wolc123

That is some great pike bait there.

What I would look for in a nasty thick area is one that is fairly large and impossible to see more that 10 yards or so in most areas. Try and anticipate where the deer will enter it and get set up to ambush them there, when they are pressured by other hunters. Take the wind direction into consideration. Try to find a little opening in the thicket, and/or get up in a portable tree-stand to extend your range a bit. Stay out of the trees if you have turkeys around however as they will pick you out quick. I have often seen deer and turkeys together in these situations. They take advantage on each other's stronger senses. The deer like the turkey's eyes and the turkeys like the deer's nose and ears. Together, they have a nearly impregnable defense, but you can outwit them if you are hiding in the right place at the right time.

The top deer round is the 30/06 (150 gr to be specific). The 140 gr .270 is a close second, and the .308 a not too distant third. One thing that keeps these rounds on top is availability and cost of ammo. When choosing a whitetail rifle for NY state hunting, I would stick with one of those calibers. Personally, I use the 30/06 and have no complaints about it's performance. Even more important than caliber, is the rifle itself and the scope. I usually hunt from a stand or blind where long shots are common. A heavier, bolt-action rifle with a variable power (3-9X), high-quality scope is the way to go in that scenario. If you will be still-hunting in cover where most shots are under 75 yards or so, then a light-weight, "carbine" type rifle, with a low power scope or even open sights, would be better. The bolt-action is the undisputed king of the long shots, but a pump, or semi-auto would probably serve you better for short range work. You will likely get as many opinions as you get replies on this question and those I have listed apply to myself.

If you are after big bucks on public land you should consider "thinking outside of the box". To get big, they got to be old and to get old in pressured areas they have to evade those "expert" 10% of the hunters who kill 90% of the bucks. I see the exact same thing happen in fishing. It is often some new, non-expert who lands the largest single fish, which falls for some crazy deal that no "seasoned" angler would consider. My wife almost always catches the biggest bass when I take her out, but never the most and she never concentrates much on it. I can't count the number of hunters I know who's first buck was also their largest. Read stuff on hunting sites like this and magazines, etc, and try doing the opposite. For example, one of the largest bucks I ever saw up in the Adirondacks was bedded in a little grassy thicket just off the shoulder of a main highway, with a hunting camp right across the street. The hunters in that camp would always take trails deep into the woods, or even take boats across the lake to spots where they would begin their hunts, ignoring that little thicket just a stones throw away. The only reason I hit it was because I noticed some deer hair on a barbed-wire fence along the perimeter.

Just like with everything else, he definitely had the final say as far as where that buck and doe ended up. I am glad he chose "deer heaven" (our freezer). We ate pretty good that winter, but I was in for a little surprise when I skinned the buck. Someone had hit it a few weeks prior with an arrow. I was thankful that I did not cut my hand on the mechanical broadhead, still attached to a couple inches of aluminum shaft and lodged under the hide on the exit side. It looked like it passed thru, under the spine but above the lungs. Most likely the blades did not deploy properly on contact. That was quite a few years ago, before they had the bugs worked out of that design. I may have got more usable meat off the 4 point that stood under my stand. I threw away all the "questionable" looking stuff around the arrow wound, including the front half of the back-straps. He was showing no sign of injury while on the trail of those does, but would have never survived the winter with that arrow wound. All the rest of the meat from that buck went into grind and sausage. Fortunately the doe was a picture of health and made lots of good chops, steaks, and roasts.

