wolc123

Over-aged (ie spoiled) is definitely worse than under-aged. It is a lot easier when you control the process yourself. If you have an old fridge to use when it gets too warm, it is hard to mess it up. I value my venison way to much to trust a "seasonal" processer with it, especially some of them that get a pile of carcasses 3 feet high on opening weekend of gun season. There is much to be gained by processing your own besides just the money you save. Seeing first-hand, where to put a bullet to damage the least amount of valuable meat is a big plus (It is hard to beat center-lung, broad-side). Seeing the actual location of the shoulder blade helps the archer avoid that piece of "armor plate". Full control over the ageing process is the biggest advantage. Sizing the packs just like you want them is nice also.

That Alexander steam show is great and we would be there right now without the rain. My first time was probably 40 years ago when my granddad brought me and my brother. My ancestors ran a threshing business in this area using a couple old Rumely Oil-pull tractors. I still have some of the old manuals for them and the threshers. Old tractors are cool and we still have a few. I still use granddad's old JD M at my folks place, and a Ford 8N, Allis Chalmers C, and Farmall A at our place for food plot work. Unfortunately, the Allis C is going to have to go soon, since the two old barns my great-great granddad built on our farm in 1883 are on their last leg, and the single pole-barn I plan to replace them won't fit so many tractors. Except for missing the show, I welcome that rain. I managed to get the last of my logs dragged out of the woods yesterday afternoon before it started. I was pressed for time, so I used the modern, 4wd, diesel and left the "antiques" in the barn. The wheat and brassicas were looking a little dry, but should take off after this rain, just in time to keep some fat does around for archery season. I finally had some shop-time available to replace an oil-line and gauge on my old Ford 8N tractor. I had been running it for a few weeks with a temporary plug installed, but I am much more comfortable running it while I can keep an eye on the oil pressure. This morning my wife and I also got to watch our daughter cheer part of her first football game. Thankfully, they let them go home before halftime and before they got soaked thru too bad. We were comfortable watching under the big golf umbrella we had won at a raffle earlier this year. I also had time to do an on-line re-registration on my Professional Engineering license with NY state. It is supposed to rain again tomorrow morning while we are at church and Sunday school. We will probably even make it out to the nursing home and visit our Aunt tomorrow. I can't wait to show her some pictures of us using our deceased uncle's old boat oars up at my inlaw's camp this past holiday weekend. His old rowboat was already sold when I made it to the estate sale, but I promised her there that I would try and put them oars to good use and think him every time I used them. They actually worked so well on my father in-law's 14 ft aluminum rowboat, that it did not bother me much at all when his motor would not operate properly. It is amazing how much more wildlife you see out on and around the lake at sunrise without the noisy outboard. The beavers and turkeys were especially cool.

I have a big, old refrigerator out in the garage. All the shelves are removed. When it is too warm for the standard "in garage hanging", I skin the deer right away and hang the rear quarters and front from hooks on the top in that old fridge. Any red meat should be aged prior to processing as that allows the rigermortise to break down leading to more tender meat on the table. Improper aging is probably the biggest reason some folks develop no fondness for venison. The older the deer, the longer the ageing, and ideally it should be aged between 33 and 45 degrees F. For a six month old deer you can get away without aging. A 1.5 year should be about a week. I aged a 4.5 year buck last year for 2 weeks and it's steaks and chops are nearly as tender as a 6 month I cut up after a couple days. We are eating that old one right now in fact (we always consume them in the order they were killed and he was second from last this past season.) The tenderloins should definitely be removed right away, and do not require aging. We ate (4) sets fresh ones last season after 4 days in the fridge, just to compare the texture of 6 month, 1-1/2 year, 2-1/2 year, and 4-1/2 year bucks, all fried in an iron pan with a little olive oil, on the stove top. The 6 month set melted in your mouth and were definitely better than those from the older bucks. There was very little difference in taste or texture in those from the different age class older bucks when cooked and handled identically however. Last season, the hanging temps in the garage were almost ideal from the middle of archery season until the end of ML. I cover all the windows out there with foam insulation to keep some of the heat out, and I leave the hide on the deer until the day prior to processing. That provides a little extra insulation and prevents the meat from drying out too much. If you got to cut one up right away when it is warm, I would at least cut out the tenderloins and backstraps and get them into the fridge for a few days anyhow. Run the rest thru a grinder, which will break up the rigermortise. The grind will not be as tender as it would be if you had aged the carcass properly, but if you use a fine enough screen on your grinder, it shouldn't be too bad. I know that there are many hunters who don't age venison and seem happy with it. The real test is when their wives, girlfriends, kids, or guests like it. I actually prefer it over beef and so does the rest of my family.

