wolc123

The bass fishing was spectacular as always this year with smallmouth limits (I am a stricktly "catch and eat" guy, no "senseless-maiming" of fish for me) almost every day we went out up on the St-Lawrence this summer, and at my in-laws camp in the Adirondacks. Just a little "hit and miss" out on the Upper Niagara this year, but the neighbor kid took a nice musky on our last trip out there. He got me that day on the smallies too, but couldn't quite keep up on the largemouths the following week down on Findley lake. I am still planning on hitting the smallies a few more times, up at the in-laws, between morning and evening x-bow and ML deer hunts in a couple of weeks. Last year the lake froze up there, on the morning after I took my rifle-season buck. The lake temperatures are up sharply this year at this time. We might even get to have some fresh fish up there, along with our turkey and venison, this thanksgiving. I am extremely thankful for the ease with which one can "live off the fat of the land" here in NY. I gotta go, as I can smell that my wife has some of that fish just about cooked.

I am just about ready to go now. Spring planted foodplots (corn & soybeans) are not looking so hot but the late summer planted stuff (brassicas, wheat, clover) is looking good. I put an upper deck on one of my ground blinds that would have netted me a small buck last year if I had it then. I have 6 tree stands and three ground blinds ready to go, including clearing access paths and shooting lanes. I should be prepared for any wind or adverse weather conditions. I may hang one more portable over at my brother-in-law's place nearby and have already secured permission for that. I picked up one of those swivel, hammock-style seats to use with the x-bow and ML up in the northern zone in a couple of weeks and over the long thanksgiving weekend with the rifle. I have been getting lots of "marksmansip" practice along with my girls, mostly with the BB-gun. That's the best way to go now that .22 rimfire ammo is so scarce. 5000 bb's for $5, and you can re-use lots of them as they only pass thru one side of a pop can with the Daisy lever-action or with 4 pumps on the Crossman. Rather than watching the Bill's go down in ugly defeat to the Patriots on TV last Sunday, I listened on the radio out on the range. That let me use that time productively to get my ML, short range "foster" shotgun, long range "sabot" shotgun, and rifle, all hitting where I wanted them. I had already fine-tuned the x-bow a week prior. I even signed the little cert in the book to make me legal with that. I have been keeping up the pressure on my wife to use venison and we are finally down to the last shelf on the freezer. I have even been doing some burgers on the grill myself on the weekends to help her out a bit. I defrosted the freezer a week ago to help get ready for the new stuff when it starts coming in, hopefully in less than a month. I even fixed up a pressure washer that I garbage picked this spring and I cant wait to try it on a European-mount this fall. All I have to do yet is sharpen some knifes, pick up a couple more DMP tags when they come out Nov 1, and see if I can find my "missing" rattling horns.

I have rattled in a few. It does seem to work best early in archery season or late in ML season. I don't think I would do it again during archery because the bucks that respond are too "alert" when they approach, literally looking for a fight. "String-jump" is a much bigger issue in that situation. The last big one I rattled in during archery dropped about a foot when he heard my arrow release, taking the arrow right on the shoulder blade. Fortunately he was not hurt too bad, and a friend was able to take him "all healed up", a month later with a shotgun slug. A pure, unexpected "ambush" shot gives you much better odds of a clean kill with archery tackle. With a super-sonic bullet, no worries there. By the time they hear the shot, it is too late, as they will have already taken the hit. I rattled in a monster a few years ago in mid December. There was about 15 minutes of daylight left when I smacked an old, 7-point rack together a few times. Immediately after I saw a group of two does followed by a huge lumbering buck come running from across the street, about 500 yards away. The does passed right below my stand, but unfortunately the buck never got close enough for me to risk the running shot. Years prior, when we had to use side-lock ML's, I rattled in another big one, that had already lost one horn. That one came in at a slow walk, right below my stand. I centered the sight on his shoulders as he passed under, but only the cap ignited, not the main charge. He picked up his pace a little at the "crack", but got away unharmed. I may try the rattling a bit with the crossbow this year. Even though it is subsonic, as long as I keep the shots close (under 20 yards), string jump should not hurt too much, even on "alert" bucks.

