New York waste at it's best

[adirondackbushwhack]

Based on your posts in this thread, I think you have stated your opinion quite clearly. I have never met a man who defended unions as much as you have in your posts on this thread, who wasn't a union member. I'b be very suprised if you weren't a member, or part of a union member family, by your vigorous defense of them. My reference to objectiveness was with respect to labor and prevailing wage, not about you personally.

If you would care to give details of your opinion on the issue, I will try to sway your opinion as best I can. But without specifc points to debate, there is an awful lot of information open to discussion.

My oppinion on this matter is that the government paying (non Union) kids in temporary summer positions $51.71 an hour is unacceptable. Since the government is paying that wage and since the government requires itself by existing law or rule to pay that wage to NON UNION kids it is the politicians fault for enacting such laws or rules requireing that pay in the first place and it remains their fault for leaving those laws/rules in place.

That is not a pro union stance it is mearly pointing the finger at those who are responcible for wasteing my money. Further, IF, and I say again IF, the politicians were bribed by corrupt Union officials to enact rules or laws that favourd the unions it is the fault of the politicians because they are the ones who are supposed to be our protectors and looking out for our best interest. They are the ones who are supposed to be uncorruptable, to be steadfast in protecting our best interests and when they do not, for any reason, protect our interest THEY are at fault. I cannot stand to hear from the politicians "Its not my fault I wasted all of your money I was bribed by the bad Union guy". B.S. Corrupt politicians are just that and need to go to prison along with who ever it was that bribed them. But it doesn't happen because the government/media complex manages to shift blame for what they do to sombody else and come out looking like the good guys in the eyes of many, perhaps like you, who blame the unions for the actions of corrupt politicians.

But I am open to different perspectives; perhaps you can shed some light on how a corrupt politician who is charged with protecting our best interest is NOT at fault when he takes a bribe or fails to protect our interests for any reason.

Edited June 25, 2012 by adirondackbushwhack

[GreeneHunter]

This is more like Fed waste in NY.

Here is an example of more NY waste. I like this guy Kieran Michael Lalor. He came to my house and chatted for a while. He's one of the good guys for sure. A Marine vet, was a teacher, now a lawyer, and a conservative. I'f you live in our district vote for him.

For Immediate Release

June 21, 2012

Contact

Mary Covucci

845.616.3509

[email protected]

Albany Pay Hike Scheme Presents a Golden Opportunity for Bold New Reforms

"The cynicism of New York lawmakers and their contempt for voters and taxpayers knows no bounds."

Fishkill, New York: Today New York State Assembly candidate Kieran Michael Lalor denounced a plan by state lawmakers to give themselves an outrageous twenty-five percent salary increase from $79,500 to $100,000. Lalor also reaffirmed his commitment to support specific reforms to end Albany’s culture of corruption.

According to a report by New York Post state editor Fred Dicker, the legislature will wait until after the November election to vote on the hefty pay hike, which would take effect immediately in January when the new legislature is sworn in. The additional $20,500 in salary for each of the 212 legislators will cost taxpayers more than $4.3 million each year on top of the more than $20 million dollars we already pay members of the Assembly and State Senate.

Said Lalor, who has been the state’s most outspoken reformer on legislator compensation issues, “The cynicism of New York lawmakers and their contempt for voters and taxpayers knows no bounds. This scheme allows the legislature to avoid facing the electorate for a full two years after the pay raise in hopes that we will forget.”

Lalor noted that due to the 27th Amendment to the US Constitution, federal lawmakers are now barred from getting a pay raise without first having to face the electorate. The Amendment was ratified in 1992 after Congress gave itself what reformers denounced as the “midnight pay raise” of 1991.

James Madison, the Father of the US Constitution, initially proposed this check on Congress and said, "There is a seeming impropriety in leaving any set of men without control to put their hand into the public coffers, to take out money to put in their pockets."

“This money grab by Albany can be a catalyst for meaningful reforms that will end institutional corruption like this pay raise scam and other transfers of wealth from taxpayers to lawmakers,” continued Lalor.

Lalor has pledged to self-impose a ten percent pay cut and will also forego other wasteful and expensive perks lawmakers have voted themselves. Additionally, Lalor will encourage other lawmakers to self-impose these reforms and champion the reforms until they become law. Lalor’s intrepid reform agenda helped him earn the

endorsement of the Dutchess County Independence Party last month.

As justification for a raise, lawmakers have long complained about not having a pay increase since 1999. Of this complaint Lalor said. “New York lawmakers were never underpaid. New York is dead last in business climate but we are number three in legislator salary and number one in total legislator compensation thanks to the big salary and other perks lawmakers have voted themselves.”

“New York lawmakers are in session less than 70 days per year but make a base salary of $79,500. The median income in the state is $55,600 and the state unemployment rate is 8.6%. Can anyone say with a straight face that Albany lawmakers deserve a salary nearly double what the average New Yorker makes for one third of the work?” asked Lalor.