You are on the low road when you don't accept that He can and will do anything for those who accept Him. As far as the "petty stuff" like killing a deer, catching some fish, or even getting a little more "free" wine to drink, there are examples right in the Gospels of Him helping His friends with stuff like that. The good news is, it is never too late to get yourself onto the high road. God is on a different plane than man, and words like "instead" are not in His vocabulary. One of the biggest "fringe benefits" of being a Christian is accepting all the "free stuff" He blesses us with. Hunters and Fisherman are very well positioned for that. I know I don't deserve any of the hundred or so deer and many thousands of fish He has blessed me with over the years. He gets the better end of that deal as it is better to give than to receive. I often get a little taste of that when I catch enough fish to feed the neighbors or get enough venison to give some to friends. Of course all those "fringe benefits" are good, but nothing compared to the big prize that awaits - getting to spend forever up in heaven with Him and your friends & family who also believe. Sometimes I feel like I am in heaven already here in NY when the hunting and fishing is especially good, but I am sure it is nothing compared to what awaits in The "happy hunting ground".

I can't quit while I am ahead or I would loose the race. I will stay on the high road. You can keep up the name calling if you like. That is the first time I heard that last one, but it does have a cool ring to it. Have you got anything else?

It sounds like you want it to be more difficult to kill deer JJ. How does that show them respect? I was about 90% sure I could make the shot in question. Do you only shoot when you are 100% sure? That happened to be the last day I could hunt during archery season last fall, which played a big part in my willingness to take the 10% risk. Earlier in the season, I wouldn't take a shot with less than about 95% certainty. Ironically, of the 100 or so deer I have killed over the last 30 some years, I was only 100% sure of one of the shots. My slug-gun misfired on that one and the big doe got away. Like always, God had the final say, not myself. Maybe she will produce a big buck for me one day, hopefully this season. Good luck to you hunting this fall. Consider some of that special reading material I suggested when it gets a little slow up there in the stand. I cant think of many pursuits that put us in better position to reap God's blessings than hunting and fishing. My standing with him must still be ok based on limit catches of smallmouth bass every day over this past holiday weekend (20 minutes Sat, 2 hours Sun, 1 hour Mon). It was even sweeter watching my daughter land a big one off the dock one evening. On the way home from work today, I asked Him to let me kill a buck this fall that would be a new NY state record. It is about time for someone to knock Roosevelt Lucky off that pedestal. If you are going to ask for something, and The Lord has shown a history of delivering, why not make it big?.

Are you guy's against full inclusion? If so, please explain why.

