wolc123

I know there are some folks out there who live for bow-hunting and are willing to put in the effort to become very proficient with that weapon. Where I have a problem is when they don't want to share "their" deer with folks who may lack the strength, or time to attain such proficiency. That is pretty much pure selfish elitism. There are plenty of deer to go around but they do deserve to be killed cleanly. If the crossbow can help us "lazier" folks do that, why keep them out? We need all the hunters we can get. If you hunt with a vertical bow, you have got to be willing to accept some misses, and some woundings. This site is especially loaded with examples of that this year. Obviously no one wants to wound deer, but some of us are bothered more than others by that. I only missed a deer once with my bow, over 30 years, but I did wound a few that I did not recover. I have forgotten some of my clean kills, but none of the woundings. I know for certain that one of those fully recovered, as a friend harvested him a month later with a healed up shoulder blade. Two others I hit there likely did ok also, but the one I hit too far back will always haunt me. I was always "done for the season" with the bow on those years. I cringe every time I see folks tell those who wound deer to "get back out there and try again". I say "get to the range", or "hang it up for the year, learn from your mistake, and do better next season". While I cant speak for anyone else, I know that in my hands at least, a deer is far less likely to be wounded from my crossbow than my vertical bow. There is simply no comparison in the accuracy I can achieve firing a scoped crossbow from a rest, and a vertical bow with pin & peep sights offhand. I can pick out a hair I want to hit at 50 yards with that crossbow, while I am limited to a pie-plate at 30 yards with my vertical. For that reason, I doubt I will pick up my vertical again for deer hunting. Sure it would be nice to get out there for all of archery season, but I am thankful that we at least got the best two weeks. I like it cold for deer hunting, so I didn't miss anything on this warm season so far anyhow. Saturday's cold forecast looks perfect for the opener.

When I had that problem, if I saw the guy in the other stand, I went somewhere else. They would also do the same thing. It is not a big deal, as long as you have enough land with some other options. With smaller properties it can be tough for sure. For quite a few years, I had a productive stand on a 6-acre woodlot, until it produced two nice wallhanger bucks for me in one year with a bow and gun. It was a narrow piece of land, and the next year I had neighbor's treestands less than 50 yards away on two sides. They wanted some of that action and boxed me in pretty good. That made the hunting tougher as the spot was too small for multiple locations. I ended up selling, a few years later, after taking only a couple more antlerless deer there. It was good while it lasted and I was thankful for the "peaceful" hunts I had there. The cash came in handy for a nice new tractor however.

The 3100 psi pressure washer did not harm the horns, but I did not direct the stream on them. I have heard that some folks wrap the lower part of the horns with duct-tape. The mess was not that bad from just the scull plate, but I imagine a whole head would be worse. I have a big concrete pad out in the country by my barn so it was no big deal.

I just threw some deer parts out on my bait pile this morning. It gets a lot easier hunting coyotes at night after we get some snow. There is enough moon left now, that it may be doable for a few days anyhow. Hopefully the snow will arrive soon. That always makes the deer hunting and the coyote hunting much better.

I finally got to try the pressure washer I garbage-picked this summer on a scull plate. It took a little longer than I was expecting but did a pretty decent job. A few tips I picked up during the process: 1.) Do it on a concrete pad, not on the grass. 2.) Cut off most of the raw hide with a sharp knife prior. 3.) Wear rubber boots and rubber bibs. 4.) Wear goggles or safety glasses. With a 3100 psi washer and a pencil nozzle, it took about 20 minutes to blast off all the brains and hide, leaving a clean skull plate, on a buck killed 2 days prior. I would imagine that a full European mount would take about an hour. It is still a messy job, but much faster and less smelly than the usual, boil and scrape method. The last time a neighbor kid did an older buck for me, using the conventional "boil" method, it turned out pretty good, but his own 1-1/2 year buck, that he did in the same pots, got cracked up a bit. The scull plate I did today with the pressure washer was also from a 1-1/2 year old buck, and the pressure washer did not do any damage to the skull at all, even to the thin areas around the sinus passages. It removed all the brains, skin and other soft tissue.