For a few years, while hunting our own farm in a shotgun zone, I packed my Remington 870 slug gun with short smooth-bore barrel and open sights along with my T/C omega 50 cal ML with a 2-7X scope. That combination worked ok, with the scoped ML good for shots between 75 and 150 yards and the shotgun for closer. It was a bit of a hassle packing two guns to and from the stand however. I would usually hold the ML and have the shotgun at-the-ready, close by. I only ended up using both one time when a group of 5 or 6 antlerless deer came by about an hour after sunrise on opening day. I had one antlerless tag as well as my buck tag. When the largest doe in the group stood broadside at 90 yards, I dropped her there with a shoulder blade shot using the ML. The other deer all ran away after the shot. Just about a minute later, before I reloaded the ML or went down to gut the doe, I saw two more deer approaching on the same trail the earlier group had used. I could see as they got closer that both were bucks. The smaller one, a 4 point, 1.5 year, stopped about 10 yards from my stand, while the larger one, a 2-1/2 year, 8 point walked up to the dead doe. I had a good rest and had practiced with the shotgun at that range so I opted for the more difficult shot at the larger buck. Fortunately my aim was true, also hitting him in the shoulder blade and dropping him there right next to the doe. It made for an easy recovery as they both were on an old logging road and I was able to back the tractor right up to them and slide them onto my 3-point carryall. We are still a shotgun zone here and I much prefer the single gun I use now, A Marlin M512, rifled, bolt-action 12 ga. shotgun with a low-power Bushnell scope . That thing is more accurate that my ML, packs two extra shots, and has about double the retained energy at 150 yards. My longest kill with it was a big doe at 163 yards, and several times I have been able to "double" with it on antlerless deer. I still have not taken an antlered buck with it though. Maybe this fall I can break the ice there. I am going to be a little less selective now that they wont let us kill bucks in the late ML season in my home zone.

I don't know if I would call them babies. They just don't know no better. Crossbows have come along way lately, as your video clearly demonstrates. Most of them folks are still thinking back to the days when they were very front-heavy and difficult to handle. Even some of the "cheap" ones are not like that anymore. My little $250 model actually points and handles almost as well as my Ruger 10/22 carbine, even weighing about the same. It is just over the state minimum 17" width when extended, only about 12" wide when drawn, and works like a charm from a tree stand. Last season I had misplaced the rope cocking device on one weekday morning when I had a very rare few hours off work. I was very thankful then for it's mere 135 lb draw weight, as I was able to draw it unassisted without too much effort. Wouldn't you know, that turned out to be the morning that I filled my buck tag with it. The deer at home seemed to have me well patterned last fall, as a weekend hunter, and I caught them off guard that morning when I showed up mid-week. I will be the first to admit that my experience with a crossbow on deer is limited to that single 59 yard shot, and I give full credit for where it struck (thru the heart) to my best buddy upstairs. Hopefully I will see a little "under 50" action with it this fall. I would love to get a crack some antlerless deer with it, hopefully some of the big old cow/does that have stymied me for several years now. The last year I did real well on those was when I switched to a bolt-action rifled shotgun that just about doubled my range from the smoothbore I had used prior. That also caught them off-guard I suppose. They have since adapted well and now go completely nocturnal by the midpoint of archery season when they detect human scent in the woods. Now they are usually always holed up tight in the bushes by day by the time gun season opens. I have (4) tags for antlerless deer now and hope to pick up a couple more when they become available after Nov 1. Last year was my best ever in terms of venison poundage (all bucks including a large, gift 2.5 year and a road-kill button buck in addition to my 2-buck limit which included an Adirondack rifle buck who's huge body was closer in size to that of a small moose) thanks in small part to that crossbow. I just carried the last 100 pounds of vacuum-sealed buck meat upstairs and crammed it into the (2) small "fridge" freezers up here so I could defrost the big one in the basement. That is one of the last jobs I can check off my list in preparation for this fall's hunts. Now it is time to get out on the range and make sure all the guns and the crossbow are still ok.

Crossbows can be used in any open gun season, including early and late ML seasons, starting last season. They are also legal for the last 10 days of early archery season in the Northern zone and the last 14 days in the Southern zone. Those stretches are different with the Northern zone opening earlier, so you get a total of 24 days now to use a crossbow in NY prior to gun season opening. I will likely hunt 2 days up North before switching to my ML, and (4) in the South. A $250, 6.5 pound, compact, 300 fps, 50 yard compound for 6 days is good for me now. One change that may have some effect on crossbow season this fall is the elimination of the ability to harvest bucks during the first two weeks of some of the more overpopulated zones. The hunters have not been able to get the job done in these areas. That is cool that you donate venison to help feed hungry people. That is where God intended them to go or he would not have created such tasty animals. I hate to see farmers pushing their nuisance permit carcasses into hedgerows to feed coyotes and such. All we got to do now is get that small, elitist group of bowhunters, who are working so hard to keep the crossbow out of "their" season, to let it in. I don't know any of them who are much interested in killing does. All the bowhunters I know, who can no longer take bucks in these zones, are planning to hunt other zones now where they can kill bucks. Maybe allowing them to take bucks again in those zones, in exchange for letting the crossbow in, would be a fair trade. Even if they don't settle for that, the removal of that bow-hunting pressure from those early weeks should make the crossbow hunting better when it finally does open. Good luck with that thing in NY. A 100 yard crossbow, that would be legal throughout early archery season, would be about the best thing I could think of to get deer populations under control in those newly-regulated, "antlerless-only", for two week zones.