The rest is big, so is the telescopic sight and so is not needing to draw or hold while drawn. All that stuff adds up to an advantage for the crossbow. You can prove that to yourself relatively cheap and easy by getting a $35 Crossman, 760 bb-gun with a scope on it and a set of 25 pound weights. Take 10 shots from a good rest, using the scope, and measure the diameter of the group. Next, remove the scope, Stand up and take the next 10 shots offhand using the open sights. Prior to each of the offhand shots, curl one 25 lb weight with your right arm while lifting the other straight up with your left (reverse if you are left handed). Hold them in position about 1 minute after each rep. Next, measure the size of the two 10-shot groups. You will get a smaller number for the rested/scoped group. If you get 1" for that and 5" for the offhand group, that's a 5:1 advantage for the crossbow on "fixed" targets. On "live" targets, the advantage is further multiplied by eliminating the need to draw with the "target" in close. On deer or groups of deer, you can usually get away with the slow motion required to position a gun or crossbow, but not a fast motion required to draw a bow. For a single deer, no big advantage to the crossbow, since you can usually wait for that single set of eyes to get behind a tree prior to making the draw. That gets a lot tougher with does however as they are usually in groups, especially during archery season. That is where the additional 2x multiplier comes in for the crossbow. The math is easy: 5 x 2 = 10. Your results may differ, but that's about where I got mine. I used my compound and my crossbow for the 30 yard test part however, so I didn't need the weights. If you do get that bb gun, you can even use it for most of your marksmanship work for crossbow hunting. It will save you lots of money on bolts and wear and tear on equipment. Both are subsonic and have similar trajectories. With a multi-pump model like the 760, you can almost match the trajectories exactly, even tuning it for different speed crossbows and bolt weights. You can even strap a little weight to the front of the bb-gun for greater realism, especially if "offhand" shots are expected with your crossbow. From a rest, I don't notice much difference between my un-weighted bb-gun and 6 pound crossbow. Good luck hunting this fall.

Everyone is different, that's what keeps life interesting. Personally, I want to use the most effective weapon, at reasonable cost, for killing deer in any season. There is a huge advantage in the "silence" of a bow or crossbow, but to say they are comparable in performance on deer is ludicrous. I would estimate that a modern crossbow has a 10X advantage over a conventional compound bow, especially on does. I really cant see what anyone has to gain by pretending they are about equal in performance. The truth will set you free. Some folks are still in the dark ages about how far the crossbows have came recently. Just last week I saw someone mention lugging around a 10-12 pound crossbow. Mine weighs a shade over 6 pounds and handles offhand almost as well as my Ruger 10/22 carbine rifle. Some folks are into challenging themselves and even go for longbows and recurves. They remind me of the guy a few months ago on here who owned a .308, but wanted to try his .22/250 on deer. I support their right to use those weapons if they want, even though I think it shows a lack of respect for the deer. Heck, I even used a 1-1/4" lock-blade pen-knife to dispatch a "road-kill" doe one time, but it was the only weapon I had at the time, when she suddenly came back to life. They deserve to be killed as efficiently as possible in my humble opinion. I also don't practice "catch and release" fishing for the same reason. I see that as the senseless maiming of a fine food source. I stop fishing after catching my limit of good eating-sized fish. I do support the right of others to do it however and I don't expect them to have the same standards as myself.

I am probably about as much of a pure meat-hunter as you can get. I live to kill and eat, whether it be deer, small game, birds, or fish. "Hardcore" is almost an understatement. I was just blessed with limits of smallmouth bass each day for this three-day weekend, taking 20 minutes the first day, 2 hours the second, and 1 hour today. I couldn't be more thankful to live in a state where one can easily provide all the protein his family needs, legally off the fat of the land. Fishing for the year is drawing to a close, the crossbow is sighted in and I am ready to start chasing deer when that season opens in the Northern zone next month. There was all kinds of sign up there this weekend and we saw lots of turkeys also. All those deer up there help me catch fish. They keep the trees trimmed below 5 feet, all the way around the lake so I don't snag up too many of the jigs I make from their tails.

How were the bugs? I rode my mountain bike around our place yesterday and even with spray on, the mosquitoes were horrific. I will definitely stick with fishing until the cold nocks them out. Were there any bugs on the squirrels themselves, like fleas, lice, ticks, etc? Rabbits are always bad like that until we get a few good frosts.

The Wed, Fri thing is a big advantage on pressured private land also. Most retired folks don't have the gumption to hunt very hard so pressure is always much heavier on the weekends when all us "working stiffs" are in the woods. I know the deer pattern me, at our place and at my folks farm. On the rare days during archery season, when I can get out mid-week, the deer action is always heavier. I would have never filled my buck tag last fall, had I not got a Wed morning off to find our farm "alive" with deer. That was the only day, bow or gun season, that I saw more than one deer here. That is with just one guy on 100 acres, so it must be worse on a lot of public land. I first sighted my gun-season buck last fall, when he was still on public land (the 6.5 million acre Adirondack park.) I felled him about 50 yards from the line on a good sized chunk of private land with controlled access. If you can find a place on public land, with difficult access, that is adjacent to an "off-limits" sanctuary-type area, your odds of scoring a big buck would go up a bit.

