Would you vote to make it legal?

[crappyice]

Those Bags?  You mean just about every product  that has anything to do with hunting the Whitetails deer? I could give two shits what you do or why you hunt. But again just as you or anyone else can’t show the real life fact that CWD is a big bad killer… Because it’s not.   You can’t show real life facts that meat pushed the hunting industry but I can in fact show you just how almost everything in the hunting industry is pushed by big antlers. Again fact that you can’t prove wrong. And yes. Even the worst of hunters can kill the dumbest animal of any species in the woods. If that’s what trips your trigger then have at it. 

Did you vote for Biden? How very Democratic of you to shift the discussion from hunter motivation to hunting industry when things are not alining with your hoped outcome of your conversation.
I will exit this chat now as I will have to save my energy to battle other such sophomoric "debates" all day......as I teach children.


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[crappyice]

As ive stated before you both are actually wrong in a way.  Most people hunt neither for the horns or the meat.  We hunt cause we enjoy the outdoors, because its what our fathers did and taught us to do, cause we feel relaxation and peace out in the woods, its what we do because we are drawn to it.  If it was first for meat or horns -  i can get both of those easier than i can hunt for them.  I choose to hunt because its what i enjoy.  
That being said if i could only bring out horns from the woods i would not be out there. Bringing the meat home is far more enjoyable than the horns.  The obvious is of course we hunt for larger bucks as thats the more difficult and challenging goal, but it is not the reason i hunt. If it was i would be wasting my time as I dont have a lot of those anywhere near where i hunt. I even have better buck spots i could hunt but dont cause i like my little piece of land and the challenge and meat it provides. FSW you think everyone is in it for the horns as thats what you se everday and provide, but that is a very small niche group that comes for that, same crowd of high fence type hunters who like to brag more than they like to hunt. Most hunters cannot be classified as that.  Most are just people that enjoy the act of hunting and are happy to be able to.     

See now, I can agree with this even when being called "wrong"
I just know that if a species of deer existed that was "hornless" I would still hunt them. If a species existed that was "meatless" I wouldn't!
And just to make FSW "happy" of course I would rather shoot a 200" than a 110"...but that's not my motivation for waking up


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[The_Real_TCIII]

When it finally hits CNY & WNY, and they realize what we are dealing with losing thousands of deer per year

"Can we put masks on the deer?"
-@Chef


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[Robhuntandfish]

45 minutes ago, crappyice said:

See now, I can agree with this even when being called "wrong"
I just know that if a species of deer existed that was "hornless" I would still hunt them. If a species existed that was "meatless" I wouldn't!
And just to make FSW "happy" of course I would rather shoot a 200" than a 110"...but that's not my motivation for waking up


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lol.  i said "in a way...." 

Good way of putting it - if deer didnt have horns would def still hunt.  And i havent seen horns yet on bear, grouse, turkeys, pheasants, rabbits, ducks or walleye, yet for some reason these are still hunted.....

Edited September 14, 2022 by Robhuntandfish

[Robhuntandfish]

32 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

"Can we put masks on the deer?"
-@Chef


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@kathyhochul

i blocked her but you should have tagged her to get this done  

Edited September 14, 2022 by Robhuntandfish

[Four Seasons]

2 hours ago, crappyice said:

Did you vote for Biden? How very Democratic of you to shift the discussion from hunter motivation to hunting industry when things are not alining with your hoped outcome of your conversation.
I will exit this chat now as I will have to save my energy to battle other such sophomoric "debates" all day......as I teach children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No you will now exit this chat…Again, because like every other time you have nothing. Start showing me pics of nice back straps on packs of broad heads or maybe a website like Antlers has showing all the great baby basket 4’s and 6’s killed this year in Ny state. And the long list goes on. 

[Four Seasons]

2 hours ago, crappyice said:

See now, I can agree with this even when being called "wrong"
I just know that if a species of deer existed that was "hornless" I would still hunt them. If a species existed that was "meatless" I wouldn't!
And just to make FSW "happy" of course I would rather shoot a 200" than a 110"...but that's not my motivation for waking up


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Yeah because we all know. Every Hunter spends 1000’s of $$$ to get decked out with the best products the industry offers to go out and kill a 6 month old fawn. You would think a guy hunting for just “Meat’ would be able to wear his jeans and single shot shotgun. I mean really. How hard is it really to kill the dumbest animals in the woods?  After all. They carry that same meat your looking for right?  And their out there by the 1000’s. What’s the issue?

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

Oh we all still get the meat but 99.9% of hunters drive is the bone on top of that meat. Hell if that was the case why wouldn’t they put pics of does and spikes on the hunting products? Why would there be record books? Why would there be a billion dollar industry on Tv. Do you see hunters showing pics of nice does and 4 pointers from Trail cams. The list is long. Any Hunter can get meat even if they are terrible hunters for the most part. Hell look at Wolc. The guy makes a living killing babies for meat and when after years of hunting he gets somewhat of a nice buck we have to see pictures of it for 9 months on numerous threads. The Bone. 