In February Lalor launched the

Empire State Compact, a bipartisan pledge to end institutionalized corruption in Albany and reverse New York’s decline. Lalor also discussed the topic on Fred Dicker’s radio show in February and in a YNN interview from the State Capitol Building in early May.

The Empire State Compact, which calls for five key reforms including reducing legislator compensation, term limits and continuing the ban on so called "pork" spending, is detailed here at Lalor’s campaign website.

###

Town of Wappinger native Kieran Michael Lalor, a former teacher at Our Lady of Lourdes in Poughkeepsie, is a Marine Corps veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom and founder of the Dutchess County based consulting firm KML Strategies, LLC. Lalor is the founder of Afghanistan & Iraq Veterans for Congress and a frequent guest on the Fox News Channel. He is a graduate of John Jay High School, Providence College and Pace Law School and lives in Fishkill with his wife Mary Jo and their four young children Katie, Riley, Mikey and Kieran. Lalor is running for the new 105th Assembly District which is an open seat.

www.KML2012.com

“Like” Lalor For Assembly On Facebook

Donate To Our Campaign To Create Jobs, Reduce Taxes and Reform Albany

Lalor For Assembly

105 Stony Brook Rd

Fishkill, NY 12524

845.616.3509

www.KML2012.com

A Veteran running for Office .... How Refreshing !!!!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Do you really believe that the unions use their money to bribe the politicians to pay high wages to NON UNION workers? Does that really make sense to you?

Absolutely!!. The bribes are in the form of political contributions but the Unions have to have the high wages on the private (non-union) side of the business of the unions companies would not get the work. they would be higher in the bidding process and then the union craft would not be out to work. and that equals no dues

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm a union member and to make matters worse a gov. worker...I belong to the international Assc. of Fire Fighters , like the majority of my union i'm a conservative . I know thats not what Rush says..... I vote conservative oh and get this my dues money can not be used for politcal purposes, I know not what rush says again. Just like the NRA can't use dues money so they have the ILA, PVF, to raise money, unions have to do the same. I never have given and know one I know has.

In the 23 years as a FF my raises have been a one time high of 4% ( in the '90's when the market was doing great) to some zeros like this year. the ave. have been 2 to 2 1/2 % . My wife's in the private sector have been much better .

We have cut jobs, demoted people, taken zero raises, the starting pay is not much higher then mine 23 years ago .We get it,times are hard and we have responded .

Oh and in this liberal Dem city the cops and FF went 3 years with out a contract, they fought us on everything . i guess they never got the memo that we put them in office and now they owe us like Rush says its how it works. july 1st i get my raise of 0 % . Its ok my wife got 4 % and a nice profit sharing check this year.

I'm NOT complaining I love my job and do well, but the view from here is often differant then the one painted elsewhere.

And yes i think the story of that started this is a wrong and things are in need of changing .

I can show you private union payroll deductions that are specifed as PAC funds and the members have no say in how they are used and what candidates they support.

[Grouse]

BushWhack, I also believe the politicians are guilty. I never said they weren't. But the money and demand for these laws comes from Unions. So they are both equally responsible for stealing taxpayer funds.

Why is it no one goes to jail for this? Because the law is also designed for this type of corruption to go on in a way that is legal! Politicians dance to the tune of political contributions. They want to get re-elected. The Unions want work that pays high wages. They work hand in hand with politicians to make it a symbiotic relationship.

They are both equally responsible for prevailing wage laws that cost taxpayers big time.

[adirondackbushwhack]

Absolutely!!. The bribes are in the form of political contributions but the Unions have to have the high wages on the private (non-union) side of the business of the unions companies would not get the work. they would be higher in the bidding process and then the union craft would not be out to work. and that equals no dues

I see; so the Unions are responcible for driving wages, even those in the private sector, UP to keep everyone on an even playing field. So what you are saying then is that the unions force wages up for union members and non members alike? So it's not like as is reported in the government/media complex and the unions only drive their own wages up at the expense of everyone else? So then if people, both union and non union, are earning higher wages because of the unions why are so many people jumping on the band wagon to abolish the unions and effectively lower their own wages? My last question would be why is the government trying destroy the unions and lower your wages?

[adirondackbushwhack]

BushWhack, I also believe the politicians are guilty. I never said they weren't. But the money and demand for these laws comes from Unions. So they are both equally responsible for stealing taxpayer funds.

Why is it no one goes to jail for this? Because the law is also designed for this type of corruption to go on in a way that is legal! Politicians dance to the tune of political contributions. They want to get re-elected. The Unions want work that pays high wages. They work hand in hand with politicians to make it a symbiotic relationship.

They are both equally responsible for prevailing wage laws that cost taxpayers big time.

No you never said the politicians were not guilty but your anger and it seems most of your blame is directed at the unions instead of the politicians who are charged with your protection. The unions are charged with serving only their members while the politicians are charged with serving YOU; why aren't you more angry at the pols? They are not, to my mind equally responcible. The unions by getting higher wages for their members were fullfilling their duites while the politicians on the other hand were ignoring their duties for personal gain and therefor should be responcible for their actions. Again I say there could be no symbiotic relationship between unions and pols if the pols worked in your behalf. I am suggesting that if there is a symbiotic relationship between the two then the pols need to go. Don't they? I mean if the unions corrupted them then whats to stop the next guy from doing the same? Getting rid of the unions fixes nothing in the long run does it; if the same corrupt politicians are still in place willing to be bribed by the next guy is it?

