hatch

[tda]

when do turkey eggs hatch?

[Jrs5144]

 

took this this morning.

 

[growalot]

I believe 28 days to incubate...it depends on when they started the laying process...

[Pygmy]

A study conducted on the Connecticut Hill State Forest a few years back indicated that the avergae hatching date was June 11th.

[Lawdwaz]

They're going to have webbed feet this year, IF they hatch.

 

Quack quack..................................................................................<grin>

[Pygmy]

 

I believe 28 days to incubate...it depends on when they started the laying process...

28 days is correct for incubation, give or take a day or two.

Rather than depending on when they begin the LAYING process, it depends on when they begin the INCUBATION process...

A hen may lay a clutch over a period of 2-4 weeks, but they do not begin to develop until she actually begins setting, after which they usually hatch within a 24 hour period about 28 days later..

I'm sure that's what Growie meant...I'm not trying to be picky, just trying to clarify the process for some of the folks that might not be as familiar with poultry as old country folks like Growie and myself....

Edited June 9, 2013 by Pygmy

[Water Rat]

 28 days is correct for incubation, give or take a day or two.

Rather than depending on when they begin the LAYING process, it depends on when they begin the INCUBATION process...

A hen may lay a clutch over a period of 2-4 weeks, but they do not begin to develop until she actually begins setting, after which they usually hatch within a 24 hour period about 28 days later..

I'm sure that's what Growie meant...I'm not trying to be picky, just trying to clarify the process for some of the folks that might not be as familiar with poultry as old country folks like Growie and myself....

When would you estimate the poults hatched in Jrs5144's photo.......approximately May 13th then ?

[Pygmy]

 

When would you estimate the poults hatched in Jrs5144's photo.......approximately May 13th then ?

They look like they are past the down stage, so they are probably at least 3 weeks old..

Probably most years some poults hatch as early as May 1, while others ( mostly renests) could hatch in July.. The June 11th date was just an average..

[tda]

hopefully this wet weather breaks and doesn't create another bad hatch. Seemed like population was just rebounding this year, where i hunt anyway.

[landtracdeerhunter]

Once they get a few weeks on them, they have a higher chance to survive, the weather conditions, anyways.

One advangage of the wet weather, they get to feast on worms, driven to the surface by wet conditions. Large amounts of protein make for strong brood.

Edited June 10, 2013 by landtracdeerhunter

[Lawdwaz]

So once the hen starts laying the eggs, she'll lay one a day or so for 2-4 weeks?

 

During this period she spends the night on a limb?  If so, then when she starts the "setting" process does she sit on the nest all night (as I suspect) or does she hit the limb for the evening?

 

I'll admit serious ignorance in this and many other things in life but do have plans for an evening or two at a Holiday Inn soon.................................<grin>

[landtracdeerhunter]

So once the hen starts laying the eggs, she'll lay one a day or so for 2-4 weeks?

 

During this period she spends the night on a limb?  If so, then when she starts the "setting" process does she sit on the nest all night (as I suspect) or does she hit the limb for the evening?

 

I'll admit serious ignorance in this and many other things in life but do have plans for an evening or two at a Holiday Inn soon.................................<grin>

One egg every other day. The eggs have to maintain a temp of between 98 and 101 degrees constant, (body temp). If the temp of the embro falls below 98 degrees, it will die, ( even when the hen feeds). It's an all nighter for the hen on the nest. Darkness is a turkeys worst nightmare for preditors.

She will also sit there motionless, for hours upon hours, sometimes for a few days, before feeding. One can tell when she has left the nest, because she will be in a different sitting position.

Edited June 10, 2013 by landtracdeerhunter

[Lawdwaz]

Damn........Mother Nature sure set the bar high for them.

[mike rossi]

One egg every other day. The eggs have to maintain a temp of between 98 and 101 degrees constant, (body temp). If the temp of the embro falls below 98 degrees, it will die, ( even when the hen feeds). It's an all nighter for the hen on the nest. Darkness is a turkeys worst nightmare for preditors.

She will also sit there motionless, for hours upon hours, sometimes for a few days, before feeding. One can tell when she has left the nest, because she will be in a different sitting position.

