Some people don't get it .....

[letinmfly]

Due to.... please correct me on county..I may be wrong...Sullivan County deer feeding ruling the DEC was suppose to change the wording of the feeding ban law ...did they ever do that?...For it was my understanding that to abait further court actions they were...backing off the enforcement of the existing law in the rest of the state...I ask this knowing full well the difference between feeding and baiting..just tom avoid that discussion. 

 

To my knowledge is was changed.

 

Here's my take on feeding deer...

 

Over the years we have created a "dumb" deer herd.  With all the people that were feeding the deer, the deer had no need to learn how to survive the winters.  As far as looking for food and browse.  They just needed to travel from house to house of the people feeding them.

When feeding was banned these same deer had lost the ability and knowledge of searching out food for survival.  Hence quite a few deer of starvation thanks to us feeding them.  I was guilty of feeding them and when I was enlightened by a wildlife biologist, I stopped feeding them.  This was when feeding was still legal.

 

I know people, in my area, still feed them.  I also know that feeding/baiting of deer will never be completely done away with.

Until everyone is of the same mind state this is just one of those issues that will be revisited again and again.

Edited July 5, 2013 by letinmfly

[Doc]

Due to.... please correct me on county..I may be wrong...Sullivan County deer feeding ruling the DEC was suppose to change the wording of the feeding ban law ...did they ever do that?...For it was my understanding that to abait further court actions they were...backing off the enforcement of the existing law in the rest of the state...I ask this knowing full well the difference between feeding and baiting..just tom avoid that discussion. 

What you have stated is exactly what I read in New York Outdoor News when the Sullivan County ruling came down. Have they made the law changes? .... I doubt it or somebody would have mentioned it. What is the hold-up? .... I have no idea.

[phade]

Baiting in most instances of todays bannings are related to disease. Some older ones were sporting based.

On tv doc, you must think they are baiting on ground like yours or mine. They are baiting on large expansive low pressure ground. That doesn't exist in our world. So what you project isn't apples to apples.

People that feel compelled to bait becuase the next guy is, are simply ignorant. Bill vale, the eberharts et al have etched our careers disproving you need to bait in Heavy bait states such as michigan. In fact they often go into detail how they shoot bucks out from under baiters. Its really not that hard to figure out. People that run bait often overhunt, leave too much scent, hunt wrong winds, etc. Im not saying they are lazy or bad hunters...just that they give a tell to mature bucks.You can effectively hunt based on someone baiting..

Edited July 5, 2013 by phade

[Doc]

Baiting in most instances of todays bannings are related to disease. Some older ones were sporting based.

On tv doc, you must think they are baiting on ground like yours or mine. They are baiting on large expansive low pressure ground. That doesn't exist in our world. So what you project isn't apples to apples.

People that feel compelled to bait becuase the next guy is, are simply ignorant. Bill vale, the eberharts et al have etched our careers disproving you need to bait in Heavy bait states such as michigan. In fact they often go into detail how they shoot bucks out from under baiters. Its really not that hard to figure out. People that run bait often overhunt, leave too much scent, hunt wrong winds, etc. Im not saying they are lazy or bad hunters...just that they give a tell to mature bucks.You can effectively hunt based on someone baiting..

Sorry ..... I'm not buying it. Yes, just like any strategy in hunting, you can always find a few examples of those that don't know what they are doing. So what? That still doesn't mean that it isn't effective and an huge advantage. As far as it being more effective in one state and not in another, that makes a nice sounding theory but it is not terribly believable or convincing.

[jjb4900]

Sorry ..... I'm not buying it. Yes, just like any strategy in hunting, you can always find a few examples of those that don't know what they are doing. So what? That still doesn't mean that it isn't effective and an huge advantage. As far as it being more effective in one state and not in another, that makes a nice sounding theory but it is not terribly believable or convincing.

back when feeding deer was legal, I could go months without putting food out, and as soon as a pile of corn was dumped on the lawn we would have deer coming in all times of day to eat......maybe not mature bucks, but does and smaller bucks came in like crazy..........it would get to the point where if we saw a doe near the house, I could walk past her, go to the shed, get the food and dump the corn 20 yards from her...........to say it offers no advantage is silly, especially if your looking to shoot any deer.

