Crossbow Debate 2013...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Nice try though

[d-bone20917]

Antis. The pros are not forcing anything on anyone, only advocating for the choice of archery equipment. Allowing crossbows does not force anyone that doesnt want to use one, to use one. Cant say the same for the anti's argument of not allowing others to use the form of archery equipment they would like to. Ohio and other states that already allow crossbows are the proof in the pro-side's pudding.

You took that question way more serious then you needed to.

[d-bone20917]

I thought this was a pretty good read and gets to what we have been discussing here.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/bowhunting/gear-accessories/2009/04/crossbow-controversy

[Five Seasons]

Sort of, but you take it too far. The thing is, I'm NOT asking that your tradition be taken away. You can continue bow hunting with whatever you want. I'm not "getting" the point of making me participate in your tradition.

Zhe Wiz

I guess as Phade mentioned about Ohio, is that eventually it may not ruin my desire to hunt with a bow, it's that the numbers grow smaller and the tradition dies.

WOW you guys crack me up!!! same old thing back when compounds came out... everybody hated them and they were so unsporting and blah blah blah but almost EVERY one of those guys that hated em, shoot compounds today... sorry guys if you dont like xbows but they are the new thing and it is impossible to stop them from becoming the rage, just like compounds... i like em and if you dont, too bad.... you dont have too

how do you know anything about what happened when compounds came out? you're younger than me and it was before my time. And if you're not currently a bowhunter you need to try it before you knock the "tradition"

See, you arent a traditional hunter, so you are only using what YOUR definition of tradition is, and saying thats how it should be. You are also using YOUR definition of what archery is and applying it to the real definition of such.

I'm saying is that we've had an archery non-xbow season for many years. Spin it how you want but you're asking the state to change. That is, by definition changing how we do things going forward and therefore upsetting a tradition. http://dictionary.re...e/tradition?s=t

Exactly. To them its me me me, F everyone else, my way is the right way and I dont care if thats damaging to the sport overall, as long as it stays the way I like it.

It's fair for you to say this, but how is your stance not the same? You also dont care that there is a decent amount of bow hunters who are not in favor of it. So it's also me, me, me I want crossbows and who cares what the current season allows me to do. We're 2 interest groups debating a law. The anti-gun population of NY says the same about you as a gun owner. "me, me, me I want to keep my guns". All you're doing is pointing out the obvious with statements like that. And your statement that it's damaging the sport is groundless. page 2, please educate yourself on the number of bow kills. man these anti-xbow laws really seem to be hurting our sport. It must be why kills increased

http://www.dec.ny.go...2011deerrpt.pdf

same old thing..... been going ever since the first hunters decided bone arrowheads were better than stone... or that hickory makes better arrows than willow... or three fletchings are better than two... ect ect ect

EDIT: spelling

stop being silly joe. There was no sport hunting back when they used bone arrowheads. You've gone off your rocker. The increases in technology back then were welcomed by all as they hunted to feed and cloth their villages. They did whatever it took. do you think they argued over pole fishing vs net fishing when they were able to save more people from starving?

Edited January 24, 2013 by Belo

[shawnhu]

See, now why didn't you just lead with that? That right there tells me everything I need to know about your xbow opinion. Now where's my definition of elitist again? Oh yea, there it is. God, not to piss you off right from the start by using the "E" word again, but damned if your statement doesn't sound a whole lot like what an Elitist would say. If you don't do or use what I do or use, then I am right, I am better than you. Is that a good translation? Nice try on the smiley, I'm not buying it!

You're sucks worse. AND, unlike you, I'm going to defend my statement.

See, your argument is that not allowing xbows gets kids to use bows so they can hunt earlier in the season. OK, I'm all in for more kids hunting, but where we differ is, you believe that because you love traditional archery so much, that everyone else should love it too and be forced to try it. My argument is that if xbows are allowed, kids can STILL start early, they just won't be forced to use a bow, though they can if they choose to, or if their mean ol' dad forces them to. I believe that if someone loves it they WILL try it, and if they don't, they won't! I don't care if in 10 years 90% of archery hunters use an xbow and 10% use a "wussy" compound bow. What I fail to understand is why that bothers you (not just you dbone, but you anti-xbow people) so much? Keep holding on to your traditions if you want to, but don't make me do it too. Recurves, traditional and compound bows will never go away. There's always someone looking to try something new or to challenge themselves more. I may very well get in that boat someday myself. That doesn't mean I believe we should force someone to use a tool they don't want to use just so they can hunt earlier in the season.

In summary, I see your argument, but to me it's weightless. I don't care who likes and who doesn't like the way I hunt or what I use. I like my xbow, I like my 243, I like my smokeless ML and I like my semi-auto shotty. But I don't force anyone to use what I use. I tell them the pros and cons and let them decide. If bow hunting is so awesome, people will do it. Like I said before, it's not me trying to please dbone (ha!) or anyone else with how or what I hunt with. It's all about me vs. the deer and the personal challenge of putting a projectile where I want to put it when I want to put it there. (Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I'm not even going to concede that anyone can "just pull a trigger." I took a riflery class in college, there are a LOT of people who cannot. I witnessed it first hand and it wasn't pretty.) I'm not going to force any of you to hunt the way I do either.