The long range weather predictions are looking real good for the opener, next Saturday. I just picked up two more doe tags and I can't wait to get out there with a weapon that is ideally suited for killing does. No longer will I "get busted" when one pair of eyes out of a group catches me making the draw. Also, I passed up a little guy up in the Northern zone with my Muzzleloader a few weeks ago, so if "Mister Big" shows up, I still have a tag for him. I just hope some antlerless deer get into range for me during those two weeks. Last year, only two bucks showed up in range. I was sleeping when the first arrived. Thankfully, his little bit bigger brother wasn't so lucky a few days later.

Lockport Walmart was good this afternoon, with just one guy at the counter ahead of me when I got there and I had no trouble getting (2) more 9F's, bringing my total to (4). Hopefully, I can start filling them next weekend when Crossbow opens up. The weather sounds perfect then with lows in the 30's. The rest of this week looks terrible with highs in the 70's. My deer fridge is full now with a 4-point a neighbor dropped off for us last night. That one should be aged perfect for processing next weekend, and any I kill later should be able to hang out in the garage by the looks of the long-range weather predictions. I killed a tick on that young buck when I was skinning him this morning. We need some more cold to get rid of them damn things.

I'll take a stab at that one: We got to go back to the OP, since that is all we have for info on that particular buck from an "eye-witness". It sounds like the OP estimated the age of the buck as 13-1/2 years old. That is "ancient" for a free-range, NY state buck. The oldest buck I ever killed in NY was one last year that I would estimate at 4-1/2 - 5-1/2 and it was still in near-peak physical condition, except for considerable tooth wear. A 13-1/2 year old would have to be in pretty rough shape overall. The first deer I ever shot at with a bow (and also wounded - shoulder blade hit), was a doe of similar vintage. She came in with a big healthy doe and a fawn. All three were in range, but "grandma" offered the best shot so I took it. She pulled the old "duck and jump", when she heard my bow release at 25 yards, taking the arrow in the shoulder blade. She may have recovered from that shot, I will never know, but she was clearly near the end of the line anyhow. Maybe the OP took some extra risk on this old buck because he could tell that it was in wretched condition. A stomach hit will usually kill within 24 hours, not pleasant, but probably better than some other alternatives, which could include starvation. If that old boy had made it thru 13 hunting seasons, he did a lot better than most. Rather than adorning some lucky hunter's wall, now he can be at peace in the forest where he evaded them for so long. p.s., I just checked out "Google maps" to verify the distance that the 4-point currently hanging in my garage was killed at from my position at the time: 44.34 miles. My 50 mile estimate was a little over this time, unlike last year's Crossbow 6-point where I estimated 50 yards and he turned out to be 59. I ain't perfect but JC is, He always gets things exactly right. I cant make it to church this morning since there is skinning and quartering to do. Happy hunting to all of you headed to the woods.

One other possibility is "string jump". If a deer is in a state of "high-alert", which could be triggered by a periforal glimpse of your "draw" motion, the initial reaction is to drop down when they hear the bow release. Also, bucks that respond to grunt calls or rattling are "alerted", and literally looking to get jumped on the way in. 35 yards is about the range where string jump is most severe. If he was farther, he would not have heard your bow release, triggering the duck & jump. If he were closer, he would not have been able to move as far when the arrow was in the air. You are fortunate that your arrow missed clean. I have struck several in the shoulder blade in those situations. At least that injury has a good recovery rate. String jump is the biggest reason why proficiency on paper does not translate to proficiency on deer for the bow-hunter. The paper don't move while the arrow is in the air.

Thanks for the bump Belo & Buckmaster . A little more focus in the right place and you all might be able to post us some new pictures this season. They are out there now and active. A neighbor just dropped off a stout little 4-point that he arrowed yesterday afternoon. Them tenderloins will be good with my eggs tomorrow morning. He heart-shot that one too, from the ground, as it was walking towards him at 20 yards. Too bad he left it with the rest of the gut pile, so no fresh heart pictures yet. He was a little upset to see it was a buck, as there were four or five "big boys" he was after. It could have used two more years. Too upset to eat it himself I guess, but it worked out well for me. Now I can be a little more selective with my own buck tag out there with the Crossbow next week. Good luck with the rest of the season. Distance?, heck the one hanging in my garage now came from nearly 50 miles away. Jesus truly is amazing, almost like when he helped those fellas fill their boats with fish. I did not even need to waste an arrow on that one.