Yes the laws are designed for corruption and it is the pols who make the laws, why doesn't that get you more angry than you are at the unions? Is there a chance your anger is being fueled in some part by the government/media complex? Not accusing or anything just asking the question for your personal consideration because if the gov/media complex is fueling anger against unions we need to ask OURSELVES why.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I see; so the Unions are responcible for driving wages, even those in the private sector, UP to keep everyone on an even playing field. So what you are saying then is that the unions force wages up for union members and non members alike? So it's not like as is reported in the government/media complex and the unions only drive their own wages up at the expense of everyone else? So then if people, both union and non union, are earning higher wages because of the unions why are so many people jumping on the band wagon to abolish the unions and effectively lower their own wages? My last question would be why is the government trying destroy the unions and lower your wages?

The government can only control wages on projects with Govt money in them. if it was good business all the private projects would be built using prevailing wages. Why aren't they. Because it would be too much freaking money. Build your house specifying prevailing rate...let me know how that works out for you.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Prevailing law should go away. it should be driven by market rules. THere is a cost to purchase a skill set to do a specifiec task. the market should set that not a predetermined number. Why is that not happening? Becasue the union and prevailing wages if HIGHER that the market point. It is welfare. It is the same as govt subsidy fo the corn for ethanol. it is not cost effective but your money is being used to prop it up and forcing other things up in price to cover it.

[adirondackbushwhack]

Yes it is welfare but Government CANNOT fix the problem government IS the problem. You want to fix theese problems the answer isn't to restrict unions the answer is to restrict government.

[Grouse]

I hate corrupt politicians more than I dislike unions. But I can do something about the elected crooks. I can vote against them. All I can do about unions is show others what is corrupt about them. A so, you get what you see here in this thread.

They work for their own members like the mob takes care of it's members. They protect their own to the detriment, and expense of the rest of the society. The mob is organized crime, the unions are legalized extortion.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yes it is welfare but Government CANNOT fix the problem government IS the problem. You want to fix theese problems the answer isn't to restrict unions the answer is to restrict government.

I don't blame the union for trying to get the most fo rtheir members. I blame the ploiticians and unimformed voters for allowing them to get it through.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I hate corrupt politicians more than I dislike unions. But I can do something about the elected crooks. I can vote against them. All I can do about unions is show others what is corrupt about them. A so, you get what you see here in this thread.

They work for their own members like the mob takes care of it's members. They protect their own to the detriment, and expense of the rest of the society. The mob is organized crime, the unions are legalized extortion.

In some cases I agree but not in the case of every union. Corrupt union leaders are nearly as bad as corrupt politicians in either case it is the regular working people who suffer and I'm sure that while you and I both want things to work correctly neither one of us wants our fellow Americans to suffer because of a few corrupt individuals.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I don't blame the union for trying to get the most fo rtheir members. I blame the ploiticians and unimformed voters for allowing them to get it through.

Now we are on the same page. Excepting that I have a hard time blaming the voters too being that the gov/media complex feeds them a steady diet of propaghanda under what they call news and misinform everyone. Then again what choices do the people have to vote for? We can only vote for whoever the two parties let us vote for and here lately they never give us any good choices that I can see. No I'm not thinking there is any easy way out of the mess they have made out of this once great Republic.

[nyantler]

I would blame the unions for trying to get more than what is fair to the taxpayers... without the consent of the taxpayers... unions were created to make sure workers got fair compensation and good, safe working conditions... not to see how much they could squeeze out of the companies and taxpayers... they have gotten out of control without the help of the government and even more out of control with the governments help.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I would blame the unions for trying to get more than what is fair to the taxpayers... without the consent of the taxpayers... unions were created to make sure workers got fair compensation and good, safe working conditions... not to see how much they could squeeze out of the companies and taxpayers... they have gotten out of control without the help of the government and even more out of control with the governments help.

I would say that it is true that in some cases unions squeeze companies too hard but not so in most cases. IN the case of public employee unions they can't really squeeze they have no strike no lockout clauses for the most part and therefore can really only get what the government agrees to. In some cases that go to arbitration unions might win a bit more than the pols wanted to give them but those cases are rare because the pols appoint the arbitraitors.

Edited June 27, 2012 by adirondackbushwhack

[nyantler]

I would say that it is true that in some cases unions squeeze companies too hard but not so in most cases. IN the case of public employee unions they can't really squeeze they have no strike no lockout clauses for the most part and therefore can really only get what the government agrees to. In some cases that go to arbitration unions might win a bit more than the pols wanted to give them but those cases are rare because the pols appoint the arbitraitors.

I was speaking more of private unions with my statement... public unions work more in the pockets of politicians to get what they want.