New Lease Buck

[adirondackbushwhack]

you say that but yet it is acceptable in other states. are we only state that it is illegal?

I never rely on a politicin to frame my principals. Just because some politician someplace says its legal, probably because of money, doesn't make it right, or fair, or sportsmanlike. You've seen this on TV. They attract deer with feed and when the deer get used to eating there they sit over the feed and shoot the deer when it comes to eat. No skill, no accomlishment; and you've probably seen where they aren't even outside but open a window to shoot off a bench in many instances. Those who shoot over bait will never know the thrill of the hunt or the joy of accomplishment. They are robbing themselves of the true hunting experiance. Deer have no defence against food and so to my mind it makes it unfair and wrong. They aren't hunting deer they are only shooting them.

[G-Man]

Dec officers can come on your property at any time with probable cause. the game in nys belongs to the state. its now our deer r my deer. In europe you own the land you own the game on the land two totally different systems. sometimes we get them confused. I understand the want / need to get pictures. but this is an illegal way to do it in nys. As for the morality behind baiting that is another topic. As as i said before it is a nice buck...

[adirondackbushwhack]

I am well aware that it's ilegal to bait in season as well as out of season. I do believe that it gives hunters an unfair advantage during the season, however, my question is how is it that the DEC officers are aware of the baiting you spoke of. Do they walk people's property or do they go based on tips of neighbors that trespass and walk people's property without permission?

It is legal for DEC officers to go on private property without permission or a warrant. They only need a warrant to go inside a dwelling. I'd like to get in touch with those DEC officers who are actually doing something about the poaching I could use them around where I hunt.

[adirondackbushwhack]

Dec officers can come on your property at any time with probable cause. the game in nys belongs to the state. its now our deer r my deer. In europe you own the land you own the game on the land two totally different systems. sometimes we get them confused. I understand the want / need to get pictures. but this is an illegal way to do it in nys. As for the morality behind baiting that is another topic. As as i said before it is a nice buck...

Check that G-man I don't believe they need probable cause either; they have free rein to enter property.

Edited July 23, 2012 by adirondackbushwhack

[G-Man]

I called the dec tipp line last year about road hunters, their action was fast, and the road hunters dissappeared... A good tip with accurate descriptions of vehicles/people will give best results. its a simple anonomus form you can fill out via the web as well.. they do take their job seriously but can and do get flooded with calls during the season, your best bet is to get them information now so thye have time to do their job

[adirondackbushwhack]

I called the dec tipp line last year about road hunters, their action was fast, and the road hunters dissappeared... A good tip with accurate descriptions of vehicles/people will give best results. its a simple anonomus form you can fill out via the web as well.. they do take their job seriously but can and do get flooded with calls during the season, your best bet is to get them information now so thye have time to do their job

I've tried many times and so have others but haven't met with your same outcome. Maybe I'll give it another try this year it's no secret and I KNOW that DEC is aware of the poaching taking place; but I'll give them a reminder.

[BizCT]

I emailed DEC in hopes they will track his IP address and reprimand him for baiting!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am very surprised this is all the comments compared to others

The diference for my was the other guy PM's me after first post and said "Fu#k off" Kinda changes the attitude a bit...lol

[Paula]

who the mountain lion guy. wow

[cwhite]

It is legal for DEC officers to go on private property without permission or a warrant. They only need a warrant to go inside a dwelling.

Plain and simple, this statement is wrong. That is a clear cut 4th ammendment violation. There needs to be probable cause or exigent circumstances for any officer to enter private property without a warrant. In general the any law enforcement officer can only go where the general public is allowed to go. A picture on a forum or even the neighbor calling doesn't amount to Probable Cause. If the complaitant can bring the officer to see the violation without entering onto the private property then that can amount to PC. About the only exception is Border Patrol Agents entering onto private property within 25 miles of the border in order to patrol the border. And even that doesn't mean they can go snooping around just because...

I emailed DEC in hopes they will track his IP address and reprimand him for baiting!

Yeah, you go get him. Because from that picture and his words you can tell with 100% certainty that this picture didn't come from NH where it is legal to feed and bait deer with land owner permission. (this last statement is tongue in cheek)

[BizCT]

He said it will be long gone before hunting season, just using it for pics. He would have said, this pic isn't from NY. He should just man-up and do things the legal way. Put a cam on a trail and hope for the best.

