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[phade]

If he's happy...that is all that matters. I don't think anyone would genuinely disagree he'd be happy with one of these bucks.

Something is still amiss biz...even in the most skewed ratios there's a 2.5 mixed in... you seem to have no clear 2.5 yo bucks. You are missing something or that property is missing something to the point experienced deer are not crossing.

[BizCT]

Maybe some of the 4's and 5's are 2.5 and not 1.5? Or I'm just missing the older bucks? One thing to note is that I have zero pics of fawns in CT and barely any Doe pics. Almost all my pics are these various young bucks. Also, the landowner is cutting trees down and working literally like 200 yards from this cam. Up on a hill.

This cam is in like a creek bottom almost. Where I plan to sit is a rock cliff, almost like being in a treeatand, its a 15' straight down drop to where these deer are. 17-35 yard shot.

Regarding waiting 2-3 years, no guarantee I will be allowed to hunt this property then. The house is for sale.

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[Danny]

Don't think it was worth the $500 I could be wrong but I think you can do better on public land

[Danny]

What I don't understand that even though these are young deer in the pics they still lack any growth, they look like Delaware county specials, forkhorns ect.. Even year old spikehorns on the island sport 8-12" tall spikes, 6 pointers typically have baskets even with the ears, I guess we are just lucky to have some great public spots with great bucks

[BizCT]

Id rather 6 pt young bucks than 12" spikes lol

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[Danny]

I was simply stating better genetics, I'd rather basket 6's than scrappy ones

[Carbonelement]

who cares if u lose it, if you want meat shoot a doe and if u want horns wait for the big ones what are you going to do with a bunch of dink 4 or 6 pointers?  wait it out i have spots where all year its peanuts and in dec i get slammers coming through.  its truly not that hard to find land. 

[BizCT]

I'm happy to see variety of bucks. Again this thread wasn't about what I should or shouldn't shoot. A 6pt would be my 2nd biggest whitetail. I got 2 buck tags, 3 if I buy my gun license....ill do what I feel is best.

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[BizCT]

This thread can be closed.

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[phade]

I was simply stating better genetics, I'd rather basket 6's than scrappy ones

 

Genetics? Seriously? On 1.5 y/o?

 

Birth date, food/water, and enviroment are the drivers there...genetics is a back seat passenger in determining a 1.5 y/o rack.

[phade]

who cares if u lose it, if you want meat shoot a doe and if u want horns wait for the big ones what are you going to do with a bunch of dink 4 or 6 pointers?  wait it out i have spots where all year its peanuts and in dec i get slammers coming through.  its truly not that hard to find land. 

 

That's a bit uncalled for. No need to push your belief system onto him.

 

If he's genuinely happy, which I believe he is, with a 6 point, then so be it. He hasn't even taken a buck with an Xbow yet.

 

While I myself now tend to target older class bucks compared to the masses, I equally share in the belief that those who have a wider target range has just as much to say about what they want to shoot. 

 

You don't educate anyone when you use the term dink and put other hunters down. C'mon, you should know better than that.

[Danny]

Genetics pays some role in a 1.5yr old deers potential, deer don't gain genetics they are born with it  , a 1.5 yr old long island deer that has 10" spikes has more potential next year than one in the southern tier with 2" spikes

[phade]

Genetics pays some role in a 1.5yr old deers potential, deer don't gain genetics they are born with it  , a 1.5 yr old long island deer that has 10" spikes has more potential next year than one in the southern tier with 2" spikes

 

FACEPALM!

 

How do you know this? I'd love to learn more about this. Don't you want to take out those with bad genes, too?

Edited August 30, 2013 by phade

[Danny]

listen i'm not here to argue like 98% of the kids on this website, if you don't think genetics pay any role in a deers antler potential go crawl back into a hole. or cut and paste something you found from another website to prove me wrong

[Danny]

Three things contribute to antler size – nutrition, genetics, and age. antler size is a heritable trait

[phade]

listen i'm not here to argue like 98% of the kids on this website, if you don't think genetics pay any role in a deers antler potential go crawl back into a hole. or cut and paste something you found from another website to prove me wrong

 

Give the deer superman's genetics, I don't care. A 1.5 is still influenced more by birth date, food/water, and environment. To even reference genetics when talking about the relative size of free range 1.5s is doing so not based on sound management science or principles - it's just plain silly.

Edited August 30, 2013 by phade

[phade]

Three things contribute to antler size – nutrition, genetics, and age. antler size is a heritable trait

 

I must be mistaken, I am wrong. A 1.5 genetics are the major reason betwen a 10" spike and a 2" spike.

 

I appreciate your effort and the help for Biz, but please understand, you shouldn't even be thinking genetics on 1.5s.

 

Do you believe in management bucks or cull bucks for removing bad genes?

Edited August 30, 2013 by phade

[Danny]

no it's virtually impossible to remove bad gentics by culling bucks, genetics are carried by does as well

 

so if a deer with good genes at 1.5 yrs old carries more headgear than a 2.5 yr old would you still say that's due to birthdate?

[Danny]

the deer at 4yrs old carries the same genetics as when he was 1.5

[phade]

no it's virtually impossible to remove bad gentics by culling bucks, genetics are carried by does as well

 

so if a deer with good genes at 1.5 yrs old carries more headgear than a 2.5 yr old would you still say that's due to birthdate?

 

Answer me this...how do you know a wild free range 1.5 has good genes?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Nutrition is a bigger factor than genetics in a wild deer, especially in a state like NY where supplemental feeding, minerals, etc are illegal. Take two deer from the same genetic line, put one out here in WNY farm country, and let him grow to 5 years old.Then, take the other, and drop him in the Catskills region, and let him grow to the same age. Bettcha I can tell you which one will have the biggest body size and rack.

Talking genetics in a wild deer herd is pointless.

[Danny]

I think age plays just as big of a factor in your example, Catskill deer are shot when they have 3" spikes, what nutrition is more abundant in the far northern Adirondack region than there is in Catskills? Weather is far milder in the Catskills than adk. Plenty of farmland in the southern tier.

[Danny]

Yet northern ADK deer blow away Catskill deer in both body size and racks,

[phade]

Adk deer...the ones seen or publicized...are typically old ghosts that are finally shot. Not really a genes thing.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I think age plays just as big of a factor in your example, Catskill deer are shot when they have 3" spikes, what nutrition is more abundant in the far northern Adirondack region than there is in Catskills? Weather is far milder in the Catskills than adk. Plenty of farmland in the southern tier.

 

With the situation I described, age has nothing to do with it, as we would be comparing the same genetics, the same age, just different nutrition.

 

As far as ADK deer vs Catskill Deer, are you are talking about a 1 1/2 year old vs an older deer, or animals of the same age? You have to remember Bergmanns rule, which basically says the further north you go, the larger the animal becomes. When talking catskills vs dacks, even though they arent that far apart in miles, the climate type is totally different, which explains the bigger body sizes, etc.