99.9%? Where the flying flock of seaguls go you get your info from? We've done polls on this very site and it's not anywhere near that. Do I chase a rack? Of course, I won't pretend I don't. If all bucks magically lost their antlers would I still deer hunt? Absof*ckingloutley. If deer meat became inedible would I still deer hunt? Probably not. 

If I recall some of the various polls, the #1 reason guys hunt is for the time away outdoors, followed by meat, followed by horns. 

[Four Seasons]

Just now, Belo said:

99.9%? Where the flying flock of seaguls go you get your info from? We've done polls on this very site and it's not anywhere near that. Do I chase a rack? Of course, I won't pretend I don't. If all bucks magically lost their antlers would I still deer hunt? Absof*ckingloutley. If deer meat became inedible would I still deer hunt? Probably not. 

If I recall some of the various polls, the #1 reason guys hunt is for the time away outdoors, followed by meat, followed by horns. 

  Yup. I bet your right. Take antlers totally out of the equation and whitetail hunting would be the billions of dollar industry it is today. We would still have all these products to go along with that meat cooking and still have leases of 400 acres going for 8 grand. And still have hunters buying land for double and triple it’s value because it’s an area that’s over ran with flatheads and they have their lifetime of meat taken care off. Yup. I’m Sure. 

[Nomad]

Been killing deer every year since the ‘70s, it was two seasons ago when the question was answered for me . For the first time in decades it looked like I would be skunked , and it was the lack of meat that troubled me , horns I like but they get tossed in a pile in the basement . Fortunately a doe fawn went into my freezer near seasons end .

[Five Seasons]

11 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

You can say anything you like. But until you can prove me wrong it does not hold much water. When you start seeing meat from the whitetail deer push the industry you let me know. Until then just like every morning  hunters wake up with the hope of killing the biggest antlered buck in his woods the industry will continue to use big antlered Whitetails to push the industry. Prove me wrong. 

another insight into your line of thinking. "What pushes the whitetail industry". Deer have been hunted since men have roamed the earth. Did cavemen adorn a nice rack on their cave entrance if they got one? Yes. Did they hunt the deer mostly for the meat? Yes.

You're so intertwined into your industry world that you've lost site of why many hunt. We enjoy the challenge, we enjoy the thrill of the chase. We enjoy the fruits of our labor (the meat). In my opinion there is a watermark that is set for who would hunt and how much that has nothing to do with rack size. Then there is the high water mark that is fueled by the rack no doubt. The "industry" which is just another version of corporations trying to make money btw, which is exactly what you seem to hate about CWD studies ironically absolutely uses this in their marketing to sell products we don't need but still buy in hopes it gives us the edge over a booner. 

Much of what you say isn't wrong about racks driving hunters, but you're overly dismissive of those of us who hunt for many other reasons than horns on the wall.

[Five Seasons]

9 hours ago, Four Seasons said:

You can’t show real life facts that meat pushed the hunting industry

I guess I'll give in here despite knowing you wont accept it. 

How over the last 5 to 10 years "meat" has pushed deer hunters.

Case #1 - The farm to table movement

https://www.adv-bio.com/the-history-of-the-farm-to-table-movement/#:~:text=The Farm to Table movement is a social movement calling,rather than global food systems.

Case #2 - License sales increasing during covid. There weren't more bucks or bigger bucks. So why did more people want to go out and secure some meat during these uncertain times?

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

Case #3 - While anecdotal, the popularity of the meateater brand in most cases surpassing the likes of the Drury brothers and Lee and Tiffany with an approach that focused more on the hunt itself and after the hunt then the later's focus on big buck kill shots.

Case #4 - The rise in small game and waterfowl hunting. 2 groups where there really is not much of a trophy club.

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/small-game/the-rise-and-fall-and-rise-again-of-the-american-small-game-hunter

Case #5 - The increase in hunters who are now butchering their own deer, trying things like heart, liver and nuts that were often left in the woods and becoming more and more interested in "after the kill" than they ever were before.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/outdoors/2020/11/14/hunters-increasingly-favor-butchering-their-own-deer/6247504002/

Edited September 14, 2022 by Belo

[Four Seasons]

5 minutes ago, Belo said:

another insight into your line of thinking. "What pushes the whitetail industry". Deer have been hunted since men have roamed the earth. Did cavemen adorn a nice rack on their cave entrance if they got one? Yes. Did they hunt the deer mostly for the meat? Yes.

