left the guts in to drag her thru the water and my rope broke as I tried to pull her up the steep bank. I am guessing she weighed about 150 on the hoof. She is gutted and hanging in the garage, bleeding out now. I will check her chest girth to get a more accurate weight estimate prior to skinning her, and post that with a picture in the harvest thread. The Lord was very good to us today, in providing plenty of venison to last until next year, so the last thing I want to do is weigh her on a "dishonest scale". I guess going to church this morning paid off. They are calling for temps in the 50's tomorrow and Tuesday, so it will be in the deer fridge for her. After a week in there, she should be perfect for processing.

I lost the rope-pulley draw device for my crossbow after killing a buck with it in the late afternoon on a Friday. I had planned on hunting the following Saturday and Sunday to work on my DMP's. I managed to draw the 150 pound entry-level model freehand on Saturday morning, but it was tough on the tendons of my fingers. Once was enough of that for me. Sunday morning, I took about 15 minutes to make up a couple pull handles using a few links of chain, a couple steel grab hooks, hinge pins, and some duct tape. These "field-expedient" handles are much faster and simpler to use than the factory rope-pulley device. A second shot from a treestand might be doable with them. Maybe I can try that tomorrow, where I have a hot spot that is only 300 feet from some neighbor's buildings. The crossbow is legal in that situation (250 ft setback requirement) but firearms are not (500 ft setback required). A double with the crossbow would be cool.

The pressure washer does work very well. Like DH say's, cut off the hide and ears first, then give it a blast. I get suited up in rain gear and place the skull in a wood frame (like an old pallet) out on the blacktop or concrete driveway. You have to flip it over a few times to get all the spots. It also takes me about 20 minutes with a 3200 psi washer to blast everything off. When done, just blast all the remnants off to the side of the driveway. and the birds always have all the mess cleaned up within 24 hours. It is so much better than having to smell up the house or boil in a pot outdoors, and then have to clean the stuff up manually afterwords. There are a few good Youtube videos on the process. This picture was taken with the one on the right, fresh off the blaster, two days after it was killed.

My brother in law makes the best jerky that I have had by a very wide margin. The stuff he makes is in great demand wherever he has brought it. He raises grass fed cattle and gets the best results from a 50/50 mix of lean ground beef and venison. 100% venison is too dry, and 100% beef (even "lean") is too oily. I don't like wasting good cuts of venison on jerky, which is what you have to do to get half-way decent stuff using sliced meat. Grinding the lesser cuts and mixing it with lean ground beef gives you the most bang for the buck (or doe). Right now I am about 25 pounds shy of having enough boneless venison for my own immediate family, to last until next season (our kids love tacos). Hopefully the deer start cooperating a little better for the rest of gun season and ML. That way I can send some his way. He has never killed a deer on his own, but usually ends up with plenty from friends and family because we all like his jerky so much.

I use to keep and eat all the deer livers, but now I only keep those from 6-month old deer. The older ones are too tough. That one looks ok in the OP photo. How old was the deer ?

But with every beat, another hunter or two supports full inclusion. So far I have seen none go from supporting it to not supporting it. The more threads like this we see the sooner it might happen. It would be great if it happens prior to next season. Maybe then I could get my first antlerless deer with my crossbow.

Those black army mickey mouse boots look kind of goofy but, along with a pair of heavy wool socks, they keep my feet warm on stand in the coldest conditions. They are also waterproof up to about a foot. You can find them surplus for $ 40 , or $ 80 new. That is cheaper and they work better than any other boot I have tried. I don't know how they would work for the sweaty footed folks however. Fortunately , I have not suffered from that. One other thing to consider if your feet are getting cold is a better head insulation. A face mask and warm ear flaps help out a lot. Most of the body's heat loss is usually off the head, and blood flow to the extremities (feet/hands) is typically reduced to conserve heat. Less blood flow to the feet, means they get cold. Keeping your hands in a muff, with a chemical hand-warmer can get some heat back in, as can drinking some hot cider (or coffee) out of a thermos. Getting out of the wind also helps. Better boots treat the symptoms but conserving or adding heat deals with the cause.

"The Lord detests dishonest scales," (Proverbs 11). He has no problem with tape measures.