Thanks for posting that video. It looks like you may have there a legitimate 100 yard deer hunting setup, in the right situations (no wind, calm standing deer). What is your farthest kill on a whitetail with it, or something similar if you have not tried it yet? I would also be interested in the bolt penetration you have achieved on deer at longer ranges. I know my $250, 300 fps entry-level x-bow tops out for a pass thru at about 50 yards. From your video, it appears that about 10X that much cash might double my effective range. When and if they give us the rest of archery season here in NY, I might think about that. Until then, I will settle for my $250 worth of equipment and a 50 yards effective range. For those bow-hunters who will pile on the range thing and how "unethical" it is, consider that the range where deer are affected by "release noise" might be about 20-40 yards. Beyond that, it is just another harmless, natural sounding noise in the woods to them, like a branch falling, or a turkey landing off in the distance. Over 40 some years of deer hunting and observation, I have seen countless deer that have not repositioned their kill zone in 10 minutes or more. That is the time to hit them at long range with a bolt from an x-bow, but only from a rest, with a good scope, and on days with little or no wind. The second or so that it takes the arrow to reach them makes no difference in cases like that. You are just hung up on all the string jump woundings that occur in great number each season during archery season with conventional archery tackle. The x-bow has the potential to greatly reduce those happenings. For future experiments, a little more on penetration into an actual deer (maybe fetch some road-kills or something), and some cross-wind stuff would be good.

I have fished that lake usually once or twice a year, over the last 40 years or so. It has been a while since I got any smallmouth there, but I do remember one lunker long ago that I took by accident and released while pike fishing in May. As far as game-fish, Northern pike are what that lake is most known for and that is almost certainly what your early big fish was. 30-40 inchers are relatively common there. I am not much of a pan-fisherman but I know that lake is also popular for those. I hear they did very well opening day this year with a bass tournament held out of the State launch on the South end. We went out the next day and didn't do so hot with just a few short largemouth. I always used to head down there on the opening couple weeks of pike season in May. We have taken many limit catches of those there over the years, mostly on Bucktail jigs/minnows and/or live shiners below a bobber. My own largest was 36" about 10 years ago. My wife has pretty much put a stop to my pike fishing now, since my Brother in Law choked on a y-bone a few years ago up in Alex bay and had to go to the hospital to have it removed. I did keep a 36" pictured above (may resemble the "one that got away" on you on Silver) up at Alex bay on the St Lawrence this summer because it had an injury on its side and I was interested to see what it had in its belly. It looked quite fat compared to a typical Northern. Turns out there was a recently swallowed 10" long smallmouth bass in there. The neighbor had also been after me to keep some for him because he loves eating them and he was thrilled to get them big fillets. My favorite spots on Silver Lake for pike in May is the shallow North and South ends on the weedline. Near the North East corner, on the drop-off near the water treatment plant, has also been productive for pike, and that is where I caught the big smallmouth years ago. We have taken a few walleye on that lake over the years while pike fishing, most of respectable size in the 5-7 lb range. I cant remember ever getting a limit of largemouth there but catches of 2-3, working mostly along the shoreline docks are typical during the summer months. Speaking of largemouth, we hammered them good today down on Finley lake in the far SW corner of the state. They were all over a Jig&pig thrown along the shoreline and boat docks. I just finished vacuum sealing a few packs and we are having some for dinner tomorrow. I know most folks prefer walleye or perch on the table but bass are my favorite. Unlike those "dryer" fish, which I do agree are better fried, bass fillets have just enough oil in them to keep moist when grilling or baking. As long as you keep them alive and fresh until you get the meat off them, they taste great too, and are not the least bit "fishy". They do get a bad rap when folks let the die on a stringer in warm water and still expect a good meal later. Our livewell got a good workout today, that's for sure.

