wolc123

I have fished that lake usually once or twice a year, over the last 40 years or so. It has been a while since I got any smallmouth there, but I do remember one lunker long ago that I took by accident and released while pike fishing in May. As far as game-fish, Northern pike are what that lake is most known for and that is almost certainly what your early big fish was. 30-40 inchers are relatively common there. I am not much of a pan-fisherman but I know that lake is also popular for those. I hear they did very well opening day this year with a bass tournament held out of the State launch on the South end. We went out the next day and didn't do so hot with just a few short largemouth. I always used to head down there on the opening couple weeks of pike season in May. We have taken many limit catches of those there over the years, mostly on Bucktail jigs/minnows and/or live shiners below a bobber. My own largest was 36" about 10 years ago. My wife has pretty much put a stop to my pike fishing now, since my Brother in Law choked on a y-bone a few years ago up in Alex bay and had to go to the hospital to have it removed. I did keep a 36" pictured above (may resemble the "one that got away" on you on Silver) up at Alex bay on the St Lawrence this summer because it had an injury on its side and I was interested to see what it had in its belly. It looked quite fat compared to a typical Northern. Turns out there was a recently swallowed 10" long smallmouth bass in there. The neighbor had also been after me to keep some for him because he loves eating them and he was thrilled to get them big fillets. My favorite spots on Silver Lake for pike in May is the shallow North and South ends on the weedline. Near the North East corner, on the drop-off near the water treatment plant, has also been productive for pike, and that is where I caught the big smallmouth years ago. We have taken a few walleye on that lake over the years while pike fishing, most of respectable size in the 5-7 lb range. I cant remember ever getting a limit of largemouth there but catches of 2-3, working mostly along the shoreline docks are typical during the summer months. Speaking of largemouth, we hammered them good today down on Finley lake in the far SW corner of the state. They were all over a Jig&pig thrown along the shoreline and boat docks. I just finished vacuum sealing a few packs and we are having some for dinner tomorrow. I know most folks prefer walleye or perch on the table but bass are my favorite. Unlike those "dryer" fish, which I do agree are better fried, bass fillets have just enough oil in them to keep moist when grilling or baking. As long as you keep them alive and fresh until you get the meat off them, they taste great too, and are not the least bit "fishy". They do get a bad rap when folks let the die on a stringer in warm water and still expect a good meal later. Our livewell got a good workout today, that's for sure.

I use a Ruger M77 bolt-action in 30/06, laminated wood stock with 3-9 Redfield Low-Profile/Widefield scope in rifle zones, with Federal classic 150 gr. ammo. That gun has not failed me yet. My longest kill with it was last fall's Adirondack 8-point at about 325 yards (based on "Google maps"). I had planned on getting the exact range this past Memorial day weekend with a GPS, but the bugs were too bad in the woods. I don't know how you spring turkey hunters can handle that. It sure was a lot nicer out on the lake fishing. A Marlin M512 bolt-action rifled shotgun, with walnut stock, Bushnell 4X scope and 2-3/4" Hornady SST's works ok for me in shotgun zones. It is not a real pretty or expensive gun but it usually gets the job done. My longest kill with it was a doe at 163 yards a few years back. This only time it let me down was when it failed to fire on a 20 yard doe because the firing pin froze up in extreme cold weather. I have since cleaned it thoroughly and lubed it and it hasn't failed me since. Seven years later, that still bothers me because we had to buy some beef that year. I usually tote my granddad's old smooth-bore "deerslayer" 16 ga, Ithaca 37 (the foster slugs themselves are "rifled" anyhow), and stick to spots where only under 75 yard shots are expected, when it gets real cold now days in the shotgun zones. Once, I even dropped it out of my stand into a ditch full of water, just giving it a basic, quick cleaning and lube after, and it has still cycled and fired every time no matter how cold it gets. That old pump-gun is another that has never failed to deliver for me on deer. I sure can't say that about partridge however, as I think I missed at least the first 10 that I shot at with the modified barrel on it. Anybody need a 16 ga, mod 37, Ithaca modified barrel? I will certainly never part with the gun itself or the "deerslayer" cylinder bore barrel. My Ruger 30/06 took my largest-bodied buck last fall, but this old shotgun took my first buck, and a few with larger racks. For ML, I use a T/C Omega 50 cal rifle with laminated wood stock and 2-7X Redfield Low-Profile/Widefield scope. My favorite hunt with that one was an Adirondack doe, and my first deer up there in those beautiful mountains. I will never forget what she looked like as she stared me down after taking the 240 gr sabot thru both lungs, with her group of 6 other antlerless deer standing behind her. The year prior, I had seen a group of deer feeding on the adjacent ridge, but it was 300 yards away, more than double the gun's effective range. That year I was right on that oak-ridge waiting for them, and she got the surprise of her life. It was such a remote area that it is possible she had never seen a hunter before. It was easy to imagine how it must have been back before there were so many in the woods. She stood there for about a minute, 30 yards away, until her legs began to wobble and she tumbled down a steep ravine. Fortunately, she landed right on the lane to the cabin that my father in law had rented for the weekend, making for an easy recovery. I did take a little heat from my sister in law when she jogged by the gut pile later that morning. It was gone completely the next day however as the buzzards could spot it easy there.

