Just a little venting...

[Grouse]

[Grouse]

http://news.yahoo.co...-185608674.html

You don't need to use a gun to kill a buncha kids. It was done way back in 1927. And it will be done again if killers can't get a gun. Doesn't fix the problem.

Neither does appeasing the anti's like a lot of you guys want to do.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Grouse

[d-bone20917]

No you are the problem. I get sick of explaining why idiots like you don't represent responsible gun owners. You don't seem to get the fact that your attitude is doing more harm with the anti's then anyone else on here. Quit being part of the problem.

[shawnhu]

No you are the problem. I get sick of explaining why idiots like you don't represent responsible gun owners. You don't seem to get the fact that your attitude is doing more harm with the anti's then anyone else on here. Quit being part of the problem.

Ouch.

[Grouse]

And you'll never understand why your idea of "responsible gun owner" amounts to ex-gun owner.

And I never get sick of kicking the crap out of cowards like you who talk big on internet forums, but run like a scared rabbit from a man. That's a fact for you

Edited December 22, 2012 by WNYBuckHunter

[virgil]

I thought Grouse quit the site?

[Doc]

Doc,

I stayed away from this post on purpose because I wanted to see where it would go on its own.............Believe me, I wasn't looking to convert anyone. I thought my post was fairly even-keeled, though I guess the center is still way off to the left of the average poster in these parts.

I appreciate you finally coming up with the list of what you consider to be necessary gun laws. I was surprised that it was relatively short and without a whole lot of new ideas that I have not heard before. Lol .... maybe I was hoping for some new thoughts that might turn out to be innovative and potentially effective.

When I made the request, I had no intention of trying to refute anything on your list, I just wanted to see what we're dealing with here. It's very hard to discuss things that no one wants to define. Gun control is always mentioned like it is a defined entity, when in reality there are as many versions as there are people. Lol ... my version of gun control is being able to hit what you are aiming at.

So anyway, now exactly two people have been able to articulate what they mean by "more gun control laws are needed". That is quite disappointing. Perhaps some when made to begin thinking about the details of what they were arguing for realized that they haven't a clue, and they were just going along with the feel-good crowd because it sounded good ...... lol.

I don't think you will find it any surprise that there is very little here that I can agree would have any significant effect on gun crime in a positive way. I think we have a legitimate difference of opinion on these things, but at least I have some understanding of what the issues are (for 2 people anyway). Thank you for that.

[Dad 6424]

Theres no law that is going to keep this from happening again un less they take all guns away THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN and for all of the worst case folks out there if some one wants in your house or in your car there going to get there...... Chances are there going to make it a little tuffer to buy fire arms and ammo limit the amount a clip can hold stop the public sale of the so called military (or) Assault rifle lets all say a little pryer for the ones who were lost hug the ones at home a little tighter and work as one to make this country what it once was again ONE NATION UNDER GOD FOR LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL and thats my story and im sticken to it

[Mr VJP]

An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. – Thomas Paine

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.

It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made

to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.

There are men in all ages who mean to govern well,

but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters

. . . . . but they mean to be masters."- Noah Webster (1758–1843)

Benjamin Franklin once proclaimed, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." In the case of those who would give up Essential Liberty for nothing more than the perception of a little temporary safety with more gun prohibitions, indeed they deserve neither Liberty nor safety and, ultimately, will lose both.

According to the FBI, two-thirds of murders that involve guns were perpetrated with handguns. In fact, it's pretty embarrassing for Feinstein that her own summary statement says that her ill-defined, so-called "assault weapons have been used in at least 459 incidents, resulting in 385 deaths and 455 injuries" since the ban ended, because that's less than one-half of 1 percent of all gun deaths in ...that time period. Twice as many people are killed with an assailant's hands, fists or feet -- and almost five times as many with a knife -- than with a rifle. Furthermore, the gun-death statistics that leftists tend to trot out are invariably skewed by gang-on-gang violence.

Just this year in Chicago -- Obama's hometown and a city with the toughest gun restrictions in America -- 62 young people between the ages of six and 18 have been murdered with guns -- and nearly 500 people total. Not a word from Obama.

The primary purpose of the Second Amendment isn't to preserve hunting, or sport shooting, or even self-defense, though it does protect all those things. The Founders' intent when enshrining our natural right to "keep and bear arms" was to ensure that the people could defend against a tyrannical government -- that's precisely why tyrannical governments always begin by disarming the people. Anyone who doubts this truth should ponder the awful history and the appalling body count of 20th-century communism. Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi once said, "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

[Mr VJP]

Gun prosecutions under Obama down more than 45 percent

Despite his calls for greater gun control, including a new assault weapons ban that extends to handguns, President Obama's administration has turned away from enforcing gun laws, cutting weapons prosecutions some 40 percent since a high of about 11,000 under former President Bush.

"If you are not going to enforce the laws on the books, then... don't start talking about a whole new wave of new laws," said a gun rights advocate.

In the wake of the horrific mass killing at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., Democratic lawmakers have begun preparing a new collection of anti-gun laws, including renewing the assault weapons ban, banning the purchase of high-capacity clips that spring bullets into guns, and tightening rules on who can buy weapons.

Lawmakers are banking that the public will push for new gun controls. But as with other mass shootings, polls find the public split, and blaming the shooter, not the gun. Pew Research Center for the People & the Press on Monday found that public is evenly divided over whether the Newtown shootings reflect broader problems in American society, 47 percent, or are just the acts of troubled individuals, 44 percent.

Figures collected by Syracuse University's TRAC project, the authority on prosecutions from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, shows that the administration has reduced the focus on gun crimes and instead steered prosecutors and investigators to drug crimes.

Gun prosecutions peaked at 10,937 under Bush in 2004. A current TRAC report shows that the Obama administration is prosecuting about 6,000 weapons cases.

According to an October 2011 TRAC report, "There also has been a shifting emphasis towards drug-related investigations. Since ATF-referred prosecutions peaked in FY 2005, the number of weapons prosecutions actually has fallen by 32 percent, a much higher rate than for ATF prosecutions overall. Making up the difference has been the growing number of drug cases, up by 26 percent during the same period."

In 2011, the Obama gun prosecutions hit a low for the decade, but there has been a slight uptick in prosecutions this year, said another TRAC report.

Second Amendment advocates said on background that they expect Obama to press ATF to boost prosecutions and use the Sandy Hook case, and other mass shootings, to move gun control to the top of his second term agenda. "It's in his DNA to push this issue," said one gun-rights official, speaking on background. "This would be his crowning achievement, if he can ban guns," added the official.