So I'm assuming that since no one has answered my MAIN QUESTION (dbone, why do you keep ignoring it?) that the anti-xbow group must agree with me. There is nothing my use of an xbow does that will have any negative impact on your hunt with whatever bow you feel makes you a non-wuss. Is that true? Are you conceding that point? Can anyone give an example, like I did with rifles, of how my use of an xbow negatively impacts your hunt? Is there anything? At all?

If not, then stop it with the elitism, (and shouting up and down while stomping that you are not an elitist doesn't make it so. Please look up the definition) let us use xbows during bow season, keep using your whatever-makes-you-feel-like-a-non-wuss bow and get on with your hunting enjoyment. Let me get on with mine. I promise to save some deer for you, I promise to teach my son about all of his options and let him choose the one he wants, whatever bow that may be, if any.

It's amazing how vocal the anti's are on this topic. I know a lot of hunters, and only about 10-20% of them are opposed to allowing the user of xbows during archery season. We xbow proponents need to start voicing our opinion so our wonderful government doesn't mistakenly think the anti's are in the majority here. The argument always seems to be "thou shalt save the tradition". Guess what? I don't care about that tradition. Someone will keep it going just like black powder and flint locks are still going even though I'll probably never use either. Enjoy them if you want, but don't make me!

Zhe Wiz

So why not just have one season? Seems like everyone wants in on the early season.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

What did you use during Regular season and what Muzzle loader do you own?

Belo...In case you missed my question in the increasing pages.

[Five Seasons]

Belo...In case you missed my question in the increasing pages.

answered in post 132 i thought but now you rephrased it? I used a browning gold edition shotgun and I own a CVA Optima muzzleloader that was given to me as a gift.

seems like archery equipment to me

http://tac15.com/

Edited January 24, 2013 by Belo

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How does the Optima fit the tradition of the muzzleloading season? (I also use an inline) but with the legalization of Sabots and inlines it increases the effective range of the muzzle loader as well as making it easier to use in the woods. (by the way, kudos for answering honestly, since you knew where I was going)

Edited January 24, 2013 by Culvercreek hunt club

[BizCT]

I know multiple guys who shoot compounds 80-100lb+. They take game (Mule Deer, Antelope, and Elk) out past 100 yards many times.

You want to shoot 100 yards? Man up, and draw more weight and start practicing. No reason why you can't shoot whitetails at 100 yards in an open food plot with a compound.

Go hunt in the Midwest and tell them you can't shoot past 40 yards and everyone will laugh at you.

[josephmrtn]

how do you know anything about what happened when compounds came out? you're younger than me and it was before my time. And if you're not currently a bowhunter you need to try it before you knock the "tradition"

stop being silly joe. There was no sport hunting back when they used bone arrowheads. You've gone off your rocker. The increases in technology back then were welcomed by all as they hunted to feed and cloth their villages. They did whatever it took. do you think they argued over pole fishing vs net fishing when they were able to save more people from starving?

i know because ive heard about it many many times from older hunters... im not knocking the "tradition" if you want to hunt that way thats your choice but i have the right to hunt my own way with my own equipment and no one on earth can change that... i fully support compound bow hunters as well as recurve but if i want a xbow no one can stop me from building or buying one...

those people were not starving, in many ways they were smarter than us!!! and yes i do believe that they argued over things like this, they were humans just like us, and all the humans ive ever seen dont like changes, unless of course they think they will benefit themselves, it dont matter if its good for other people or not... for example in the midieval ages crossbows were invented to make it easier than a "traditional" bow in warfare... actually xbows have been around hundreds of years longer than compound bows... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbows

no im not off my rocker im a perfectly sane guy who believes some things that you dont like or agree with...

[shawnhu]

i know because ive heard about it many many times from older hunters... im not knocking the "tradition" if you want to hunt that way thats your choice but i have the right to hunt my own way with my own equipment and no one on earth can change that... i fully support compound bow hunters as well as recurve but if i want a xbow no one can stop me from building or buying one...

those people were not starving, in many ways they were smarter than us!!! and yes i do believe that they argued over things like this, they were humans just like us, and all the humans ive ever seen dont like changes, unless of course they think they will benefit themselves, it dont matter if its good for other people or not... for example in the midieval ages crossbows were invented to make it easier than a "traditional" bow in warfare... actually xbows have been around hundreds of years longer than compound bows... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbows

no im not off my rocker im a perfectly sane guy who believes some things that you dont like or agree with...

Since crossbows have been around for so long, why were they not included in the original law to allow them in the archery season?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Since crossbows have been around for so long, why were they not included in the original law to allow them in the archery season?