First off, congrats on the Raptor purchase, that is what I would go with today if they had given us the rest of archery season. That extra 30 fps would likely give you a pass thru at 60 yards. I know from my limited (1 shot) experience that 300 fps don't quite get it done at that range. As far as the weight thing goes, a heavier arrow flies slower than a lighter arrow launched from the same weapon. At slower velocity, the wind resistance force exerted against the arrow is lower. That is not a big deal with field points but is with fixed blade broadheads. This is why we probably will not see anyone posting footage of 100 yard or longer groups with that type of tip. I am sorry if I incorrectly assumed that the 200 yard bow was shooting a heavier arrow than the 100 yard crossbow shown in the two attached videos. I am not above making mistakes. I only know one guy who is, who I have mentioned previously in multiple posts. If you got a problem with that fella you should know that you are messing with fire. The kind that burns forever but does not consume. I hope you do well this fall with the Raptor, and on the bigger journey you on. Its never too late to get on the right track.

Arrow/bolt Weight is not a primary concern of mine. What I am still looking to see is what kind of group that x-bow can hold with fixed-blade broadheads or even mechanicals at long range. I also agree that many NYr's are clueless when it comes to what an x-bow can do, in hunting situations at longer range. Heck my 59 yard heart shot on a Whitetail buck last fall was a "chip-shot" compared to some of them shots we see on antelope and such out West. I do give full credit for that shot placement to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as it was 19 yards beyond where I had practiced (I guessed the range at 50). Had the arrow struck high-lung where I aimed, it would likely have been a single-lung hit and at best a very difficult tracking job rather than the quick, just out of sight recovery which occurred. The biggest mistake I see other hunters making these days is not giving credit where credit is due when it comes to their hunting success or lack thereof. Far too many blame bad equipment, not enough practice, other hunters, posted property, etc. The bottom line is the man upstairs determines where all deer end up and if you don't keep things right with him you got nothing. If and when NY allows full inclusion in archery season I will likely upgrade from the $250, 300 fps x-bow I used last season. Based on my shot last season, which only penetrated 8" into the buck (fortunately all the way thru the heart), I will limit future shots with that x-bow to 50 yards max. Showing me what kind of accuracy and penetration can be achieved at longer ranges would go a long way towards helping me decide what x-bow to purchase. I would pull the trigger on something that would cost less than $400, print a 4" group at 70 yards with broadheads, and provide pass-thru penetration.

Didn't I see a living breathing deer in that 100 yard x-bow video? The resistance from a that very small minority of conventional bowhunters is nothing but pure elitist selfishness. They don't want to share "their" deer with folks who lack the time or physical ability to become proficient with a regular bow.