A friend just nailed a "nice" 4-point with his bow in the Southern Tier and is bringing it over as I type. It looks like we won't starve this winter. Warm weather in the forcast next week means I will need to quarter it and fire up the old "deer fridge" in the garage to get the meat aged properly. One of the best things about bow-killed deer is that very little if any meat goes to waste, unlike some bloodied up gun or car-killed ones I have cut up. Hopefully, after x-bow opens in another week I can add some of my own to the supply.

I wish you were on the other side of the state. That sounds like a good one to try "bloodglow" on tonight. If the broadhead is still in there, and you keep her moving, it might cause her to loose enough blood to go down for good. With that much yardage on her trail, you must not have got any of the lung. Every hit is different and the best thing to do with a broadhead-in, muscle tissue hit like that is to keep them moving. Just the opposite of a gut-hit, when it is best to leave them alone for 8 hours minimum. I would mark your spot of last blood and return after dark with a sprayer of "bloodglow". Don't forget to bring along a sharp knife.

I was part of the coyote hater group for a long time but I have learned to live with them. It used to be tough for me, having to drive thru a town that bans all hunting, on every weekday to get to work. Those big coyotes are the best thing to come along in years. Now I can get to work most mornings, even now at peak-rut time, without dodging deer or their carcasses. I also like how the coyotes take out the weak deer, mostly fawns and old, rutted-out bucks, during their two "happy-times" every year, early summer fawning, and early winter post-rut. The coyotes keep the deer that spill over into our town stronger, not the emaciated, half-starved pitiful creatures that would appear before they were around. The coyotes also provide some fun shooting after deer season ends.

Like to, can't.

Next year, I would consider moving your trip forward a week to Muzzle-Loading season. One advantage then will be better odds of good weather. I have hunted the area 20 - 40 miles North-West of that location for the last 13 years on ML opening week, and the weather has been decent every time. If there is finer scenery anywhere in the world, I haven't scene it. It is almost a toss-up between the snow-covered mountains or the peak fall foliage around the lakes and rivers. What that adds to the hunting and fishing experience can not be measured but comes across pretty good in your videos. Thanks for sharing. Up until the last 3 years, I stayed in my old truck camper or a very rustic "off-the-grid" cabin, heated with a wood fire-place. This year was cold, but I did see a bear. While still-hunting, I had a chance at a small 4-point buck that stood up 40 yards from my position. He will be in trouble, if I still have my buck-tag when I return on Thanksgiving weekend with my rifle. This was the first year in many that I did not see any does. Does may be legally harvested during ML season up there, and that greatly increases your odds of getting some fresh tenderloins to fry up with your eggs in the morning. I killed a large doe up there with my ML about 5 years ago, when the weather was again quite cool. Hopefully they will return turkey season to the old dates, to again be open on that week. I saw more turkeys up there this year than any year in the past. Ruffed grouse sightings were way up also. I lost count on the number of those that I flushed while still hunting for deer. I even shouldered my ML a few times, wishing I had my trusty side by side 16 ga shotgun instead. I always bring that along and spend more time grouse hunting than deer hunting on the warmer years. I have cooked many a grouse on a stick over a camp-fire and it sure beats hot-dogs or marshmellows. Smallmouth bass fishing also gets more of my time then on the warmer years. Even this year, in the cold, I managed 5-fish limits on Saturday and Sunday in about an hour at mid-day. I catch all of them on buck-tail jigs that I make myself. I am sure you know what fresh-fish in the frying-pan tastes like, and it doesn't get much better. I am heading up again on Thanksgiving weekend. Last year at that time up there, I managed to kill my heaviest buck ever, in the cold and snowy conditions. This year, I am hoping it is a little warmer, mostly because I want to get a crack at that bear I saw a few weeks ago. One last open-water Smallmouth outing would be nice also. Last year there was 1/4" of ice on the lake the morning after I killed my buck. I hope you are able to make the trip for many more years to come.