I use a Ruger M77 bolt-action in 30/06, laminated wood stock with 3-9 Redfield Low-Profile/Widefield scope in rifle zones, with Federal classic 150 gr. ammo. That gun has not failed me yet. My longest kill with it was last fall's Adirondack 8-point at about 325 yards (based on "Google maps"). I had planned on getting the exact range this past Memorial day weekend with a GPS, but the bugs were too bad in the woods. I don't know how you spring turkey hunters can handle that. It sure was a lot nicer out on the lake fishing. A Marlin M512 bolt-action rifled shotgun, with walnut stock, Bushnell 4X scope and 2-3/4" Hornady SST's works ok for me in shotgun zones. It is not a real pretty or expensive gun but it usually gets the job done. My longest kill with it was a doe at 163 yards a few years back. This only time it let me down was when it failed to fire on a 20 yard doe because the firing pin froze up in extreme cold weather. I have since cleaned it thoroughly and lubed it and it hasn't failed me since. Seven years later, that still bothers me because we had to buy some beef that year. I usually tote my granddad's old smooth-bore "deerslayer" 16 ga, Ithaca 37 (the foster slugs themselves are "rifled" anyhow), and stick to spots where only under 75 yard shots are expected, when it gets real cold now days in the shotgun zones. Once, I even dropped it out of my stand into a ditch full of water, just giving it a basic, quick cleaning and lube after, and it has still cycled and fired every time no matter how cold it gets. That old pump-gun is another that has never failed to deliver for me on deer. I sure can't say that about partridge however, as I think I missed at least the first 10 that I shot at with the modified barrel on it. Anybody need a 16 ga, mod 37, Ithaca modified barrel? I will certainly never part with the gun itself or the "deerslayer" cylinder bore barrel. My Ruger 30/06 took my largest-bodied buck last fall, but this old shotgun took my first buck, and a few with larger racks. For ML, I use a T/C Omega 50 cal rifle with laminated wood stock and 2-7X Redfield Low-Profile/Widefield scope. My favorite hunt with that one was an Adirondack doe, and my first deer up there in those beautiful mountains. I will never forget what she looked like as she stared me down after taking the 240 gr sabot thru both lungs, with her group of 6 other antlerless deer standing behind her. The year prior, I had seen a group of deer feeding on the adjacent ridge, but it was 300 yards away, more than double the gun's effective range. That year I was right on that oak-ridge waiting for them, and she got the surprise of her life. It was such a remote area that it is possible she had never seen a hunter before. It was easy to imagine how it must have been back before there were so many in the woods. She stood there for about a minute, 30 yards away, until her legs began to wobble and she tumbled down a steep ravine. Fortunately, she landed right on the lane to the cabin that my father in law had rented for the weekend, making for an easy recovery. I did take a little heat from my sister in law when she jogged by the gut pile later that morning. It was gone completely the next day however as the buzzards could spot it easy there.

First off, congrats on the Raptor purchase, that is what I would go with today if they had given us the rest of archery season. That extra 30 fps would likely give you a pass thru at 60 yards. I know from my limited (1 shot) experience that 300 fps don't quite get it done at that range. As far as the weight thing goes, a heavier arrow flies slower than a lighter arrow launched from the same weapon. At slower velocity, the wind resistance force exerted against the arrow is lower. That is not a big deal with field points but is with fixed blade broadheads. This is why we probably will not see anyone posting footage of 100 yard or longer groups with that type of tip. I am sorry if I incorrectly assumed that the 200 yard bow was shooting a heavier arrow than the 100 yard crossbow shown in the two attached videos. I am not above making mistakes. I only know one guy who is, who I have mentioned previously in multiple posts. If you got a problem with that fella you should know that you are messing with fire. The kind that burns forever but does not consume. I hope you do well this fall with the Raptor, and on the bigger journey you on. Its never too late to get on the right track.