It is a simple physics thing about more planning with a faster arrow. As velocity increases, so does the force of wind resistance. That is why your car burns more gas at high speed. The guy who made the 200 yard shot on the Coke bottle was using a vertical bow, fixed blade broadhead, and a long, heavy arrow, which had to be launched at a much slower velocity than the short crossbow bolts in the other video. That would reduce the planning effect. At least I don't see anything intentionally misleading in that last video, so I cant call "shinannigans" on it like I can on the x-bow video. What we don't know is what kind of group that fella could hold with fixed blade broadheads at 200 yards. We also don't know what the arrow penetration would be at that range, but the heavier arrow weight would work to his advantage there also. I did notice that the wind velocity was near zero on that 200 yard bow shot, based on the lack of motion in the grass. I think I could probably pop that coke bottle with my old compound in less than 100 shots on a calm day like that. The arrow has to land somewhere right? The odds of it hitting the location you intend are better than any other spot, so with enough arrows, almost anyone should be able to do it.

What is "dumber and dumber yet" is to post videos of 100 yard groups using field points (clearly evident by the prints on the target) and show fixed broadheads in the opening frame, and again near the beginning of the video footage. I don't believe he could hold anywhere near that group with those broadheads at that range. If that ain't misleading I don't know what is. A real good mechanical broadhead, from a slower x-bow might hold a 2 foot group or so at that range. With them fixed blades at that range, from that fast of a crossbow, he would be lucky to hold a 5 foot group. The faster the x-bow, the more they will plane off target. Sorry to rain on your parade but if you post BS like this on a public forum you better be ready to take some heat.

Does that mean he is not going to show us what it can do with broadheads at 100 yards? I call false advertising.

2 bucks total is the legal limit here. You can fill your gun season buck tag during the late ML or archery season, but you cant use your gun buck tag during the early archery season. If you buy an archery license and a ML license, you get a other tag, but it can only be used on antlerless deer. That allows you to kill a total of three deer in any zone but only two can have antlers. In some zones, including 9F where I live and do most of my hunting, up to (4) additional DMP's can be purchased, (2) before October 1 and (2) after Nov 1 in many zones if any tags remain. DMP's are also only good for antlerless deer. Things are pretty good for the meat hunters like myself now here in NY as (7) deer would fill just about any freezer.

I see it has no trouble with the field points, but I would like to see him try that with those fixed-blade broadheads. That makes it a good setup for target shooting but hunting is still a 50 (or in my case 60 with a "Jesus Bolt") yard game. Why the heck did he show the broadheads in the opening frame, then shoot the fieldpoints? Show me what it can do with them broadheads. I ain't all that into target shooting, but I got to eat.

Wow, hard to believe someone would actually try it. That is the only meat I know of that a crow won't even touch. I wonder what those fellas blood alcohol content was as they were forcing it down? It don't look like they were enjoying it very much.

Coyote meat must be pretty bad tasting. Those are about the only carcasses nothing touches at my place, not even the crows. I just throw them out on a field in the fall and winter after removing the hides and plow them under in the spring, usually the meat is just de-hydrated by then, but still covering the bones. I would assume that most of the lead gets into the ground without passing thru another "carrier". By contrast, deer, raccoon, squirrel, muskrat, rabbit, goose, duck, and woodchuck carcasses deposited on the same field are usually picked clean to the bone, often in just a day or two. Crows and coyotes picking at those carcasses provide some excellent long-range target practice.

Out in Western NY, I had planned on doing some field work today, but we got socked with a ton of rain last night. A neighbor kid who just graduated from high school this year suggested a fishing trip, so I took him up on it since it was too wet to do much anything else. He ended up getting a few nice smallies (mmm... fresh fish tacos for dinner tonight), and his first ever Niagara river musky. I caught just one monster of a sheephead myself, but the excitement on his face reeling in that big lunge really made the trip worthwhile. We ended up being very thankful for that rain that kept us off the fields today.