The OP made a mistake and it don't look like he has been back on this thread anyhow. All of us have made mistakes, but most don't like to admit that publicly. Some sure do love pointing out those made by others, as this 4 + pages of lecturing clearly shows. Fortunately, someone paid for all of our mistakes on the Cross a long time ago. The best thing any hunter can do is receive that gift with open arms. He who gave it determines how every deer's life ends. It might surprise you how much truer those arrows fly when you get things straightened out with The Man upstairs. Speaking of which, I cant wait to get out there next week. I would suggest to the OP that he get himself a Cross-bow and try again next week when that opens up. Congrats on that buck up above^ How's this for "Lethal":

Why does He allow deer to be hit by cars? Sometimes for my family to eat I suppose, as it has happened many times including the fine button buck last winter, who's frozen parts we are just about ready to start on. The tenderloins were delicious on that one, four days after the kill. It has got to be a better way to go than starvation, old age, or coyote kill, which are the only other options in many NY areas where hunting is currently banned, including the adjacent town. There was a motorist killed in our town from a deer-car collision a few years ago. That was a tough one, but will probably add years of legal hunting in this area, in spite of accelerating urban sprawl. Sometimes you got to look hard for the silver lining, but it is always there. As long as you keep the door open, some day He will pile on enough proof that is impossible to deny. I will continue to point out additional evidence as it occurs, as long as I am able, and I appreciate all your "bumps" back up to the top. There is no way to deny the hand He had in at least my last 4 bucks. Try as I might, I cant think of any of my hundred or so total deer kills over the last 30 some years that He didn't play the lead role.

What grinds my gears a bit are the elitist, selfish bow-hunters who are fighting so hard to keep crossbows out of "their" season. Waiting until the last two weeks has not been that bad this year at least, because it has been too warm to kill a deer and properly care for the meat. My gears would have ground a lot harder if we had some more cool weather these first 4 weeks. Hopefully they will throw in the towel prior to next season, so we can have all of it. I did hear a rumor that may be in the cards. Other than that, I am more amused than aggravated by some hunters. Holding out for only older bucks for example. I will take a 2.5 year buck over just about anything myself, as it offers the perfect combination of quality and quantity. Those who like "challenging" themselves, to the point of risking not killing a deer cleanly, is tough for me to understand. I don't want to "give the deer a chance", if I don't have to. The less the "challenge" the better for me. Then there are those who claim they will only take shots when they are 100% sure of the kill. Really? Acting like it is a sin to kill a button buck, but thinking nothing of killing a fat doe at the end of ML season, that may well be packing two, is odd to me. 25% of my antlerless kills have been button bucks thru the years, and there is no finer eating for sure. If you ever are hart-broken or run off a hunting club for taking one, pm me and send it my way. One thing I really like, is when folks hop on to condemn me for giving my savior Jesus Christ most, or all of the credit for deer that I kill. That helps put the focus where it should be and not on my own personal hunting skills. Sure I practice a bit and put in some time, but it is The man upstairs who has the final say where ALL deer end up. If He chooses to put them in my freezer why shouldn't I give Him the credit? It is no coincidence that the Cross-bow is my favorite deer weapon.

Not good for those of us that process our own venison. No matter to me though, as I am not going out until x-bow opens the second week. Hopefully the cool weather will kick in by then. Veteran's day was perfect last year (peak rut time too) and I already scheduled a vacation day this year. Hopefully I can score again on that day because our venison supply is starting to get low. Last year, the first week was cool and I had near perfect "hanging weather" for a 2-1/2 year, bow-killed buck that a friend gave me. From that point thru the end of ML in mid-December, meat ageing temps stayed good inside my garage. It sure was nice to not have to skin and quarter the carcasses and put them into the old fridge like I need to most years.

I would be reluctant to take on an antlered buck with a knife for fear of loosing an eye with a tine, but I was able to dispatch a big doe and a button buck in similar situations without too much trouble. The doe connected with a hard kick to my leg, causing some swelling and a big bruise. This thread is a timely reminder to always have a sharp knife in your vehicle at this time of year. I have picked up a dozen or so road kills, and most had lots of good meat on them. The doe that kicked me must have just knocked herself out, because there was not a mark on her body after the hide was removed. I tossed her into the back of my pickup and drove directly to the town police station. The desk officer looked up at my blood-splattered attire and asked: "did the deer have to be shot" ? I answered: "no, I killed her with my knife". He replied: "that would be no", then handed me the carcass tag. Most have been struck near my house, and I just drive up with a tractor and throw them in the bucket, then drive them back in the field to gut, then hang them in the garage, then call the police for a tag. I have no fear of being "caught" with a road-kill deer on the tractor before getting a tag. My priority is always to care for the meat first. I get the guts out as soon as possible. Providing tags for road-kill deer is close to the bottom of a cop's priorities and it is dumb to wait for a tag before you get the guts out of a deer. The ones that are obviously in bad shape (broken legs, etc.) I just throw on the "carcass pile" behind my bedroom window, as "coyote bait" and don't even bother getting a tag for. The good ones are tagged and processed just like those I kill with conventional hunting methods. They all taste the same. The best thing about road-kills is they allow me to be more selective with my hunting tags.