I would say about 40 acres minimum per person, but it is very dependent on neighboring properties, type of land, and deer density. In the southern zone, I used to have a pie-shaped, narrow, wooded, 6 acre slice out in the neighboring town that was very productive for several years. It was in an agricultural area with lots of corn and soybeans nearby. When hunters moved in on three sides and built stands I could see from my own, the action dropped right off. I sold it when the hunting tanked. Now I hunt about 100 acres total of family-owned land between our farm and my folks. That is just about right for me and a guest on occasion. This land is about 1/3 mature hardwoods, 1/3 brushy cover, and 1/3 fields. The fields are about half planted in food plots - mostly clover with some corn, wheat, soybeans, and brassica. Up in the northern zone at my in-laws camp, there was 500 acres of private land with 3 hunters for the last three years. The deer density is a good bit lower up there, so more than 150 acres per hunter was good. That land consists of 400 acres of hilly, mature wooodland surrounding a 100 acre lake. There is also a thick, marshy creek bottom winding thru the hills with several beaver ponds. The woods are about half pines and half hardwoods.

After about 10:00 am on opening day morning, thickets are the place to be if it is a big buck you are after. Get into or on the edge of one and pay consideration to the wind as you enter your location. I killed my largest, symmetric-racked buck ever, just a few years ago, in the middle of a thicket where maximum visibility from the ground was about 15 yards. The range was 10 yards on opening day afternoon and I was on the ground, having just descended from my tree stand, which would have given me about a 50 yard shot in most directions in the thicket. I never would have gotten that buck from up in the stand however as he was with a flock of turkeys. They surely would have picked me out in my blaze-cammo, up in that tree from a mile away. That is a favorite defense tactic of big, old, wise bucks around here (hang out with turkeys to capitalize on their superior vision). The turkeys like hanging with the bucks to tap into their superior sense of smell. Together, they have a nearly impregnable defense against the hunter. God only knows why I got down from that stand with my loaded gun and 5 minutes of legal daylight to go.

Corn really fattens them up, that's just like all the 1-1/2's look like around here. This year will probably be tougher for me at home in the southern zone because my corn plots didn't do so well due to all the rain we got thru June. Driving around the fields on our farm tonight, it looked like there was hardly any ears on the stalks. I also noted that the emerald ash borers look to be killing off the trees that have held my two most productive stands for the last 30 + years. This will definitely be the last fall for those. Fortunately, last year was a banner year in both corn and venison production so there is still plenty of vacuum sealed venison in our freezer. Hopefully there will be another heavy acorn crop up in the northern zone where I plan on being at the tail end of archery, start of ML and mid rifle season. That will definitely be my best chance at filling the freezer again this fall.

That sounds like an excellent choice and a great buy. Keep us posted on how it works out for you this fall. It would also be nice to hear what kind of 100 yard, three shot groups it can put down from a rest. My old M77 30/06 with 3-9 Redfield widefield/low-pro scope still holds just over an inch with 150 gr, Federal classic ammo.

Back in the day of the M77's, Ruger bolts were a good step above the Savage. I have not heard anything bad about the American, and that is definitely the way I would go if I were looking for a new rifle today. My old M77 30/06 was still driving tacks at the range this past Sunday and has yet to fail me on a deer, so I ain't in that market yet. I did have a Savage 22/250 chuck rifle for a few years and it was nearly as accurate, just not real good in the fit/finish category compared to the Ruger M77 22/250 mkII that I replaced it with. It does sound like there are there a lot of good options out there these days in economical bolt-action rifles. Even the Mossberg is supposed to be pretty good.

The standing corn surely played a big role in that buck harvest last year. I would not expect a repeat this year with the soybeans and I would recommend moving the stand or better yet, putting up another. If you can get it near some standing corn, do it. Mature soybeans are near the bottom of a deer's preference list during hunting season, while corn rates on top. If corn is not an option, I would put the stand deeper into the woods on the edge of some thick cover, downwind from a trail or funnel area. If there are white oaks nearby, even better. Walmart had some nice hang-ons for $48 and splitting your time between two stands will make each more effective by reducing scent. Congrats on that fine looking buck. Corn or acorn fed bucks are about as good as it gets on the table.