I am about as pure of a meat-hunter as you could be and I have struggled with that one almost every year. Fortunately, most of the times I have passed smaller bucks, I was rewarded with larger ones. Not all times however, and it does suck to end the season to be lacking meat and holding a tag. As a pure meat hunter, I am talking about body size not racks which no longer matter much to me. Two years ago I watched a small-bodied fork-horn walk cluelessly right under my stand on opening week of gun season. I brought up my gun and watched him walk away, never pulling the trigger. The thought of missing a crack at a big boy the following weekend for maybe 50 pounds of meat held me back. Big boy never showed that year however and that little yellow tag did not provide much nourishment for my family. Ironically, an almost identical buck showed up last gun season, in almost the same place, but not quite as easy of shot. Had it been, I doubt I would have held off given what occurred the previous season. Last season "Big Boy" did show up the following weekend however. I was rewarded with the heaviest buck I had ever harvested at well over 200 pounds field dressed. We still have some meat left from that one as I type. A similar thing happened to me at the end of early archery season last year. I fell asleep in my blind due to staying out partying too long the night prior. I was awakened by the footsteps of a tiny-bodied 4-point that had snuck in on me. I tried to lift my bow real slow but he caught a glimpse and flushed before I could get a shot. A heavier 6-point showed up 3 days later and took an arrow thru the heart for me. Sometimes "you snooze, you win" I guess. My harvest criteria changes based on the date and the remaining space in the freezer. On opening day or with a full freezer a 1-1/2 year buck has pretty good odds of getting a pass from me. He better look out later in the seasons (archery & gun) however. especially if our food supply is not good. For me food comes first and you cant eat antlers or tags.

As a pure meat hunter, I look at the body more than the rack. With deer meat, I am concerned with both quantity and quality. A 2.5 year old buck offers the best combination so they are number one on my hit list. Generally there is a huge jump in body size between 6 month and 1-1/2 years, and another huge jump between 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 years. Each of those years the meat quantity doubles or so. The "quality" of the meat is best at 6 months, drops significantly at 1-1/2, but does not drop off a lot more yet at 2-1/2. As a buck gets older than that the quantity of meat does not increase enough to make up for the loss in quality. They put on a few pounds a year up to 4-1/2, then probably lose a little. The 4-1/2 year old buck I took with my rifle last year was the oldest I ever killed. We just started eating the bulk of that one and I was surprised how good it is. The "bumper crop" of acorns we had last year, a quick, clean kill, two weeks of aging prior to cutting up at near ideal temps, and vacuum sealing surely helped a lot with that. My 1-1/2 and a 2-1/2 (gift from a friend) year old archery season bucks that we polished off earlier were still a bit tastier however, and did not require as long of "aging" to get tender (1 week and 10 days were good). The best place for me to put my buck tags is on 2-1/2 year old bucks and if given a choice between one with a larger rack or larger body, I would shoot the larger body every time. We always eat the deer in the order they are killed and are saving the best for last this year. That will be a little button buck road kill that a "hit and run" driver left at the end of our driveway last winter. I know that one will be the best because I pan fried all the "fresh" tenderloins, 4 days after the kills in order to do a true "apples" to "apples" comparison of 1/2, 1-1/2, 2-1/2, and 4-1/2 year old bucks. Last season was the first that I had an opportunity to conduct that test. As a pure meat hunter, why don't I just shoot does? #1, ever hear the phrase "don't shoot the "golden goose". #2, I can butcher bucks faster because there is always less fat to trim away. #3, Doe meat looses quality with age just like buck meat does, but the antlers make it a lot easier for me to determine age on the hoof. #4, the antlers make good grab handles for dragging the carcasses out of the bush, and a nice spot to tie the carcass tags. #5, the antlers make good wall decorations and reminders of successful hunts. Since we only get (2) buck tags in NY, and my growing family uses 4-5 "average" sized deer per year for food, most years we have to suffer thru some doe meat. Last season was the first exception that I can recall. We still like "doe meat" better than beef, and I don't mind killing a few "golden gooses" especially in the areas I hunt which have deer populations significantly above optimum.