I never heard one egg every other day, but maybe your right, but I thought it was one egg per day. About the temperature, the eggs do not have to be kept warm until incubation starts. So if the hen lays a partial nest and it gets cold while she is away feeding, it doesn't kill the eggs. As a matter of fact, you can refrigerate eggs for days and then put them into an incubator and they will hatch fine. After all the eggs are layed and incubation starts it may be a different story, but one would assume the hen will delay her own feeding until it warms up. Birds can go 30 days without food during severe cold, so I imagine a nesting hen can put off eating for some time as well.

 

Stop reading now if tree-hugger is part of your vocabulary and go do some bench presses or something... The hen also has the ability to delay fertilization - so even if mating occurs during nasty weather, she can delay pregnancy until conditions are favorable. ( weasels, skunks and other mammals can do almost the same thing, for the same reasons, delay implantation after fertilization}.The hen also is wired to select nest sites in favorable habitat and sun exposure - if the habitat is available and not occupied by another bird. Getting off topic a little; one dysfunctional habit of hens is there tendency to nest against tree bases. They will use grass fields and burrow under brush piles when available, but they often nest against trees. Well, even the DEC neglects to mention squirrels (red, gray/black, fox, woodchuck) are known nest predators which outnumber coyotes & fishers and even the turkeys themselves... With the exception of woodchucks, which do climb trees by the way, and are squirrels, those critters run up & down trees constantly. Those behaviors make one wonder if squirrels are not a population limiting factor for turkeys. I think if standing fallow fields were available, turkeys would choose them first, and nest success would be higher. But a study like that is a waste of money you know, just kill all the coyotes & fishers, that will do it....

Edited June 10, 2013 by mike rossi

[landtracdeerhunter]

I never heard one egg every other day, but maybe your right, but I thought it was one egg per day. About the temperature, the eggs do not have to be kept warm until incubation starts. So if the hen lays a partial nest and it gets cold while she is away feeding, it doesn't kill the eggs. As a matter of fact, you can refrigerate eggs for days and then put them into an incubator and they will hatch fine. After all the eggs are layed and incubation starts it may be a different story, but one would assume the hen will delay her own feeding until it warms up. Birds can go 30 days without food during severe cold, so I imagine a nesting hen can put off eating for some time as well.

 

Stop reading now if tree-hugger is part of your vocabulary and go do some bench presses or something... The hen also has the ability to delay fertilization - so even if mating occurs during nasty weather, she can delay pregnancy until conditions are favorable. ( weasels, skunks and other mammals can do almost the same thing, for the same reasons, delay implantation after fertilization}.The hen also is wired to select nest sites in favorable habitat and sun exposure - if the habitat is available and not occupied by another bird. Getting off topic a little; one dysfunctional habit of hens is there tendency to nest against tree bases. They will use grass fields and burrow under brush piles when available, but they often nest against trees. Well, even the DEC neglects to mention squirrels (red, gray/black, fox, woodchuck) are known nest predators which outnumber coyotes & fishers and even the turkeys themselves... With the exception of woodchucks, which do climb trees by the way, and are squirrels, those critters run up & down trees constantly. Those behaviors make one wonder if squirrels are not a population limiting factor for turkeys. I think if standing fallow fields were available, turkeys would choose them first, and nest success would be higher. But a study like that is a waste of money you know, just kill all the coyotes & fishers, that will do it....

A bird has the ability to(cycle) an egg daily in an excellent enviroment, where protein is abundant,length of daylight, and ideal stress free enviroments. Not to say a turkey could have the ability to cycle daily egg output in an ideal, but the rule would be every other day.

I didn't know about the fertilization delay. Enjoy your input.

[growalot]

Rather than depending on when they begin the LAYING process, it depends on when they begin the INCUBATION process...

 

Thanks Pygmy...That's  actually what I meant...you need to add the # of days it took to finish the "clutch" to the incubation time to determine when the chicks will hatch

 

You know me...thoughts in mind don't always make it to the key board...LOL

 

[mike rossi]

A bird has the ability to(cycle) an egg daily in an excellent enviroment, where protein is abundant,length of daylight, and ideal stress free enviroments. Not to say a turkey could have the ability to cycle daily egg output in an ideal, but the rule would be every other day.