[Doc]

back when feeding deer was legal, I could go months without putting food out, and as soon as a pile of corn was dumped on the lawn we would have deer coming in all times of day to eat......maybe not mature bucks, but does and smaller bucks came in like crazy..........it would get to the point where if we saw a doe near the house, I could walk past her, go to the shed, get the food and dump the corn 20 yards from her...........to say it offers no advantage is silly, especially if your looking to shoot any deer.

See, that's what makes me crazy when it comes to the subject of baiting. Deer are apparently quite easily domesticated, or at least semi-domesticated, as per your experience with feeding. Is that the kind of thing that we think is right in the name of hunting? For some reason that just rubs me completely the wrong way. Maybe it shouldn't, I don't know, but it just does. I keep thinking that if a guy can't get his deer without changing the wild nature of the critter, what the hell does that say about his hunting ability? And if the mature bucks that come into bait are fewer in number, it occurs to me that that may simply be a case of there being a whole lot fewer of them. And of course as you pointed out, nobody says that those involved with baiting are really after the trophy animals. In most cases (according to harvest records)any deer will do. Just pick out a nice fat one .... lol.

[jjb4900]

See, that's what makes me crazy when it comes to the subject of baiting. Deer are apparently quite easily domesticated, or at least semi-domesticated, as per your experience with feeding. Is that the kind of thing that we think is right in the name of hunting? For some reason that just rubs me completely the wrong way. Maybe it shouldn't, I don't know, but it just does. I keep thinking that if a guy can't get his deer without changing the wild nature of the critter, what the hell does that say about his hunting ability? And if the mature bucks that come into bait are fewer in number, it occurs to me that that may simply be a case of there being a whole lot fewer of them. And of course as you pointed out, nobody says that those involved with baiting are really after the trophy animals. In most cases (according to harvest records)any deer will do. Just pick out a nice fat one .... lol.

and as in my earlier post about my friends non-hunting parents who fed the deer regularly, the 1 or 2 deer who came on a daily basis, quickly turned into 8-10 who would come to eat and before long just saw no reason to leave....they would bed within sight of the house and after awhile, had little fear of humans.....to say that baiting doesn't affect deer movement and throw off their natural habits is ridiculous.

[phade]

I make no qualms about the state difference. What you see on TV isn't the type of lands we generally hunt.

[jjb4900]

the bottom line is baiting / feeding is illegal in NY......end of argument as far as NY is concerned.

[PREDATE]

I don't see it as, baiting = illegal. The real factor is why it is illegal. CWD is why. It has been found in NY and PA. 

 

To put it plainly, "baiting" is a selfish act. 1. for the increased hunting odds,especially if the hunter has the only bait station for miles. 2. also to the younger generations of hunters if they have to hunt a herd of infectious deer. 

CWD may be "not known to infect humans" as of now, but would any hunter knowingly sink their teeth into a backstrap that was infected? I'll venture to say the answer would be no. So in this case, "minding thy own business" can be detrimental to the whole hunting community.

[Doc]

I don't see it as, baiting = illegal. The real factor is why it is illegal. CWD is why. It has been found in NY and PA. 

 

To put it plainly, "baiting" is a selfish act. 1. for the increased hunting odds,especially if the hunter has the only bait station for miles. 2. also to the younger generations of hunters if they have to hunt a herd of infectious deer. 

CWD may be "not known to infect humans" as of now, but would any hunter knowingly sink their teeth into a backstrap that was infected? I'll venture to say the answer would be no. So in this case, "minding thy own business" can be detrimental to the whole hunting community.

I have no doubt that activities that concentrate deer onto an exact specific spot cannot be a real healthy thing to do. This is yet another issue that I have with baiting/feeding, and apparently the DEC is convinced its not a real good idea too. I do not always understand some of the DEC positions on various topics, but I will trust their judgment on issues of deer biology and herd health. And yes, in this regard, we are all potentially impacted by this guy that Eddie was talking to. And maybe speaking up is minding our own business .... lol.