Even though only 5% of hunters take (2) bucks in a given year, that does not mean that this would not cause a significant increase in doe kills. The way it is now in NY, all of the hunters who take a buck early with their bow or ML, can still look forward to killing "Mr Big" later with their rifle if he shows. It is understandable then why they hold off shooting does, knowing he may be on the trail. Antlers are not necessary for human survival, but food is. Man can only go three weeks without it in fact. Since we got to eat, we will be forced to shoot does and/or be more selective of the buck we kill if limited to only one. Personally, I would like to be able to make the call myself if I shoot one or two bucks, but I have no doubt I would kill more does if I was limited to just one.

A crossbow is more effective at killing does for many reasons. The biggest one is that it does not need to be drawn with the deer in close, like a conventional bow. That is no big deal when killing lone bucks, where all one needs to do is wait for one set of eyes to get behind a tree before drawing the bow. It is a lot more difficult making the draw with multiple sets of eyes in close. It is very rare, in these infested zones which are under the new, no-bucks for two weeks regs, to find does moving around by themselves. A sharp reduction in bow-hunting pressure during those two weeks, as looks to be the consensus of those who have posted here anyhow, will mean a more favorable environment for killing does when the crossbow gets legal in the last two weeks. Anyone with 5 or so years of bow-hunting experience realizes how hunting pressure makes deer go elsewhere. It sounds like some of the newbies have not connected the dots there yet, but they will learn soon enough. Other reasons for the crossbow's greater effectiveness relate to the greater accuracy it typically achieves with far less practice time. I am not saying regular bows are not effective at killing deer. I have cleanly harvested more bucks than I can remember with 3 of them back when I was younger. I even managed to get a nice doe one time with one. I never struggled with the bucks with the bow, until family responsibilities started cutting into my practice time. I will admit that the last buck I killed with my bow about 5 years ago, took a little of that special help that many call luck, but that I know comes from elsewhere. The hefty young 5-point must have caught a glimpse of my draw as he came thru the hedgerow my stand was on. He paused about 20 yards out, quartering away, offering what looked like a perfect shot. When I released my arrow, he reared back and down, taking the mechanical broad-head right thru the jugular. I heard him flop down just out of sight. That errant, but successful shot convinced me to lay down that bow and stick to my guns. My next shot at a deer during archery season was the 6-point last fall that took the crossbow bolt thru the heart. Again, it was certainly not due to my own skill that he ended up in the freezer, but not "luck" either. I underestimated the range by about 10 yards. Big "unethical" mistake maybe but he sure tasted good. Oddly enough, the big, old rifle season buck I took later up in the Adirondacks is even tastier, probably because I aged the meat a little longer prior to processing. My girls couldn't stop eating it, they liked it so much. A high school girl with an hour's practice time under her belt, more likely than not, will be more accurate with her crossbow than a skilled archer with a compound who has practiced for a half hour a day for 6 months. Most of that is due to the fact that the crossbow is usually fired from a rest with telescopic sights, with no or little effort required to hold at full draw, or to make the draw. There is a lot more hunters with a spare hour to practice than there is with six months. Do the math. The last advantage to the crossbow, which makes it better than even a gun, is that it is almost as silent as a conventional bow. Gunshots make the deer go nocturnal in these infested zones, rich in heavy cover, even faster than all the human scent starting to permeate the woods. These are the reasons the crossbow is THE answer for getting the deer population under control in these zones.

Maybe we could get a little more detail about how the DEC plans to work the crossbow into this deal. Someone posted in the crossbow section that there will be full inclusion in 2016. Anyone hear more on that rumor? That would certainly do more to keep the deer populations under control in theses zones than any of the other ideas that have been thrown out there.