NYB

[Five Seasons]

i know because ive heard about it many many times from older hunters... im not knocking the "tradition" if you want to hunt that way thats your choice but i have the right to hunt my own way with my own equipment and no one on earth can change that... i fully support compound bow hunters as well as recurve but if i want a xbow no one can stop me from building or buying one...

those people were not starving, in many ways they were smarter than us!!! and yes i do believe that they argued over things like this, they were humans just like us, and all the humans ive ever seen dont like changes, unless of course they think they will benefit themselves, it dont matter if its good for other people or not... for example in the midieval ages crossbows were invented to make it easier than a "traditional" bow in warfare... actually xbows have been around hundreds of years longer than compound bows... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbows

no im not off my rocker im a perfectly sane guy who believes some things that you dont like or agree with...

A DEC officer can and will stop you from hunting the way you want. I enjoy your passion. It's a breath of fresh air from a generation of lazy kids, but you're not hunting to feed and cloth your family. This is now a sport. Sports have rules. Some are for safety, others to preserve "the game" and furthermore some are to make the game challenging (wooden instead of aluminum bats). And yes, when advocating to change the season i have grown to love you will be imposing on the tradition. The younger generations will gravitate towards the "cool" xbow. Ohio is the best example of this.

Joe,

Why do you personally want to use a crossbow over a compound? Why have you only gun hunted to date?

[Five Seasons]

NYB

the organization that originated in 1991? Really?

http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/history.htm

Edited January 24, 2013 by Belo

[shawnhu]

NYB

Lol, you're something else Culver.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Lol, you're something else Culver.

Sorry, had to. Couldn't resist...LOL

[shawnhu]

Sorry, had to. Couldn't resist...LOL

It's fine. I'm just playing devils advocate, I don't have a stake in either weapon, as I have access to, xbow, compound and recurve. But as far as NYB, I've only heard about their general stance on the subject, never looked into what they are about. Just hearsay.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

They post it in the open. THere is nothing secretive about it. I will give them that. Other than wantig my father to be able, I have no interest in using one to hunt with. I have shot them before and I will stick with my Hoyt.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the organization that originated in 1991? Really?

http://www.newyorkbo...com/history.htm

It was tounge in cheek. But the mechanical releas so many use today wasn't in the original law as well that wasn't added I thik in the late 70's just before I started bow hunting. There has been a lot of progressiion in the tradition you keep speaking of.

[josephmrtn]

A DEC officer can and will stop you from hunting the way you want. I enjoy your passion. It's a breath of fresh air from a generation of lazy kids, but you're not hunting to feed and cloth your family. This is now a sport. Sports have rules. Some are for safety, others to preserve "the game" and furthermore some are to make the game challenging (wooden instead of aluminum bats). And yes, when advocating to change the season i have grown to love you will be imposing on the tradition. The younger generations will gravitate towards the "cool" xbow. Ohio is the best example of this.

Joe,

Why do you personally want to use a crossbow over a compound? Why have you only gun hunted to date?

No he cant, it is my choice to obey the laws, and i have chosen to obey them.

the rules can change at times....

several reasons: first because i only got into deer hunting two years ago and crossbows have only been legal one year, second bows cost money and i dont have much of that, so i bought a gun first (this past year), my first year of hunting i just borrowed a gun, third im not SURE i would choose a xbow over a compound but xbows are easier in my opinion... fourth xbows ARE "cool" they are lots of fun to shoot (my cousins have some that we shoot) altho compounds are fun too (ive shot both)

i cant say i never will use a compound but i made it a personal goal to 1st: shoot a deer, 2nd: shoot a buck, 3rd: move on to shoot bigger and better deer and also possibly get into bow hunting... those are just my personal goals so far ive gotten 1 and 2 accomplished

im not sure what you are saying that i will be "imposing" on your "tradition"

please explain...

[shawnhu]

They post it in the open. THere is nothing secretive about it. I will give them that. Other than wantig my father to be able, I have no interest in using one to hunt with. I have shot them before and I will stick with my Hoyt.

I have no interest in the organization.

[Five Seasons]

It was tounge in cheek. But the mechanical releas so many use today wasn't in the original law as well that wasn't added I thik in the late 70's just before I started bow hunting. There has been a lot of progressiion in the tradition you keep speaking of.

i agree with that. I have consented to the fact that the recurve has transformed and been replaced by the compound which has gotten better and more advanced. I guess it's just hte fact that the fundamentals of the bow are still the same. Bowhunting is still being quiet, close to the game and knowing when to draw and release. the xbow covers all that except the draw and when shooting from a bipod or rest it falls on its face. For what it's worth my uncle takes some monsters out of Rush every year and still hunts with fingers, My father only switched to a release 3 years ago.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You took that question way more serious then you needed to.

Just wanted to give you a truthful answer!

I did laugh at first though.

[Five Seasons]

I have no interest in the organization.

dont let their stance on crossbows give you a picture of this evil anti-hunter organization. http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/accomplishments.html

[Culvercreek hunt club]

For what it's worth my uncle takes some monsters out of Rush every year and still hunts with fingers, My father only switched to a release 3 years ago.

LIAR!!! there are no big deer there. never has been never will be.