If you are in one of the zones that has too many deer, then take the doe at the first opportunity. I live in one of them zones but my doe sightings are typically few as they wise up much faster than bucks. As soon as they detect a little hunting pressure they become fully nocturnal. Rarely do I ever see any doe now after opening day of gun season. A few years ago, a group of about 6 antlerless deer came by my stand about 1/2 hour after sunrise on opening day of gun season. I shot the largest one with my ML. The rest dispersed, but before I got down to gut her, or even got the ML reloaded, another group of 2 antlered deer came along on their trail. Fortunately, I also had a shotgun up in the stand and I used that to put the larger of the two bucks (an 8-point) down right next to the dead doe. If I ever killed another doe early on opening day and there was still a lot of time until lunch, I would get the guts out of her asap and prop her up to cool in the shade near my stand. The meat is always my biggest priority and taking care of that comes first, but I see no reason not to capitalize on a "free" decoy. During gun season, a dead doe shot in the shoulder blade is usually sufficient to hold accompanying fawns in place so you can send them to "deer heaven" with their momma if you have adequate DMP's. That is usually not a problem here as anyone can get (4) DMP's plus (2) more "transfers" the last several years. That said though, I don't agree with the fact that does are better to eat. They all taste the same, but I will take a buck over a doe because I butcher all my own and I can do a buck much faster with less fat to trim. The fawns are in a class by themselves when it comes to table fare and I always hope for at least one every season. Their momma always gets the first shot however as I will take the quantity over the quality every time and killing the mommas does way more to control the out of hand deer population.

I am not qualified to give advice from a medical standpoint however I was fast approaching blindness myself, a couple years ago. What I can tell you with certainty, is that it can't hurt to give a little prayer for healing to the Man upstairs with the "sense of humor". He also has the sense to provide anything asked for to those who love Him.

I have always gutted them in the closest, semi-clear spot to where they fall. It don't make sense to me to drag that extra weight around and getting the guts out asap also improves the quality of the meat. Meat is the primary reason that I hunt. I cringe when I hear of folks "backing out" and coming back to find their deer the next morning. If they only knew the effect those steaming guts had on the flavor of the tenderloins they would never do that again. The coyotes are too abundant now in most of NY to get away with that anyhow so it's not such an issue any more. Of the hundred or so deer gut piles I have left in the woods over the last 30 some years, three were particularly memorable. The first was from a big doe up in the Adirondacks. I shot her early one morning with my ML, high up on an oak ridge. She was the largest of a group of 5 or 6 antlerless deer and she led the group as they climbed up the ridge to feed on acorns. I will never forget how she just stared me down after taking the sabot thru the lungs, until her knees began to wobble, then she toppled over the edge of the ridge. I slid down after her and was surprised to find that she was lying dead center, on the private gravel road that twisted around the mountain leading to the cabin my in-laws had rented for the long weekend. That made for a very easy recovery. I gutted her right there in the middle of the road. I walked down the road to the cabin, finding the whole gang of in-laws seated around the kitchen table eating breakfast. My older sister-in-law, who is somewhat of an anti-hunter, was not able to choke down her eggs after getting a sight of me holding the bloody bag containing the heart and liver. My father-in-law let me use his ATV to recover the carcass. Later in the day, I caught some flack after my sister-in-law reported the gut pile in the middle of the road after her morning jog. I told them I would clean it up the next morning, but not a scrap remained the next day. It must have been easy for the scavengers to locate it there. The next gut pile I remember was that from another doe that I had shot on a rainy opening day morning about 6 years ago. She and a button buck, nearly as big as her came by my comfortable ground blind about a half hour after sunrise. I shot her thru the lungs with a 12 ga sabot at 50 yards and she ran into some thick brush, falling in a little clearing about 50 yards in. Even with the rain, there was plenty of blood to follow and it was an easy recovery. I gutted her right there in that little clearing in the brush. That was right in the middle of the longest streak I have ever had of consecutive successful hunts. The Saturday prior I had filled my archery tag buck tag with a nice tasty 6-point, 1-1/2 year buck. The following day I killed another big doe from a tree stand in a hedgerow a couple fields away with my longest shot ever with a 12 ga sabot (163 yards). Since our venison supply was ok, my brother-in-law took that one home for his family, transferring his DMP to me. Fortunately, we tagged it proper, remembering to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, because the DEC pulled my niece over on their drive home with it strapped to the top of their mini-van. Just 16, it was her first time driving with her learners permit and I hear she got pretty nervous, maybe even cried a little bit, when she saw those red lights flashing. The following Saturday, seeking to extend my streak to 4, and fill my last DMP, or my gun buck tag, I stayed out a little longer than usual on the morning hunt. Sure enough a big button buck walked out of the brush and began feeding on clover, standing broadside, about 75 yards from my ground blind. I aimed behind the shoulder and fired the "chip shot". He ran into the brush, across about 50 yards of fresh snow. I was surprised to see no blood on the trail. I walked back to where he had stood and on very close examination, located two drops of blood the size of a pinhead. When I got back on his trail, I found him in the brush, right in that little clearing where his momma had fallen the week prior. All but a few scraps of her guts were cleaned up, but the area was littered with fox/coyote tracks. The last gut pile that stands out was that from the 6-point buck I killed with my x-bow last season. I gutted him at the edge of the brush he died in and I examined his stomach contents as I always do, to see what he had been eating. It was stuffed with corn as is always the case with deer killed on our farm. The following weekend, all that remained of the gut pile was two little piles of corn. I decided to do a little experiment and see if that corn would sprout, after passing half way thru a deer, and if it did, if it would still be "Roundup Resistant". I planted 12 kernels in an egg carton and not one sprouted.