Fishing is only a sin when it is "catch and release". Jesus's first followers were fisherman. At one time He actually helped them fill two boats with fish (for consumption) to the point where they were on the verge of foundering. Another time, as reported in all four Gospels, He provided thousands of fish to feed masses of people, all by Himself. I draw no line between killing fish and eating them and killing animals and eating them. That is what God created them for - to feed people.

I will believe that when I see it. That little group of dedicated, "elitist" bowhunters is still fighting to keep them out and not showing that they are ready to "roll-over" yet. Time will eventually catch up to them though, and then they will want to pick up a crossbow and extend their own archery hunting years a bit. I don't hate those hunters, I love them just like all the rest. I just hate their action of trying to keep such an effective weapon out of our hands in archery season. There is nothing cool about discriminating against the elderly, women, children, and the disabled.

I may be off my rocker, but I sure am eating good thanks to all the help JC gave me in filling the freezer last fall. How did you all do by the way? Post some pic's if you have them. I would be more interested in pictures of backstraps and roasts than antlers however. While I was unable to fill any of my own DMP's last year, I limited on bucks plus received a couple "gift" ones. I was a little disappointed not to get a crack at a doe last fall. Hopefully that will change this year now that the DEC has stacked the deck a little in my favor. A little "doe-meat" will be nice for a change. Sorry to hear about your issue with the booze and I was not referencing you about the wild party last night. I kept it under control myself at the wedding we attended last night, but my wife was nursing a major hangover all day today - hence the missed church. It is good to hear that you were helped by Him in your recovery. I am not sure why you find it so hard to believe He helps fill my freezer. My rifle season buck appeared less than a minute after I asked Him if I could only "see" a buck. No one will ever convince me again that all the practice and reading in the world will help me get a deer more than He can. Is there any book that can help you off the booze more than the Bible?

It is actually due to my respect for God's creation that I am so strongly in favor of the crossbow. I feel that weapon is at least 10 times as effective at killing deer, does in particular, than a compound. That is also the reason I am not into "catch and release" fishing. God created animals and fish for man to eat. Few pursuits put one in a better place to enjoy and reap that bounty than hunting and fishing.

I don't expect to have the woods all to myself (that would be "selfish" of me, not something JC would be in to for sure). I do expect at least some less pressure. I see just one early bow-hunter on this site who still plans on hunting those zones for those two weeks. I also see at least two who don't. If we can so get rid of half the early bow-hunting pressure that we had last year, it should help a lot when that far more effective doe-killing weapon, and the one my hero JC would surely chose (the Cross-bow), get's legal. I also find it odd to see no reference to the crossbow in that long preceding explanation of the new regs. Why is that? p.s: I like that verse quoted above. I launched my "beam" about 1.5 years ago, there is no stopping me now. I am certainly not without sin though, nor will I ever claim to be. I couldn't be more thankful to be one of the "sinners" who HE paid the full price for up on that cross a long time ago. If I can help a few others into that boat, I would be even more thankful.

To all those "haters" who pop up from time to time: none has half the strength it would require to make me stop giving the credit for ALL of my successes to my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Thank you, and keep them coming, for I especially relish these personal attacks. That last one may be the best one yet. They embolden me and show me THE real need which exists in many hunters out there, especially on a Sunday when we were not able to make it to church because we stayed out too late at a "wild" party. What I really like about this forum is the freedom to say whatever I want on this subject, without having to be "politically correct". It sure seems to be a "target-rich" environment. Keep up you practicing, scouting, and reading up on hunting info (it usually can't hurt) but you will never succeed in Life without Christ. I will pray for you, that you give him a chance, keep the door open, and don't close him out. Maybe take a little Bible in your pack to pass some of the quite times in the stand or blind. Some time, when you least expect it, he may shower you with blessings like he has for me. To get us back onto the topic of this thread, I do see how these new "no-buck for two weeks" regulations for my home-zone could be an extra blessing just for me. Even non-Christians scientists can understand how less human scent in the woods means more deer. Good hunting to you all this fall, and some day I hope to see you in that "happing hunting ground" up above.