I have always aimed to be in the stand about 1/2 hour before sunrise on opening day of gun, the first Saturday, and Thanksgiving (the "big 3" in our area). Other days and archery & ML seasons, I usually wait until legal light prior to walking in. I have spent most of the last 30 opening days of gun season on our farm in the southern zone, which has been in the family since just after the Civil war. I have killed about 15 deer on those days and more than half were from 1 to 10 minutes after legal shooting light and shot from a stand. I always check the times in the paper and do not load my gun prior to sunrise and I also unload it prior to sunset. I will never forget my first and fastest (the 1 minute buck). That was also the shortest season I ever had. It was my third year hunting and I was just 19 years old. I chewed tobacco back then and I could see in the moonlight that the brown spot I was trying to spit on in the snow below my stand was getting larger as the seconds ticked away. With about 2 minutes to go, I heard what sounded like clumsy person struggling thru the brush next to me, on the neighbors land. I kept looking back and forth between my watch and the spot the noise was coming from as I held a 16 ga slug in my right hand. Suddenly a feisty looking buck with a couple busted off tines, and 7 remaining points, stepped out of the brush right below my stand. I had seen this same buck several times during archery season but never in range. He buried his nose in the tobacco spot as his last minute ticked away. I prayed that the slug would find its way into the chamber, as I shoved it in and cycled the pump on my granddad's old bottom-loading, Ithaca model 37. Then I centered the crosshairs of the old 1.5X Weaver scope on the top of his shoulder and was relieved to hear the bang and feel the heavy recoil of the "featherweight" gun against my shoulder. The buck went into a spastic "break dance" and flopped around at the base of my tree for several minutes before laying still. I gutted him quick, hung him in the garage and made it to college in time to take an exam (not sure how I did on that one, but I did pass the class). Our neighbors don't have any clear lanes on their land so they usually follow our adjacent lane on their way into the woods, just after first light. Most of the rest of my opening morning kills were pushed to me by them at this time. I am glad some folks wait until daylight on the "big-days", as we would go hungry some years otherwise. My first buck came in the first minute of an opening day and my largest-racked, symmetric, "typical" came on the last just a few years ago. I never would have taken that one had I not climbed down from my stand 3 minutes prior to legal sunset. The only reason I did that was because the Bible I was reading at the time slipped mysteriously from my hands, falling to the forest floor below. I had filled a doe tag in the morning (thank you next door neighbor) and a freind had given me another so I had no real need to hunt until the last minute. Our meat supply was good. As soon as I got to the ground with the same loaded 16 ga Ithaca in my right hand (sorry about the "safety" issue but it paid off this time), and reaching for the Bible with my left, a flock of turkeys landed almost on top of me. As is often the case around here, they were accompanied by a deer. The turkeys like to hang with the deer to capitalize on their good sense of smell, and the deer appreciate the turkey's superior eyesight. Combined, they have a nearly impregnable defense against a hunter clad in blaze-orange. This wise old buck's line of turkeys was breeched now however, and his big rack and head popped out from behind a bush just 10 yards away. I brought up the gun, centered the older, 1.5X Weaver scope on his neck and put him down in his tracks, with just a few seconds of legal light remaining. As I have just explained here, I have pushed it close to the limit at least twice, but in thirty years, I have never been tempted by a shot prior to or after legal sunrise or sunset. I also have no respect for those who call them selves hunters yet think nothing of shooting way before or after the legal times. They are "poachers" in my book and there certainly is no shortage of them in these parts based on the shots I hear in the dark.