I usually plant a clover and wheat mix in late August. The first fall, the wheat is the primary draw. For a little added early attraction, I often add some soybeans to the mix. Many foodplotters mis-use soybeans, thinking they need to produce pods. Ripe soybean pods rate very low on a deer's preference list. They certainly do love the sprouting greens however, and adding some to your fall wheat/clover mix provides a great early draw, much like the more expensive Austrian winter peas (AWP). A lot of foodplotters use rye rather than wheat in their late-summer mix, which I see as another mistake for 3 reasons. First, and most important, deer like wheat better and will not feed on rye if there is wheat close by. Second, wheat seed is easier to locate. And lastly, wheat is less expensive. In some situations however, rye is better. That would be when you plan on using it to prepare the spot for a high nitrogen-using spring plot the next year, such as corn. Rye takes up less nitrogen than wheat so the corn gets a better "jump" when you disk up the rye, compared to wheat, and allows you to use less starter fertilizer. The clover you planted this late-summer will likely not do much to attract deer this fall, but if you are into turkeys, it should attract them. They are especially fond of "baby clover", and love pecking at them little sprouts when you can just barely see them. Deer prefer tender clover, but they need a pretty good mouthful to feed efficiently. It is good to keep your clover tender by mowing it several times a season after it gets established. That also helps control the weeds and it is usually not too difficult to keep a white-clover plot going for five or six years, doing nothing more than cutting it a couple times per season. Look for your clover to be a hit with the deer next fall if you are able to mow it a couple times. Also, it is not too late to broadcast some rye or wheat over the top of your clover if you want a bigger draw this fall.

A neighbor kid did a European mount for me on an older buck a few years ago using the standard, boil it repeatedly and scrape method. He shot a young buck and was going to do that one, so I figured it would be just as easy for him to do (2). Mine turned out pretty good, but his 1-1/2 year skull got a little cracked up. It looked like a real pain of a job, messy, smelly, and time-consuming. I still have not "whitened" mine, but it don't look too bad the natural color. My wife is not crazy about it, and the kids think it is a little "scary" looking. I think it looks cool hanging on a rough wooden beam similar to that post. The next time I do one, I am going to use the "pressure-washer" method to clean the skull. I have heard from several friends that it works very good: fast, no smell, but still some mess I suppose. As long as I do it "out behind the barn" that should be ok. I garbage picked a nice high-pressure washer this spring, so I am ready to go. Another friend digs a big hole and covers the skull with dirt, letting nature take its course over the winter and spring. I don't think I have enough patience for that. It would look nice to have another one hanging on the opposite side of that beam at the front of our bar. Last years rifle-season buck would have been perfect, almost a match for the one the kid did for me, but my father-in-law really wanted a regular mount for his new Adirondack camp.