We will definitely have to see how this plays out. I am excited by the change and applaud the DEC for getting it thru. The sharp reduction in early bow-hunting pressure will be a God-send for us crossbow hunters in these "infested" zones where the deer have enough cover to go nocturnal soon after they sense some pressure. I will be sure and post back, how many DMP's I am able to fill this fall with my $250 crossbow. Maybe I will even get to post a few more photos of "heart" shots. They are not giving us any more time but this will greatly multiply the quality of the little bit we do get before gun season opens. We had the peak of the rut last year, now we have it without all that extra human scent in the woods. I would settle for a small compromise with the elitist bowhunters who are still pushing hard to keep the crossbow out. Give us full inclusion, in these zones only, in exchange for a return of legal buck harvest throughout.

Any part of the deer other than antlers? Where do I turn myself in for the dozen or so tails I clipped off road-kills over the years to make fishing lures? One time I got more than I bargained for and the big "dead" doe jumped to her feet when I touched her tail. Since I already had my knife drawn, I jumped on her back, put her in a hammer-lock, and slit her throat. After she stopped flopping around on the snow, creating a scene like a bloody massacre in the fellas front yard, I threw her in the back of my pickup and drove directly to the town police station. I asked the desk officer for a tag. Someone had already called in the "road-kill" earlier. As I stood there, bloodied up a bit, he asked if the deer had to be shot. When I told him: "no, I killed it with a my knife" (a 1-1/4", lock-blade), he said: "that would be no". Then he gave me a carcass tag. Our freezer was already full, so I gave this one to a friend. He dropped it off at a butcher who said that was the cleanest deer he had ever cut up.

That is a cute little northern you caught on the home-made spinner. This big ugly one also hit a home-made lure (buck-tail jig). There was a big, spiral-shaped scar on the other side where a boat-prop must have hit, and it's gut looked fat. I found a 10" long specimen of my favorite "fall-fish" in there when I gutted him, a smallmouth bass.

Contrary to what the "experts" are saying on this thread, this will may achieve the desired effect: to reduce the deer population in specific zones that are currently "infested" with way too many deer. I live in one of them zones, and it is a pain dodging deer in the car every day on the way too and from work. It is hard to grow much shrubbery around the house, and growing pumpkins in the garden is now impossible without an electric fence. The situation is not as simple as it appears on the surface. In those first two weeks in the doe-only zones, bow-hunters will not directly reduce the deer population. Few, if any that I know have interest in killing does anyhow. For that reason, they will spend those two weeks in other zones, where killing bucks is legal, taking their human scent with them to those areas. There, they may kill their bucks and be satisfied. Bow-hunting had been rapidly gaining in popularity, in my zone at least, over the last 5 years or so. All that human scent in the woods early has hurt the gun hunting, resulting in lower overall harvest numbers, and especially antlerless. Years ago, when gun season opened, probably half the local herd was polished off on opening day. Now the deer are mostly nocturnal by opening day of gun season. The only thing that makes them go nocturnal even faster is when they start hearing the guns go off. That is why the muzzleloader is definitely not the answer to the problem. The bow is quiet, and that is good, but what makes it especially ineffective as a doe-killing weapon, is the need to draw it with the deer in close. In these "infested" zones, does almost always travel in groups. Drawing a bow with all them eyes around is seldom a slam dunk. They use the "convoy" system, just like the allies used against the axis submarines in WWII. This season, with the new "doe-only" restrictions in place, and another change put in place last season, the situation is perfect for a doe-slaughter like we have never seen. The "secret-weapon" that will take them down is the crossbow. It has the silent-stealth of the bow, but does not need to be drawn with the deer in close. Thanks to the big reduction in human scent early, they wont smell it or see it coming. They will have no idea what hit them when the crossbow opens up at the end of archery season. I almost feel sorry for the does this fall (until I look at some of the shrubs they chewed off last winter or fork over some cash to buy my kids pumpkins). Our venison supply is getting down, I just defrosted the freezer, sighted in my crossbow, and I planted the last of my food-plots tonight. I can't wait for those last two weeks of southern zone archery season when I can start working on the two DMP's I have now and hopefully two more after November 1. Hopefully I can fill my archery & ML buck and doe tags up in the northern zone before then also. I am more than ready to do my part.