I left my slug-gun lay at the base of a tree well before sunrise one opening day of deer season long ago. I was also carrying a portable stand with a shoulder sling and after I had stopped to look at my compass with a flashlight, I thought that was my gun as I walked off a few hundred yards. Somehow I managed to walk right back to that tree in the darkness when I realized my mistake. I was on the giving and receiving end of two other mishaps. During a rifle-team match in high school, as I closed the bolt of my hair-triggered .22, it discharged. The muzzle was pointed upward, at about a 45 degree angle, and the bullet struck the concrete ceiling. Chips flew back, a few striking me. The guy next to me clutched his chest, yelled "I'm hit", and fell forward. He was always somewhat of a jokester. The chips or shrapnel did not penetrate his canvas shooting jacket however and we were able to continue the match after making sure we were ok. After that, I always made sure my rifle was pointed down range at the target when I closed the bolt, but I never had another misfire. The other incident occurred when I got down from my tree stand a pursued a doe which was out of range and had just walked of my granddad's farm, thru a hedgerow and onto a long hayfield of our neighbor's. When I stepped onto that field, I saw the doe out in the middle. Then I felt a slap on the side of my face, immediately followed by a gunshot. I hit the dirt and soon dirt started to fly against my face as 4 more slugs hit close by. Even though I was wearing blaze orange, a hunter in the opposite hedgerow had unloaded his semi auto at the doe, not touching it but nearly taking me out. If you ever had a bullet pass less than an inch from your ear, it is a feeling and sound that you will never forget. It certainly changed the way I hunt. I stick to our own land, and up a tree or in a good blind most of the time now.

I ran into a couple many years ago on a hut out west. A friend and I took our truck to a trail-head on the outskirts of a popular Colorado ski town. The trail went about 10 miles, along a creek that flowed down from a tall mountain. It was popular with joggers and hikers (this town is really crazy about fitness), and hunters are rare. We were on the trail well before sunrise and my friend had taken a mule deer the day prior. On this day, he just walked up a short distance to try for an elk, giving me directions to his spot further up where the mullies seemed to be migrating thru. I went about 5 miles up the trail, then headed off a mile or so up a mountain side, to his "hot-spot". A short while after I found a nice overlook, which offered a good shot to the migration path, a group of 5-6 antlerless deer came by. Exactly 1 hour later, a second, similar group passed. I was ready an hour later when a third group passed, and this one included a decent buck. I killed him up there with my 30/06. My friend and another successful hunter had just left their deer, then came back and got some helpers before dragging them out. I was young and stupid and it was still fairly early in the day so I thought I could just take it slow and drag it out myself. It was a little rough getting it down to the trail (those things are a bit heftier than your average whitetail), and I started a small avalanche when the rear end caught between a couple boulders and got a whole bunch of them rolling downhill. Other than that, going downhill wasn't all that bad, but uphill was tough. Thankfully I had a canteen and water purification tablets and must have drank 5 gallons from the creek on the way out. By early afternoon it was getting quite warm and I packed the carcass with snow that I found on the shady side of a mountain, up high. I had a sling-shot in my jacket pocket but it was rolled up in my backpack due to the high temperature. Down on the trail, about halfway out, two large German shepherds came at me from around a bend. They were barking and drooling and very intent on the carcass. I backed away and tried to dig my slingshot out of my pack. Before I could lay down some fire, they ripped open the bag containing the heart and liver and wolfed them down. As I was still struggling to get the sling shot, two young women in bright jogging attire trotted up and called off their dogs. I must have been quite a sight, stripped to the waist and covered with sweat and blood. they looked at the deer and said: "That's gross". I replied: "Bambi was hurt real bad and I was trying to get him to the vet. He ain't got a chance now that your dogs ate his heart". They just continued on their way. Before I got back to the truck, just before sunset, they came by again without saying a word. When my buddy arrived shortly thereafter, he couldn't believe it when he saw the deer laying next to the truck. He asked me "what did you have an adrenalin rush or something?" He did get a kick out of the jogger story. All that work wasn't worth the effort as the meat was no where near as tasty as that from our NY whitetails. I probably should have just let the dogs have some more of it.