You're so intertwined into your industry world that you've lost site of why many hunt. We enjoy the challenge, we enjoy the thrill of the chase. We enjoy the fruits of our labor (the meat). In my opinion there is a watermark that is set for who would hunt and how much that has nothing to do with rack size. Then there is the high water mark that is fueled by the rack no doubt. The "industry" which is just another version of corporations trying to make money btw, which is exactly what you seem to hate about CWD studies ironically absolutely uses this in their marketing to sell products we don't need but still buy in hopes it gives us the edge over a booner. 

Much of what you say isn't wrong about racks driving hunters, but you're overly dismissive of those of us who hunt for many other reasons than horns on the wall.

Dismissive?  I think not. Motivation and industry push is no doubt antlers and if you can’t see that then your blind. You better be careful pushing that CWD stuff. You know they tell you not to eat positive deer rand your hunting just for meat. We have had CWD in this state so who knows.                      Your line of thinking goes right along with the Goose Hunters. Ya know I offer 1000 acres of the top goose hunting arguably in this county and a few years back I had hunters and guides… oh so many guides pounding down my door to hunt this property. Ya know now there are days of 1000’s of geese and nobody to shoot them. You think that might have to do with only the taking of 1-3 birds a day?  I mean they still get some ‘Meat’ and they still get the outdoor ‘ Experience ‘.   Yet no hunters.    Because in their case it’s not worth it to them to crawl out of bed for that 1 bird and that 1 meat and that 1 experience. Yet those same hunters this month chase them local birds every day of September because they can blast 18 of them.  You take antlers out of deer hunting and you will have nothing of a hunting industry and then you will get buried by the anti’s while you get your meat at the grocery store. Period. 

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

 

hunters who like to brag more than they like to hunt. Most hunters cannot be classified as that.  Most are just people that enjoy the act of hunting and are happy to be able to.     

kinda like guys always having to post their dead deer pics haha. jk @BizCT

[Four Seasons]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

I guess I'll give in here despite knowing you wont accept it. 

How over the last 5 to 10 years "meat" has pushed deer hunters.

Case #1 - The farm to table movement

https://www.adv-bio.com/the-history-of-the-farm-to-table-movement/#:~:text=The Farm to Table movement is a social movement calling,rather than global food systems.

Case #2 - License sales increasing during covid. There weren't more bucks or bigger bucks. So why did more people want to go out and secure some meat during these uncertain times?

https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

Case #3 - While anecdotal, the popularity of the meateater brand in most cases surpassing the likes of the Drury brothers and Lee and Tiffany with an approach that focused more on the hunt itself and after the hunt then the later's focus on big buck kill shots.

Case #4 - The rise in small game and waterfowl hunting. 2 groups where there really is not much of a trophy club.

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/small-game/the-rise-and-fall-and-rise-again-of-the-american-small-game-hunter

Case #5 - The increase in hunters who are now butchering their own deer, trying things like heart, liver and nuts that were often left in the woods and becoming more and more interested in "after the kill" than they ever were before.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/outdoors/2020/11/14/hunters-increasingly-favor-butchering-their-own-deer/6247504002/

Lol. Yup the DEC can fill you with all they want. And in their next breath you can read. Oh hunters are letting more baby bucks walk because the want a bigger more mature deer. I bet your going to say they let them bucks walk because they are going to go from a buck twenty to a buck fifty in pounds. 

[Four Seasons]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

kinda like guys always having to post their dead deer pics haha. jk @BizCT

Exactly. And they sure the F$&( are not showing the pics of the little 4-6 pointer that’s hanging in their shed. 

[Five Seasons]

33 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

No you will now exit this chat…Again, because like every other time you have nothing. Start showing me pics of nice back straps on packs of broad heads or maybe a website like Antlers has showing all the great baby basket 4’s and 6’s killed this year in Ny state. And the long list goes on. 

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/46245.html

you even called out Antlers. Look at all these deer. doe and small bucks mixed in

https://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/2020-nys-youth-hunt.html

 

[Five Seasons]

10 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Lol. Yup the DEC can fill you with all they want. And in their next breath you can read. Oh hunters are letting more baby bucks walk because the want a bigger more mature deer. I bet your going to say they let them bucks walk because they are going to go from a buck twenty to a buck fifty in pounds. 

Well I'm glad you didn't refute any of the points. Your mind is a weird thing of absolutes. Deer hunting is not either blue or red, left or right. Hunters can let small bucks go and also hunt for meat. Many of us have stated that ourselves. We desire a big buck, but not at the expense of an empty freezer. Thankfully many of us have opportunity to shoot a doe or 2 and than wait on the buck we want. While I would be disappointed, I'd eat tag soup passing on some yearling bucks and harvesting a few doe for the freezer and still be happy. An empty freezer though? that's a heartbreaker. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Belo

[Four Seasons]

8 minutes ago, Belo said:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/46245.html

you even called out Antlers. Look at all these deer. doe and small bucks mixed in

https://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/2020-nys-youth-hunt.html

 

Yeah those same numbers represent those that hunt for just the ‘Meat’. Make sense. You can bet your lunch that many and many of those smiling hunters with big bucks shot smaller bucks their 2nd buck and never dropped the tailgate for a pic. 