I like my venison or beef medium rare, and of those, I definitely prefer venison if it is properly aged. The worse thing you can do with any red meat, especially venison is to overcook it. That should be a crime. I would rather eat it raw than overcooked. Those folks who like their meat well done would be better off sticking to pork, chicken, or turkey. Even fish is much better when it is not over cooked. I am getting hungry now for some lightly seared tenderloins. It has been almost 9 months since I sunk my teeth into some of those. Hopefully I will get some more of that in about a month.

My first deer was a button buck in Allegheny State park back in the early 80's with a foster slug from my granddad's old, open-sighted, 16 ga, Ithaca model 37 "deerslayer" pump. A set of twins came barreling down a hill as fast as they could run. I lined up with an opening and shot at the lead one when they reached it. Looking back, and remembering a couple other times when I struggled after that with running shots, I think that the deer that folded up like a pheasant (struck perfectly thru the front shoulders) was probably the second deer. A couple years later I took my first antlered buck (A busted up 7-point) with the same gun after mounting a scope on it. He was standing under my tree stand with his nose in a "tobacco juice" stain on the snow that I had been making since I got in the stand about an hour before sunrise. That seemed to hold his attention better than doe urine, and it was the last thing he ever smelled. My first deer with a rifle (Ruger M77 .30/06, with 165 gr, Hornady "light-magnum" ammo) was a mule deer buck out in Colorado in the mid 90's. That will be the last one of those I ever shoot as they are horrible tasting compared to whitetails. I also don't care for the shape of their antlers compared to whitetails. I used the same gun, with a Federal "classic" 150 gr bullet, last fall on a big Adirondack buck. That was my first whitetail with a non-muzzle-loading rifle. We are eating that one right now and it tastes better than the finest beef. I have lost count of the deer I killed with my T/C Omega 50 caliber ML, but I think the first was a huge doe which was the largest from a group of 6-8 antlerless deer. She stood broadside and fell in her tracks, at 75 yards. The rest of the group dispersed at the shot. Before I could reload, two bucks came up on her trail. This happened on opening day of gun season in a shotgun-only zone about 12 years ago. Fortunately I also had my Remington 870 pump with open sights on a short deer barrel. The smaller buck stood about 25 yards from my stand, while the larger one stood right next to the dead doe. He got to meet her up there in "deer heaven" when my 12 ga foster slug got him in the shoulder blade.

Over-aged (ie spoiled) is definitely worse than under-aged. It is a lot easier when you control the process yourself. If you have an old fridge to use when it gets too warm, it is hard to mess it up. I value my venison way to much to trust a "seasonal" processer with it, especially some of them that get a pile of carcasses 3 feet high on opening weekend of gun season. There is much to be gained by processing your own besides just the money you save. Seeing first-hand, where to put a bullet to damage the least amount of valuable meat is a big plus (It is hard to beat center-lung, broad-side). Seeing the actual location of the shoulder blade helps the archer avoid that piece of "armor plate". Full control over the ageing process is the biggest advantage. Sizing the packs just like you want them is nice also.

That Alexander steam show is great and we would be there right now without the rain. My first time was probably 40 years ago when my granddad brought me and my brother. My ancestors ran a threshing business in this area using a couple old Rumely Oil-pull tractors. I still have some of the old manuals for them and the threshers. Old tractors are cool and we still have a few. I still use granddad's old JD M at my folks place, and a Ford 8N, Allis Chalmers C, and Farmall A at our place for food plot work. Unfortunately, the Allis C is going to have to go soon, since the two old barns my great-great granddad built on our farm in 1883 are on their last leg, and the single pole-barn I plan to replace them won't fit so many tractors. Except for missing the show, I welcome that rain. I managed to get the last of my logs dragged out of the woods yesterday afternoon before it started. I was pressed for time, so I used the modern, 4wd, diesel and left the "antiques" in the barn. The wheat and brassicas were looking a little dry, but should take off after this rain, just in time to keep some fat does around for archery season. I finally had some shop-time available to replace an oil-line and gauge on my old Ford 8N tractor. I had been running it for a few weeks with a temporary plug installed, but I am much more comfortable running it while I can keep an eye on the oil pressure. This morning my wife and I also got to watch our daughter cheer part of her first football game. Thankfully, they let them go home before halftime and before they got soaked thru too bad. We were comfortable watching under the big golf umbrella we had won at a raffle earlier this year. I also had time to do an on-line re-registration on my Professional Engineering license with NY state. It is supposed to rain again tomorrow morning while we are at church and Sunday school. We will probably even make it out to the nursing home and visit our Aunt tomorrow. I can't wait to show her some pictures of us using our deceased uncle's old boat oars up at my inlaw's camp this past holiday weekend. His old rowboat was already sold when I made it to the estate sale, but I promised her there that I would try and put them oars to good use and think him every time I used them. They actually worked so well on my father in-law's 14 ft aluminum rowboat, that it did not bother me much at all when his motor would not operate properly. It is amazing how much more wildlife you see out on and around the lake at sunrise without the noisy outboard. The beavers and turkeys were especially cool.