I once killed a big doe, that woke up after getting knocked out by a car, using a pocket knife with a 1-1/4" long blade. Now I carry one with a 1" blade, just in case an opportunity comes along to best that personal record. The key is keeping the blade razor sharp, a good half-nelson with the left arm and finding the jugular on the first cut with the right. After that, it will be bare hands I guess. The local cops appreciate not needing to use their own weapons for that job, and the extra paperwork (and sometimes embaressment) which that entails. Much of this road carnage could be eliminated, if they would just let us hunters have at those deer a bit earlier with the crossbows. In this grossly overpopulated area (9F/9A), a vertical bow is next to useless on antlerless deer, because they always travel in groups and one pair of eyes will almost always catch the draw. 52. How are you able to predict what the DEC will do ? Have you killed deer with crossbows and vertical bows ? How about Reeltime with the crossbow ? Lacking experience with both weapons, what you say is just hearsay and adds no real value to your arguments. I have personally killed more than twice as many deer with a vertical bows than I have with a crossbow, but I also wounded a few with those that I never recovered. My shot and recovery percentage with the crossbow stands at 100%. That makes this personal with me.

We got to keep whittling away. If one or two more can be convinced on full inclusion it is a step in the right direction. Sooner or later it is bound to happen. There is no point in slowing down while we have the momentum.

That sounds awesome, congrats on a great year. My gun season is not starting out so good but I hope to change that this upcoming long weekend up in the NZ. I have scored up there on two of the last three Thanksgiving weekends, so hopefully this one will be good. I am looking forward to a little still-hunting, and some snow. One more deer would top off our freezer pretty good, added to that big crossbow buck and about one and a half deer left over from last year.

This was my fourth season, and best to date. I hunted one of the three days in the NZ (the last 7 days up there don't count because ML is also legal then), and saw two antlerless deer that were well out of range as I was still-hunting between spots. They saw me at the same time I saw them, and I was unable to close the range before they high-tailed it into cover. I hunted five of the 14 days in the Southern zone and saw single antlered bucks on three of those days. The second one was the largest of those, and also the only one that was in range. He might be the heaviest buck that I have ever killed. I think all the rain we had this year really helped them put on weight compared to the drought we had last year. The 2-1/2 year old, busted up 5-point that I killed this season measured 43" girth around the chest, behind the front legs. That amounted to about 100 pounds of boneless venison for the freezer, not only per the PA game chart, but also according to the big plastic meat containers that I use for processing. I have been able to fill my buck tag on the 3 of the last 4 crossbow seasons, but have yet to have an antlerless deer in range. I think full-inclusion would help out a lot there, as the wise old does in my neck of the SZ woods don't take too long to go full-nocturnal after they detect a little early archery season pressure.

I think threads like these are very effective because we are seeing more and more people who were previously against crossbows and full inclusion who are now for one or both of those. By contrast, I have not seen any evidence of anyone who was previously for crossbows and/or full inclusion change their mind to being against. The single biggest issue that seems to sway folks over to the pro-crossbow side, is less likelihood of wounded and non-recovered deer. It is true that a crossbow can still wound deer, but it is far less likely at almost all skill levels. A close second would be age-related health problems. Clearly the anti-crossbow folks are fighting an uphill battle. The ground they are standing on is based only on selfish elitism, which does nothing to help their cause.

I imagine that anti-crossbow organizations, like NYB, have instructed their members to slam crossbows and full inclusion and to use every opportunity in any public place to get the last word in, right up until their dying breath. This dwindling number of individuals have been duped into believing that the sky will fall, despite clear evidence to the contrary, from nearby states like Ohio and PA. At the same time, we are seeing the emergence of pro-crossbow organizations. I have to imagine that the antis now feel a lot like the Rebs did during the Civil War, after Gettysburg. They must be starting to realize that the cause they are fighting for is lost. I agree with the title of this thread and that it is high time we pro-crossbow folks make peace with them and comfort them in this time of the anti's great distress. That is why I keep bringing up the ANTI-crossbow "Mecca" of Oregon, where they could very likely live out their twilight years without the threat of a "crossbow" invasion.