I will probably try to get some Sunday also, thanks for the reminder. Last season I didn't have a doe in range from the beginning of archery until the end of ML. They seemed to go nocturnal, as soon as they smelled a little hunting pressure, probably because there were plenty of acorns around. A lot less acorns this year should mean more daylight doe action, and hopefully a milder winter also. The timing is pretty good on the extra permits, since I don't plan on hunting until x-bow opens on the 7th anyhow. By that time, the temps should also be lower and better for those of us who do our own processing. Standing in line at Walmart won't be too bad of a way to kill a Sunday afternoon this week.

I usually just put a screwdriver to every one prior to sighting in on the range in the late summer/early fall, and make sure they are tight. I never had an issue with one loosening up. If you are going to be bouncing one around on an atv or in a gun-rack in a truck, you might have an issue due to vibration and then blue Loctite would probably help. The red stuff would be a nightmare to remove if you ever broke your scope or decided to upgrade. My scoped guns are only transported in a padded case or carried on a sling on my shoulder so vibration is not a problem.

I also like the Hornady SST's in 12 ga, 2-3/4". They group very good on the range and perform well inside deer. I am using them in a bolt-action, which is not very "fussy" about brands, shooting decent groups with any I have tried. I have heard stories of folks with cantilever scope mount pumps and autos that do best with a particular brand. You will definitely want to experiment a little and find out what your gun likes best.

Buck-n-doe was also where I took the one that I thought I got back more than I should have. It was a rutted-out 10 point buck I killed at the end of gun season. I skinned it myself, took the head and hide to the taxidermist, and the carcass to Buck-n-doe. The hind quarters were thin and the carcass could not have weighed much over a hundred pounds. The meat I picked up, which included lots of "pepper-sticks", some steaks, chops, small roasts, and grind, all totaled 74 pounds. I was not too concerned about getting that one back, as it looked like he may have been old and tough. I remember thinking, when I picked up the box, that they might just put quantity of meat in the boxes based on the information on the tag (10 or more point buck = 75 pounds, 8 point = 60 pounds, smaller bucks/does = 40 pounds, fawns = 25 pounds, or something like that.) The meat was all good, and those pepper sticks were awesome. I do think they told me that I would get back the poundage of smoked/processed stuff that they added to the "general supply", but the rest would be my own. I would definitely consider that shop again for a late-season kill. They certainly did not "short-change" me that last time I used them.

I have been on both sides of this one and never had an issue. I have even made some new friends as a result. One out-of-state "antler-fanatic" even stopped over to check out my mounts when he was in town. He was very wealthy and had leased the hunting rights on hundreds of acres of land behind our 40 acres. With signs every 50 feet or so on the border, I thought a call first would be a good idea. My folks farm, in a nearby town, is heavily posted and is adjacent to a trailer park. A few years ago I saw a guy come thru the woods obviously on a trail. He told me he had hit a big buck. Myself and another neighbor helped him track it for a couple hours. There was good snow so it was relatively easy to follow. Eventually we lost the trail and gave up. As I was eating a late lunch with my parents, we looked out back and saw it cross the field behind the house with one front leg hanging. I followed the tracks to the property line and the bleeding had stopped completely. I have seen three legged deer do fine, so he should be ok, but likely grow "non-typical" antlers in following years. There will always be a fringe of miserable SOB's who wont let you on their land for any reason. Most likely they had bad things happen to them and are taking their frustrations out on others. The best thing you can do for such folks is to pray that they "see the light" before it is too late. Their bitterness may cost you some meat, but they are doing far more damage to themselves. There are plenty of deer and they are not worth getting such folks all riled up.