The last few years in the NZ, the weather has been a little too warm during the one week ML season for much good action. Since I have a 4.5 hour drive to the in-laws camp up there, I wouldn't want to deal with the doe-meat anyhow due to the temperature issue and keeping the meat in good condition. I have taken doe up there with the ML some years ago when we had cooler weather. I am keeping my fingers crossed for cool weather this fall when we go up for a 4 day trip covering 2 days of x-bow and 2 days of ML. I prefer shooting bucks because they are easier and faster for me to butcher, because of less fat to trim, but I wouldn't mind using both of my tags on nice fat NZ does this fall. There is way to many of them "flatheads" around the camp with at least 20 per antlered buck on trail cams. If we are lucky, we may even bring home (3) as my father in law is going to break out his ML this year. He wont sit thru the archery course to get the second tag however so that is the best we could do.

We consume 4-5 average size deer per season and have not bought beef in more than 15 years as a result. Fortunately our whole family prefers venison over beef. Since I do all the work, and bucks are easier to butcher due to less fat to trim, I prefer them over does. The perfect deer for me in terms of quantity and quality is a 2.5 year old buck. We were blessed to have a friend give us one of them last season, and to have a hit-and run driver knock the wind out of a button buck at the end of our driveway last winter. I finished that one off with my knife, plus killed a 1.5 year buck with my crossbow and a 4.5+ year buck with my rifle. With a legal bag limit of 2 bucks, that was the first year ever that all our venison came from bucks. The 2.5 and 4.5 bucks were steer-like monsters, as far as body size, so our overall meat quantity also was the highest ever last year. That was fortunate because my kids are getting bigger appetites as they get older. Hopefully they can help me with the freezer filling task in the next few years. On a normal season, most of our venison comes from antlerless deer due to the more liberal bag limit (4) in our home zone. There have been a few years when I limited on those but I average about (2) antlerless deer per season, 25% of which have been button bucks. Whenever a group is in range, I target the largest first as long as I have tags and freezer space. With a repeating shotgun or rifle, If I see a doe with one or two fawns, I will anchor the doe first with a shoulder blade shot, then proceed to the fawns in order of body size with center-lung shots. I like to send them to "deer heaven" (our families food supply) together if I am able. I stopped hunting with a vertical bow last season when they made crossbows legal and am 1/1 on bucks with that far more effective deer-killing weapon (I would rate it as at least 10X more effective in my hands). It would be nice if this poll had a Crossbow/Shotgun/Rifle/ML category as I have used all but the crossbow to kill does and will take every opportunity I am presented with to kill one if there is still room in the freezer and I have tags. The only "passes" I hand out are to small 1.5 year bucks and that may stop this year during x-bow and gun seasons now that they are no longer allowing bucks to be harvested during ML season in our home zone. All of the areas I hunt in the Southern and Northern zones have above optimum deer populations and could stand a higher doe harvest even after the tough winter we had last season.

A bit verbose maybe, but except for one big omission, I thought it was a good article. I especially liked the emphasis on the importance of the meat. We will never convince anti-hunters to go along with the whole "trophy-hunting" deal. There is way too much emphasis on killing only old, mature animals or those with massive headgear in today's hunting literature. What it lacked was some reference to God's creation and how he created the animals, birds, fish, and plants, for man to consume. I know that opens a can of worms with many but it is really the most important aspect of the whole deal. Forever hangs in the balance, not just the brief time we all get to spend here on earth.