[Geno C]

love when people post stuff like this lol...

[adirondackbushwhack]

Plain and simple, this statement is wrong. That is a clear cut 4th ammendment violation. There needs to be probable cause or exigent circumstances for any officer to enter private property without a warrant. In general the any law enforcement officer can only go where the general public is allowed to go. A picture on a forum or even the neighbor calling doesn't amount to Probable Cause. If the complaitant can bring the officer to see the violation without entering onto the private property then that can amount to PC. About the only exception is Border Patrol Agents entering onto private property within 25 miles of the border in order to patrol the border. And even that doesn't mean they can go snooping around just because...

I believe you are correct that in general law enfocement can only go where the general public can go but the rules are different for DEC officers. Any woods are open to DEC officers.

However a caller can supply probable cause when certain crimes are alleged by mearly making a phone call to law enforcement. A telephone complaint for domestic violence may be all that is necissary for probable cause to search a dwelling to check on the safety of the occupants for example; even if the home owner is standing in front of law enfocement and refusing them entry they can force their way in.

[NFA-ADK]

ECO officers can enter any house if probable cause is evident, no warrent needed, yet they are only allowed to check freezers/refridge... If you get caught poaching they can enter your house and take all your meat, I know a local upstate who had this happen to him. This guys roomate poached a deer then the ECO officer cam to the house and took every piece of meat in it, including everything he just went shoping for and his legal deer that was tagged. That was a long time ago but I think they can still do this if you are caught poaching...

DEC can come on any property to inspect for bait, poaching, or just to check your licence... They have free range of open space. I know a guy who lost his life time hunting privledge due to salt licks, you think the DEC gives a crap if he is tresspassing on your property? If you think this is not true call them on a property you think they can not enter that has illegal activity and they will march in no warrent needed for conservation of NYS game laws... Or environmental issues. While many might not think they are real police, they have every right a normal officer has and more...

These are the laws as I understand them, each officer has differant obligations and restrictions. ECO officers have a wide range of options, entering private or posted property is not off limits to them or DEC.

ECO are one of the only officers that can legaly enter a house with out a warrent if probable cause is cited like being caught poaching...

This is the way it was, not sure if things have changed...

[wdswtr]

ECO officers no longer exist as far as I know. That name changed to DEC officer.

Edited July 24, 2012 by wdswtr

[cwhite]

I've been a law enforcement officer for 15 plus years. I have taught law courses at a law enforcement academy. Thanks to handling a canine for four years, I'm especially well versed on 4th ammendment case law. I'm not going to argue with you guys on legal authority of ECO's and other law enforcement. There are horror stories everywhere and most of them are skewed. I can promise you that ECO's can not enter anywhere that is wooded just because.... A rumor is not probable cause. A written or oral tip from a neighbor doesn't equal probable cause most of the time. If it is posted then it is off limits for the most part. If you are seen with a rifle and hunting clothes on posted property, that is PC for a ECO to enter your property to check your hunting license, not to go snooping around for a bait pile... unless it is visible while checking the license.

There has to be an exigent circumstance (fleeing suspect, human life in danger (where your domestics come into play bushwhack)etc...)), consent, or a warrant to enter a dwelling. An ECO can't just go, swing open the front door and rummage through a guys fridge and freezer because he was caught poaching. A judge will swear out a warrant and be very specific as to what is searched. Next to your body, your home is your greatest expectation of privacy. For the most part if a law enforcement officer wants to enter a house you get a warrant or consent. Preferrably a warrant. I would be willing to bet that the guys who lost their meat gave the officer consent to enter the house or they had a warrant.

I've worked along side ECO's for several years and have been extremely frustrated at just how many ways their hands are tied.

Lastly, I guess why I am so unwilling to jump a person over a picture posted is because I have been to court and seen much more damaging evidence dismissed as not being what it looks like. Unless it is a slam dunk I don't get pumped up.

Edited July 24, 2012 by cwhite

[cwhite]

ECO officers no longer exist as far as I know. That name changed to DEC officer.