Arrow/bolt Weight is not a primary concern of mine. What I am still looking to see is what kind of group that x-bow can hold with fixed-blade broadheads or even mechanicals at long range. I also agree that many NYr's are clueless when it comes to what an x-bow can do, in hunting situations at longer range. Heck my 59 yard heart shot on a Whitetail buck last fall was a "chip-shot" compared to some of them shots we see on antelope and such out West. I do give full credit for that shot placement to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as it was 19 yards beyond where I had practiced (I guessed the range at 50). Had the arrow struck high-lung where I aimed, it would likely have been a single-lung hit and at best a very difficult tracking job rather than the quick, just out of sight recovery which occurred. The biggest mistake I see other hunters making these days is not giving credit where credit is due when it comes to their hunting success or lack thereof. Far too many blame bad equipment, not enough practice, other hunters, posted property, etc. The bottom line is the man upstairs determines where all deer end up and if you don't keep things right with him you got nothing. If and when NY allows full inclusion in archery season I will likely upgrade from the $250, 300 fps x-bow I used last season. Based on my shot last season, which only penetrated 8" into the buck (fortunately all the way thru the heart), I will limit future shots with that x-bow to 50 yards max. Showing me what kind of accuracy and penetration can be achieved at longer ranges would go a long way towards helping me decide what x-bow to purchase. I would pull the trigger on something that would cost less than $400, print a 4" group at 70 yards with broadheads, and provide pass-thru penetration.

Didn't I see a living breathing deer in that 100 yard x-bow video? The resistance from a that very small minority of conventional bowhunters is nothing but pure elitist selfishness. They don't want to share "their" deer with folks who lack the time or physical ability to become proficient with a regular bow.

It is a simple physics thing about more planning with a faster arrow. As velocity increases, so does the force of wind resistance. That is why your car burns more gas at high speed. The guy who made the 200 yard shot on the Coke bottle was using a vertical bow, fixed blade broadhead, and a long, heavy arrow, which had to be launched at a much slower velocity than the short crossbow bolts in the other video. That would reduce the planning effect. At least I don't see anything intentionally misleading in that last video, so I cant call "shinannigans" on it like I can on the x-bow video. What we don't know is what kind of group that fella could hold with fixed blade broadheads at 200 yards. We also don't know what the arrow penetration would be at that range, but the heavier arrow weight would work to his advantage there also. I did notice that the wind velocity was near zero on that 200 yard bow shot, based on the lack of motion in the grass. I think I could probably pop that coke bottle with my old compound in less than 100 shots on a calm day like that. The arrow has to land somewhere right? The odds of it hitting the location you intend are better than any other spot, so with enough arrows, almost anyone should be able to do it.

What is "dumber and dumber yet" is to post videos of 100 yard groups using field points (clearly evident by the prints on the target) and show fixed broadheads in the opening frame, and again near the beginning of the video footage. I don't believe he could hold anywhere near that group with those broadheads at that range. If that ain't misleading I don't know what is. A real good mechanical broadhead, from a slower x-bow might hold a 2 foot group or so at that range. With them fixed blades at that range, from that fast of a crossbow, he would be lucky to hold a 5 foot group. The faster the x-bow, the more they will plane off target. Sorry to rain on your parade but if you post BS like this on a public forum you better be ready to take some heat.

Does that mean he is not going to show us what it can do with broadheads at 100 yards? I call false advertising.

2 bucks total is the legal limit here. You can fill your gun season buck tag during the late ML or archery season, but you cant use your gun buck tag during the early archery season. If you buy an archery license and a ML license, you get a other tag, but it can only be used on antlerless deer. That allows you to kill a total of three deer in any zone but only two can have antlers. In some zones, including 9F where I live and do most of my hunting, up to (4) additional DMP's can be purchased, (2) before October 1 and (2) after Nov 1 in many zones if any tags remain. DMP's are also only good for antlerless deer. Things are pretty good for the meat hunters like myself now here in NY as (7) deer would fill just about any freezer.

I see it has no trouble with the field points, but I would like to see him try that with those fixed-blade broadheads. That makes it a good setup for target shooting but hunting is still a 50 (or in my case 60 with a "Jesus Bolt") yard game. Why the heck did he show the broadheads in the opening frame, then shoot the fieldpoints? Show me what it can do with them broadheads. I ain't all that into target shooting, but I got to eat.

Wow, hard to believe someone would actually try it. That is the only meat I know of that a crow won't even touch. I wonder what those fellas blood alcohol content was as they were forcing it down? It don't look like they were enjoying it very much.