I have a big, old refrigerator out in the garage. All the shelves are removed. When it is too warm for the standard "in garage hanging", I skin the deer right away and hang the rear quarters and front from hooks on the top in that old fridge. Any red meat should be aged prior to processing as that allows the rigermortise to break down leading to more tender meat on the table. Improper aging is probably the biggest reason some folks develop no fondness for venison. The older the deer, the longer the ageing, and ideally it should be aged between 33 and 45 degrees F. For a six month old deer you can get away without aging. A 1.5 year should be about a week. I aged a 4.5 year buck last year for 2 weeks and it's steaks and chops are nearly as tender as a 6 month I cut up after a couple days. We are eating that old one right now in fact (we always consume them in the order they were killed and he was second from last this past season.) The tenderloins should definitely be removed right away, and do not require aging. We ate (4) sets fresh ones last season after 4 days in the fridge, just to compare the texture of 6 month, 1-1/2 year, 2-1/2 year, and 4-1/2 year bucks, all fried in an iron pan with a little olive oil, on the stove top. The 6 month set melted in your mouth and were definitely better than those from the older bucks. There was very little difference in taste or texture in those from the different age class older bucks when cooked and handled identically however. Last season, the hanging temps in the garage were almost ideal from the middle of archery season until the end of ML. I cover all the windows out there with foam insulation to keep some of the heat out, and I leave the hide on the deer until the day prior to processing. That provides a little extra insulation and prevents the meat from drying out too much. If you got to cut one up right away when it is warm, I would at least cut out the tenderloins and backstraps and get them into the fridge for a few days anyhow. Run the rest thru a grinder, which will break up the rigermortise. The grind will not be as tender as it would be if you had aged the carcass properly, but if you use a fine enough screen on your grinder, it shouldn't be too bad. I know that there are many hunters who don't age venison and seem happy with it. The real test is when their wives, girlfriends, kids, or guests like it. I actually prefer it over beef and so does the rest of my family.

You are on the low road when you don't accept that He can and will do anything for those who accept Him. As far as the "petty stuff" like killing a deer, catching some fish, or even getting a little more "free" wine to drink, there are examples right in the Gospels of Him helping His friends with stuff like that. The good news is, it is never too late to get yourself onto the high road. God is on a different plane than man, and words like "instead" are not in His vocabulary. One of the biggest "fringe benefits" of being a Christian is accepting all the "free stuff" He blesses us with. Hunters and Fisherman are very well positioned for that. I know I don't deserve any of the hundred or so deer and many thousands of fish He has blessed me with over the years. He gets the better end of that deal as it is better to give than to receive. I often get a little taste of that when I catch enough fish to feed the neighbors or get enough venison to give some to friends. Of course all those "fringe benefits" are good, but nothing compared to the big prize that awaits - getting to spend forever up in heaven with Him and your friends & family who also believe. Sometimes I feel like I am in heaven already here in NY when the hunting and fishing is especially good, but I am sure it is nothing compared to what awaits in The "happy hunting ground".

I can't quit while I am ahead or I would loose the race. I will stay on the high road. You can keep up the name calling if you like. That is the first time I heard that last one, but it does have a cool ring to it. Have you got anything else?