I didn't know about the fertilization delay. Enjoy your input.

What you are describing sounds like (another} built in mechanism animals have to counter less than ideal conditions. But some things in nature don't work perfect. The habit of nesting against trees may be an example. A prediction is that when the restoration of turkeys, which were depleted from market hunting began, biologists were assuming turkeys were old growth, big woods birds - because that is were the remaining birds existed. However, when birds were restored, they did better in other habitats. Those  remnant birds probably were there not because that habitat favored survival, but because market hunters couldn't hit the mountains as hard. We transferred more birds into these suboptimal habitats and even introduced turkeys to areas that they did were not indigenous to. The birds expanded all over  until the populations in the suboptimal areas experienced "population contraction" (what may be going on right now, per the DEC) mean while, and  to no surprise, bird populations in more suitable habitat has not shown the same decline. One explanation or partial explanation why that habitat {woodland, mountain with plenty of oak acorns) might be less suitable is the presence of squirrels and / or the absence of fallow fields along with the tendency of turkeys to nest against tree bases. In any event, demanding the DEC focus on one factor or one predator, isn't constructive and is going to make sportsmen look ignorant to the non shooting conservationists. (Which actually is a fair assessment in all too many cases}...

Edited June 10, 2013 by mike rossi

[Jennifer]

Absolutely, studies have shown that rodent predation on bird nests-- both eggs and baby birds-- may be much higher than previously thought. I don't think it's a stretch to say that rodent predation on unattended turkey nests is a factor. Poults, being Precocial (born with eyes open, feathers, and ready to go) have less to fear from squirrels and the like than nest-bound Altricial (naked, blind, helpless) birds but then they have a whole different type of predator to worry about.

 

Predation of turkey nests/eggs and poults is less than straightforward. I wish it was as easy as pointing at one predator, but it's not.

[mike rossi]

Absolutely, studies have shown that rodent predation on bird nests-- both eggs and baby birds-- may be much higher than previously thought. I don't think it's a stretch to say that rodent predation on unattended turkey nests is a factor. Poults, being Precocial (born with eyes open, feathers, and ready to go) have less to fear from squirrels and the like than nest-bound Altricial (naked, blind, helpless) birds but then they have a whole different type of predator to worry about.

 

Predation of turkey nests/eggs and poults is less than straightforward. I wish it was as easy as pointing at one predator, but it's not.

Even though precocial, the hen lays one egg per day for an average of 14 eggs. During that laying period, the hen is not incubating or constantly around the nest protecting it , so partial clutches are just sitting there, mostly unattended, for an average of two weeks. How long would a loaf of bread last at the base of a tree? I disagree, I think the nesting behavior of turkeys makes them highly vulnerable to squirrel predation. Another thing to keep in mind is that the entire clutch or the hen does not have to be destroyed to impact populations, it only takes consistently smaller average clutch sizes.

 

There are many other predators, and not all of them are furbearers either. However the DEC has harvest data on furbearers from which pop trends can be demonstrated. However that is a weak assumption considering all of the types of potential turkey predators.  The nature of the sportsman  is to blame the predator that is either the biggest or ones he is connected to, and the report on the DEC website only mentions furbearers.

 

I could have mentioned a variety of birds and reptiles and domestic cats or other rodents. But I think the nest selection behavior of turkeys coupled with the behavior and abundance of squirrels might come into play, especially considering that the turkey population may be "contracting", per the DEC report. An unsustainably high turkey population which responded to restoration efforts in marginal habitat were turkeys nest along tree bases and squirrel populations are high might just be past its best days... The population may be contracting in those areas due to squirrels as the limiting factor. Since the DEC uses harvest data and archery hunter bird counts to estimate turkey population, the data may be biased and not reflect the role of habitat. Reporting to the WMU does not address the habitat component.