Coyote meat must be pretty bad tasting. Those are about the only carcasses nothing touches at my place, not even the crows. I just throw them out on a field in the fall and winter after removing the hides and plow them under in the spring, usually the meat is just de-hydrated by then, but still covering the bones. I would assume that most of the lead gets into the ground without passing thru another "carrier". By contrast, deer, raccoon, squirrel, muskrat, rabbit, goose, duck, and woodchuck carcasses deposited on the same field are usually picked clean to the bone, often in just a day or two. Crows and coyotes picking at those carcasses provide some excellent long-range target practice.

Out in Western NY, I had planned on doing some field work today, but we got socked with a ton of rain last night. A neighbor kid who just graduated from high school this year suggested a fishing trip, so I took him up on it since it was too wet to do much anything else. He ended up getting a few nice smallies (mmm... fresh fish tacos for dinner tonight), and his first ever Niagara river musky. I caught just one monster of a sheephead myself, but the excitement on his face reeling in that big lunge really made the trip worthwhile. We ended up being very thankful for that rain that kept us off the fields today.

I am about as pure of a meat-hunter as you could be and I have struggled with that one almost every year. Fortunately, most of the times I have passed smaller bucks, I was rewarded with larger ones. Not all times however, and it does suck to end the season to be lacking meat and holding a tag. As a pure meat hunter, I am talking about body size not racks which no longer matter much to me. Two years ago I watched a small-bodied fork-horn walk cluelessly right under my stand on opening week of gun season. I brought up my gun and watched him walk away, never pulling the trigger. The thought of missing a crack at a big boy the following weekend for maybe 50 pounds of meat held me back. Big boy never showed that year however and that little yellow tag did not provide much nourishment for my family. Ironically, an almost identical buck showed up last gun season, in almost the same place, but not quite as easy of shot. Had it been, I doubt I would have held off given what occurred the previous season. Last season "Big Boy" did show up the following weekend however. I was rewarded with the heaviest buck I had ever harvested at well over 200 pounds field dressed. We still have some meat left from that one as I type. A similar thing happened to me at the end of early archery season last year. I fell asleep in my blind due to staying out partying too long the night prior. I was awakened by the footsteps of a tiny-bodied 4-point that had snuck in on me. I tried to lift my bow real slow but he caught a glimpse and flushed before I could get a shot. A heavier 6-point showed up 3 days later and took an arrow thru the heart for me. Sometimes "you snooze, you win" I guess. My harvest criteria changes based on the date and the remaining space in the freezer. On opening day or with a full freezer a 1-1/2 year buck has pretty good odds of getting a pass from me. He better look out later in the seasons (archery & gun) however. especially if our food supply is not good. For me food comes first and you cant eat antlers or tags.

As a pure meat hunter, I look at the body more than the rack. With deer meat, I am concerned with both quantity and quality. A 2.5 year old buck offers the best combination so they are number one on my hit list. Generally there is a huge jump in body size between 6 month and 1-1/2 years, and another huge jump between 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 years. Each of those years the meat quantity doubles or so. The "quality" of the meat is best at 6 months, drops significantly at 1-1/2, but does not drop off a lot more yet at 2-1/2. As a buck gets older than that the quantity of meat does not increase enough to make up for the loss in quality. They put on a few pounds a year up to 4-1/2, then probably lose a little. The 4-1/2 year old buck I took with my rifle last year was the oldest I ever killed. We just started eating the bulk of that one and I was surprised how good it is. The "bumper crop" of acorns we had last year, a quick, clean kill, two weeks of aging prior to cutting up at near ideal temps, and vacuum sealing surely helped a lot with that. My 1-1/2 and a 2-1/2 (gift from a friend) year old archery season bucks that we polished off earlier were still a bit tastier however, and did not require as long of "aging" to get tender (1 week and 10 days were good). The best place for me to put my buck tags is on 2-1/2 year old bucks and if given a choice between one with a larger rack or larger body, I would shoot the larger body every time. We always eat the deer in the order they are killed and are saving the best for last this year. That will be a little button buck road kill that a "hit and run" driver left at the end of our driveway last winter. I know that one will be the best because I pan fried all the "fresh" tenderloins, 4 days after the kills in order to do a true "apples" to "apples" comparison of 1/2, 1-1/2, 2-1/2, and 4-1/2 year old bucks. Last season was the first that I had an opportunity to conduct that test. As a pure meat hunter, why don't I just shoot does? #1, ever hear the phrase "don't shoot the "golden goose". #2, I can butcher bucks faster because there is always less fat to trim away. #3, Doe meat looses quality with age just like buck meat does, but the antlers make it a lot easier for me to determine age on the hoof. #4, the antlers make good grab handles for dragging the carcasses out of the bush, and a nice spot to tie the carcass tags. #5, the antlers make good wall decorations and reminders of successful hunts. Since we only get (2) buck tags in NY, and my growing family uses 4-5 "average" sized deer per year for food, most years we have to suffer thru some doe meat. Last season was the first exception that I can recall. We still like "doe meat" better than beef, and I don't mind killing a few "golden gooses" especially in the areas I hunt which have deer populations significantly above optimum.