It sounds like you want it to be more difficult to kill deer JJ. How does that show them respect? I was about 90% sure I could make the shot in question. Do you only shoot when you are 100% sure? That happened to be the last day I could hunt during archery season last fall, which played a big part in my willingness to take the 10% risk. Earlier in the season, I wouldn't take a shot with less than about 95% certainty. Ironically, of the 100 or so deer I have killed over the last 30 some years, I was only 100% sure of one of the shots. My slug-gun misfired on that one and the big doe got away. Like always, God had the final say, not myself. Maybe she will produce a big buck for me one day, hopefully this season. Good luck to you hunting this fall. Consider some of that special reading material I suggested when it gets a little slow up there in the stand. I cant think of many pursuits that put us in better position to reap God's blessings than hunting and fishing. My standing with him must still be ok based on limit catches of smallmouth bass every day over this past holiday weekend (20 minutes Sat, 2 hours Sun, 1 hour Mon). It was even sweeter watching my daughter land a big one off the dock one evening. On the way home from work today, I asked Him to let me kill a buck this fall that would be a new NY state record. It is about time for someone to knock Roosevelt Lucky off that pedestal. If you are going to ask for something, and The Lord has shown a history of delivering, why not make it big?.

Are you guy's against full inclusion? If so, please explain why.

The rest is big, so is the telescopic sight and so is not needing to draw or hold while drawn. All that stuff adds up to an advantage for the crossbow. You can prove that to yourself relatively cheap and easy by getting a $35 Crossman, 760 bb-gun with a scope on it and a set of 25 pound weights. Take 10 shots from a good rest, using the scope, and measure the diameter of the group. Next, remove the scope, Stand up and take the next 10 shots offhand using the open sights. Prior to each of the offhand shots, curl one 25 lb weight with your right arm while lifting the other straight up with your left (reverse if you are left handed). Hold them in position about 1 minute after each rep. Next, measure the size of the two 10-shot groups. You will get a smaller number for the rested/scoped group. If you get 1" for that and 5" for the offhand group, that's a 5:1 advantage for the crossbow on "fixed" targets. On "live" targets, the advantage is further multiplied by eliminating the need to draw with the "target" in close. On deer or groups of deer, you can usually get away with the slow motion required to position a gun or crossbow, but not a fast motion required to draw a bow. For a single deer, no big advantage to the crossbow, since you can usually wait for that single set of eyes to get behind a tree prior to making the draw. That gets a lot tougher with does however as they are usually in groups, especially during archery season. That is where the additional 2x multiplier comes in for the crossbow. The math is easy: 5 x 2 = 10. Your results may differ, but that's about where I got mine. I used my compound and my crossbow for the 30 yard test part however, so I didn't need the weights. If you do get that bb gun, you can even use it for most of your marksmanship work for crossbow hunting. It will save you lots of money on bolts and wear and tear on equipment. Both are subsonic and have similar trajectories. With a multi-pump model like the 760, you can almost match the trajectories exactly, even tuning it for different speed crossbows and bolt weights. You can even strap a little weight to the front of the bb-gun for greater realism, especially if "offhand" shots are expected with your crossbow. From a rest, I don't notice much difference between my un-weighted bb-gun and 6 pound crossbow. Good luck hunting this fall.

Everyone is different, that's what keeps life interesting. Personally, I want to use the most effective weapon, at reasonable cost, for killing deer in any season. There is a huge advantage in the "silence" of a bow or crossbow, but to say they are comparable in performance on deer is ludicrous. I would estimate that a modern crossbow has a 10X advantage over a conventional compound bow, especially on does. I really cant see what anyone has to gain by pretending they are about equal in performance. The truth will set you free. Some folks are still in the dark ages about how far the crossbows have came recently. Just last week I saw someone mention lugging around a 10-12 pound crossbow. Mine weighs a shade over 6 pounds and handles offhand almost as well as my Ruger 10/22 carbine rifle. Some folks are into challenging themselves and even go for longbows and recurves. They remind me of the guy a few months ago on here who owned a .308, but wanted to try his .22/250 on deer. I support their right to use those weapons if they want, even though I think it shows a lack of respect for the deer. Heck, I even used a 1-1/4" lock-blade pen-knife to dispatch a "road-kill" doe one time, but it was the only weapon I had at the time, when she suddenly came back to life. They deserve to be killed as efficiently as possible in my humble opinion. I also don't practice "catch and release" fishing for the same reason. I see that as the senseless maiming of a fine food source. I stop fishing after catching my limit of good eating-sized fish. I do support the right of others to do it however and I don't expect them to have the same standards as myself.