Maybe for a heavy draw, high speed model but the noise of any crossbow is certainly a lot closer to a vertical bow than it is to a gun. A lot also depends on the model. The little entry-level one that I bought last year is no louder than my 65% let-off high-velocity compound. Granted, it is only 300 fps and 135 lb draw but it should get the job done inside 50 yards. At 59 yards last season the penetration was marginal, just getting thru the heart, so 50 yards will be my limit with it going forward. I have no doubt that if I had those first 2 weeks this fall I could kill some does easily inside of 50 yards. The trouble is, they go nocturnal soon after they know they are being hunted and the only "easy pickings" when x-bow finally opens now, for the last 2 weeks, is 1-1/2 year, rut-crazed bucks. As a pure meat-hunter, 2-1/2 year old bucks are number one on my target list. These new regulations should definitely increase my odds a bit in getting one of those with my crossbow since they are now off-limits to the early bow-hunters. Them, and older bucks are also usually smart enough to go nocturnal soon after they pick up the scent of bow-hunters. I can definitely see these new regs reduce the early bow-season pressure as most bow-hunters I know care only about killing bucks. Taking away that pressure should make for a more productive gun season opener. It has been a little lame at home the last few years do to increased bow-hunting activity. Overall, for me personally I see more good than bad to these new regulations, with my only dislike being the loss of the ability to kill a buck in the ML season. I will just have to make sure my buck tags are filled prior even if it means killing a 1-1/2 year 3" unicorn buck.

Most agree that the vertical bow is about the least effective weapon for killing does. This is mostly because of limited range and difficulty in "making the draw" with a group of deer in close. Does are in such great numbers in these areas that it is rare to see them alone. The bow does have one advantage over a gun, it's silent report. In those areas which are infested with deer and the state has resorted to this new measure, the does go nocturnal, almost at the sound of the first gunshot. Allowing ML's or guns for does early is not the answer, they are too loud and will put most of the does into a full nocturnal mode before adequate numbers can be harvested. The crossbow is the true solution, not needing to be drawn with groups in close yet nearly as quiet as a vertical bow.

The biggest divide I see is between the small minority of bow-hunters who are fighting desperately to keep the x-bow out of archery season, and the majority of hunters who would like to see full inclusion. I see full inclusion of crossbow as the best way to control the deer population in those areas that are now subject to the "doe-only" restriction for the first 2 weeks of archery and ML season. Killing does in these areas with a vertical bow is much easier said than done. The areas are infested with groups of antlerless deer and it is nearly impossible to draw a bow on one individual without alerting the group. Shooting lone bucks of any age is like taking candy from a baby in comparison. Those doe groups also become mostly nocturnal as soon as they detect some hunting pressure and certainly after they hear the first shot or two when gun season opens. The silent crossbow that does not have to be drawn quickly with the group in close is the ultimate answer for reducing the deer population in the areas that need it. Basically, the selfish effort of that minority of bowhunters to keep x-bows out of archery has blown up in their face and now no one can take bucks in these areas during those periods. The part of it that bothers me the most is the loss of the opportunity to take a buck during ML season.

I live and hunt in that area of Western NY which they are making "doe only" for the first couple weeks of archery. I like the change because I gave up those weeks of archery season anyhow, after seeing how much more effective the crossbow was. As a pure "meat-hunter, I slightly prefer to shoot bucks, as they are easier and quicker to butcher, with much less fat to trim, and taste the same or better than does. This will improve my odds of taking a buck after x-bow season opens by eliminating some time for the "early-bird" archery hunters to go after them. We are in serious need of herd reduction here, so I hope they are able to clean out some does early. Taking a doe around here with a vertical bow is a real challenge as they are almost always in groups and many sets of eyes must be fooled to draw with them in close. Those archers have an uphill climb. I cant see them getting the job done, and the state will likely be forced to open x-bow throughout and/or add a couple weeks of early ML if they really want to get the population under control in this area. The only part I am not thrilled about is making the ML season "doe-only". That will force me to be less selective on bucks when they are legal, during crossbow and gun seasons, so I don't end up with "tag-soup". Definitely more positives than negatives with the changes however and it is getting me excited about the fall. We are down to about one big buck left in the freezer now from last year, so it cant get here too fast. The smallmouth bass fishing has been productive however, and I will soon have a few weeks to augment the food supply even more with some squirrels and grouse.