I have always aimed to be in the stand about 1/2 hour before sunrise on opening day of gun, the first Saturday, and Thanksgiving (the "big 3" in our area). Other days and archery & ML seasons, I usually wait until legal light prior to walking in. I have spent most of the last 30 opening days of gun season on our farm in the southern zone, which has been in the family since just after the Civil war. I have killed about 15 deer on those days and more than half were from 1 to 10 minutes after legal shooting light and shot from a stand. I always check the times in the paper and do not load my gun prior to sunrise and I also unload it prior to sunset. I will never forget my first and fastest (the 1 minute buck). That was also the shortest season I ever had. It was my third year hunting and I was just 19 years old. I chewed tobacco back then and I could see in the moonlight that the brown spot I was trying to spit on in the snow below my stand was getting larger as the seconds ticked away. With about 2 minutes to go, I heard what sounded like clumsy person struggling thru the brush next to me, on the neighbors land. I kept looking back and forth between my watch and the spot the noise was coming from as I held a 16 ga slug in my right hand. Suddenly a feisty looking buck with a couple busted off tines, and 7 remaining points, stepped out of the brush right below my stand. I had seen this same buck several times during archery season but never in range. He buried his nose in the tobacco spot as his last minute ticked away. I prayed that the slug would find its way into the chamber, as I shoved it in and cycled the pump on my granddad's old bottom-loading, Ithaca model 37. Then I centered the crosshairs of the old 1.5X Weaver scope on the top of his shoulder and was relieved to hear the bang and feel the heavy recoil of the "featherweight" gun against my shoulder. The buck went into a spastic "break dance" and flopped around at the base of my tree for several minutes before laying still. I gutted him quick, hung him in the garage and made it to college in time to take an exam (not sure how I did on that one, but I did pass the class). Our neighbors don't have any clear lanes on their land so they usually follow our adjacent lane on their way into the woods, just after first light. Most of the rest of my opening morning kills were pushed to me by them at this time. I am glad some folks wait until daylight on the "big-days", as we would go hungry some years otherwise. My first buck came in the first minute of an opening day and my largest-racked, symmetric, "typical" came on the last just a few years ago. I never would have taken that one had I not climbed down from my stand 3 minutes prior to legal sunset. The only reason I did that was because the Bible I was reading at the time slipped mysteriously from my hands, falling to the forest floor below. I had filled a doe tag in the morning (thank you next door neighbor) and a freind had given me another so I had no real need to hunt until the last minute. Our meat supply was good. As soon as I got to the ground with the same loaded 16 ga Ithaca in my right hand (sorry about the "safety" issue but it paid off this time), and reaching for the Bible with my left, a flock of turkeys landed almost on top of me. As is often the case around here, they were accompanied by a deer. The turkeys like to hang with the deer to capitalize on their good sense of smell, and the deer appreciate the turkey's superior eyesight. Combined, they have a nearly impregnable defense against a hunter clad in blaze-orange. This wise old buck's line of turkeys was breeched now however, and his big rack and head popped out from behind a bush just 10 yards away. I brought up the gun, centered the older, 1.5X Weaver scope on his neck and put him down in his tracks, with just a few seconds of legal light remaining. As I have just explained here, I have pushed it close to the limit at least twice, but in thirty years, I have never been tempted by a shot prior to or after legal sunrise or sunset. I also have no respect for those who call them selves hunters yet think nothing of shooting way before or after the legal times. They are "poachers" in my book and there certainly is no shortage of them in these parts based on the shots I hear in the dark.