So would it be DECO?

[wdswtr]

So would it be DECO?

LOL If your that into acronyms I guess. All I can tell you is last fall while fishing a plain closed officer was fishing next to me, I seen his badge under his vest. I asked him if he was an ECO and his response was no DEC officer we no longer use the name ECO and havent in a long time. Asked for my license and then moved down to the next hole fishing for violators.

[adirondackbushwhack]

I've been a law enforcement officer for 15 plus years. I have taught law courses at a law enforcement academy. Thanks to handling a canine for four years, I'm especially well versed on 4th ammendment case law. I'm not going to argue with you guys on legal authority of ECO's and other law enforcement. There are horror stories everywhere and most of them are skewed. I can promise you is that ECO's can not enter anywhere that is wooded just because.... A rumor is not probable cause. A written or oral tip from a neighbor doesn't equal probable cause most of the time. If it is posted then it is off limits for the most part. If you are seen with a rifle and hunting clothes on posted property, that is PC for a ECO to enter your property to check your hunting license, not to go snooping around for a bait pile... unless it is visible while checking the license.

There has to be an exigent circumstance (fleeing suspect, human life in danger (where your domestics come into play bushwhack)etc...)), consent, or a warrant to enter a dwelling. An ECO can't just go, swing open the front door and rummage through a guys fridge and freezer because he was caught poaching. A judge will swear out a warrant and be very specific as to what is searched. Next to your body, your home is your greatest expectation of privacy. For the most part a law enforcement officer to enter a house you get a warrant or consent. Preferrably a warrant. I would be willing to bet that the guys who lost their meat gave the officer consent to enter the house or they had a warrant.

I've worked along side ECO's for several years and have been extremely frustrated at just how many ways their hands are tied.

Lastly, I guess why I am so unwilling to jump a person over a picture posted is because I have been to court and seen much more damaging evidence dismissed as not being what it looks like. Unless it is a slam dunk I don't get pumped up.

I've seen training where DEC stated they had the ability to enter any wooded areas without warrant or PC however I haven't really worked with DEC so even though you need to get some time on the job I'll let ya slide on that one. I'm gonna guess you'er a big hat, because you work with DEC, county because you said officer.

[G-Man]

Here is the thing game belongs to the state, and dec officers are charged with protecting that game, yes they do go on private property, yes they need probable cause what constitutes that i don't know, but try growing a " funnny crop" on private property and watch how fast your rights are gone.... Or hang a deer in the back yard where tag isn't visable and watch how quick they come on "private property".

[cwhite]

Deer hanging in back yard = PC to check that the tag is properly filled out and kill is reported.

"Cash Crops" = PC to remove. Most of the cash crops are spotted from helicopters. DEC also uses helicopters at times for bait sites. A report of a guy growing weed doesn't give law enforcement to walk the property, but it will get a helicopter flying over head.

Not sure how this thread turned to law class.

Edited July 24, 2012 by cwhite

[wdswtr]

Interesting, I reported a cash crop on neighboring property and within a few hours drug task force was at my house asking me to take them to the spot. It was on neighboring land and the land owner lives out of state. Later that year I asked the land owner who came out if they contacted him and he said never heard a word. They marked the spot and said it was being monitored via satelite imagining. The neighbor on the other side of that land eventually got caught, sold out and moved.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have made 2 "crop" reports and 2 baiting reports and not one has ever been investigated.

[NFA-ADK]

Plain and simple DEC can say they saw a hunter or thought they saw a hunter and were going to check for proper tags on any property... Which gives them freedom to go anywhere...

Again report any illegal activity on any outdoor area you think they can not go and they will march in... No warrents needed. They can do this if illegal digging, dumping or anything that can effect water, or soil contamination... Spot someone dumping harmfull chemicals in a remote area that is private and posted and they will check it out...

I can understand how entering a house has much differant rules that have probably changed many times since I last check that info...

[NFA-ADK]

I have made 2 "crop" reports and 2 baiting reports and not one has ever been investigated.

While I am sure that is true, it does not affect what they can do. While we wish they could investigate everything that is reported to them, I am sure they have to prioritize thier work load. Unfourtunatly they can not check every report and or respont to every call.