 

I agree with you and wouldn't point at one predator or predation in general, but I certainly would look at the possible interaction I suggested above. I also said elsewhere the report doesn't mention pesticides, herbicides, and lead pellets. All of these add up. Another thing I cited was the relationship between the initiation of youth hunts and noticeable drops in turkey numbers. Gobbler harvest should not effect population (sexually dimorphic with a polygynyous mating system- as I am sure you know}; but the timing of {regular) spring turkey seasons reflects a consensus from studies of how to reduce hen mortality and mating disruption. NY DEC does follow that standard protocol for the regular spring, but it seems that the 2 - day youth hunt might be smack down at exactly a bad time????

Edited June 14, 2013 by mike rossi

[Jennifer]

Even though precocial, the hen lays one egg per day for an average of 14 eggs. During that laying period, the hen is not incubating or constantly around the nest protecting it , so partial clutches are just sitting there, mostly unattended, for an average of two weeks. How long would a loaf of bread last at the base of a tree? I disagree, I think the nesting behavior of turkeys makes them highly vulnerable to squirrel predation. Another thing to keep in mind is that the entire clutch or the hen does not have to be destroyed to impact populations, it only takes consistently smaller average clutch sizes.

 

Sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding. My comment about turkeys being precocial was only indicating that the majority of squirrel predation probably stops once they eggs hatch out (once the poults are mobile, the predator ballgame changes for them, as you mentioned). I agree with you that before hatching, and especially before incubation, there is a huge chance for turkey eggs to be predated upon by squirrels if the hen is nesting at the base of a tree.

 

Mortality rate is high enough after they hatch. As you said, anything that reduces the clutch size also weighs in. Smaller clutches mean that any predation of the poults or young birds takes even more birds out of the equation.

[mike rossi]

Sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding. My comment about turkeys being precocial was only indicating that the majority of squirrel predation probably stops once they eggs hatch out (once the poults are mobile, the predator ballgame changes for them, as you mentioned). I agree with you that before hatching, and especially before incubation, there is a huge chance for turkey eggs to be predated upon by squirrels if the hen is nesting at the base of a tree.

 

Mortality rate is high enough after they hatch. As you said, anything that reduces the clutch size also weighs in. Smaller clutches mean that any predation of the poults or young birds takes even more birds out of the equation.

I understand now and would agree with that.

[growalot]

So this is whats happening here...I've been hearing a lot of vocals from hens all over the property for the last several days...but for the last two days one particular hen calling from fly down to roost ...non stop...she actually sounds hoarse ...she'd moved from the lease next door to right behind the house yesterday morning....I told Mr B yesterday I was surprised a fox hadn't gotten her yet...hhhmm not a peep this morning...hopefully she wondered across the street ...where I can't hear from here...

This tells me we will see a second late hatch  if the weather ever changes...but night temps are still hitting mid forties some times and we still have a lot of rain in the long term forecast...So ?????

[mike rossi]

So this is whats happening here...I've been hearing a lot of vocals from hens all over the property for the last several days...but for the last two days one particular hen calling from fly down to roost ...non stop...she actually sounds hoarse ...she'd moved from the lease next door to right behind the house yesterday morning....I told Mr B yesterday I was surprised a fox hadn't gotten her yet...hhhmm not a peep this morning...hopefully she wondered across the street ...where I can't hear from here...

This tells me we will see a second late hatch  if the weather ever changes...but night temps are still hitting mid forties some times and we still have a lot of rain in the long term forecast...So ?????

They will keep trying to re-nest until the hours of daylight (photoperiod) decreases. When the days get shorter it shuts down the hormones needed not only for mating but also for laying and nesting. (Similar to providing artificial light to chickens and removing eggs keeps them laying). If the unfavorable weather persists until the days shorten beyond the birds' threshold, the hormones shut off , and  they lose opportunity to re-nest, even though they very likely have already mated.

Edited June 18, 2013 by mike rossi

[Five Seasons]

i've found about a half dozen over the last few weeks that were crushed. Something got to them. bastards.

[growalot]

I still have a couple of hens here wondering and yelping like mad...the turkeys must still have good #'s for the woods have been tore up all over...yet nothing on the cams...but I see that the WR is starting to get trampled a bit...I have a wild grain that spread from the hunting camp next door...not sure what it is... but they were big into the WTFed. so I assume the seed came from them...all seed heads have been eaten...