[Five Seasons]

8 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

Exactly. And they sure the F$&( are not showing the pics of the little 4-6 pointer that’s hanging in their shed. 

jokes on you. I don't have a shed

Were they doe, 4 pointers, booners? Nobody knows, but this is all that matters for me.

[Four Seasons]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

Well I'm glad you didn't refute any of the points. Your mind is a weird thing of absolutes. Deer hunting is not either blue or red, left or right. Hunters can let small bucks go and also hunt for meat. Many of us have stated that ourselves. We desire a big buck, but not at the expense of an empty freezer. Thankfully many of us have opportunity to shoot a doe or 2 and than wait on the buck we want. While I would be disappointed, I'd eat tag soup passing on some yearling bucks and harvesting a few doe for the freezer and still be happy. An empty freezer though? that's a heartbreaker. 

My mind deal with the real world. And in the deer hunting industry if you take antlers out of the equation you would not have a bleep on the map. Simple as that. Hunters want,desire, strive for and pay unlimited amounts of money in one way or another to line themselves up with the biggest buck in their woods. Period. Most just settle for less. 

[Four Seasons]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

jokes on you. I don't have a shed

Were they doe, 4 pointers, booners? Nobody knows, but this is all that matters for me.

Yup that’s a great thing. As you woke that morning with the hope of the biggest rack buck of the woods to walk in front of you! You either killed that big antlered buck you were wishing for or you settled for less. Either way you were still getting the meat. But don’t try and pass on that your drive that morning was to fill your buck tag with one of those baby bucks walking your woods. 

[Five Seasons]

4 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

My mind deal with the real world. And in the deer hunting industry if you take antlers out of the equation you would not have a bleep on the map. Simple as that. Hunters want,desire, strive for and pay unlimited amounts of money in one way or another to line themselves up with the biggest buck in their woods. Period. Most just settle for less. 

I'm not disagreeing with you man, just stating that none of us besides you and a few others on this site work in or give a flying flock about the industry. I agree that horns drive the industry. We all do and anybody who doesn't is mistaken. What a few of us are trying to covey to you is that they're not our motivation to hunt. We all like big racks, but it's not this absolute 99.9% driver you claimed it to be. 

1 minute ago, Four Seasons said:

Yup that’s a great thing. As you woke that morning with the hope of the biggest rack buck of the woods to walk in front of you! You either killed that big antlered buck you were wishing for or you settled for less. Either way you were still getting the meat. But don’t try and pass on that your drive that morning was to fill your buck tag with one of those baby bucks walking your woods. 

Again, nobody in this thread is disagreeing with you. But we have 2 hunters just this year who went out without a buck tag and scored some meat. I have hunted without a buck tag looking for more meat. I can tell you it's been at least 5 years since I've killed a "baby buck" and it's been since college since I didn't put meat in the freezer. 2 things can be true. 

[Four Seasons]

53 minutes ago, Belo said:

I'm not disagreeing with you man, just stating that none of us besides you and a few others on this site work in or give a flying flock about the industry. I agree that horns drive the industry. We all do and anybody who doesn't is mistaken. What a few of us are trying to covey to you is that they're not our motivation to hunt. We all like big racks, but it's not this absolute 99.9% driver you claimed it to be. 

Again, nobody in this thread is disagreeing with you. But we have 2 hunters just this year who went out without a buck tag and scored some meat. I have hunted without a buck tag looking for more meat. I can tell you it's been at least 5 years since I've killed a "baby buck" and it's been since college since I didn't put meat in the freezer. 2 things can be true. 

I hope your not talking/thinking high fence when I say industry?  That is only part of the equation that just further strengthens my facts. The whitetail hunting industry across the country is driven by big bone. Period. You show me where I’m wrong. Show me all these high dollar products sold because I venison. Your totally freaking crazy if you think Whitetail hunting of today would even be a speck in antlered bucks of any kind disappeared or were takin off the table. Whitetail hunting would not even be spoke of. It would go by the way of pheasant and rabbit hunting. No bone and the game would be all but over. Hell a guy would sit in the woods two days fill his tags and go home. Done period over. No need for food plots, deer scents or anything else. It would be all but wiped off the map. 

[Chef]

My mind deal with the real world. And in the deer hunting industry if you take antlers out of the equation you would not have a bleep on the map. Simple as that. Hunters want,desire, strive for and pay unlimited amounts of money in one way or another to line themselves up with the biggest buck in their woods. Period. Most just settle for less. 

The high fenced industry you are involved with is not real world.. what percentage of hunters out there pay those big dollars to go shoot a pet.

Is a rack important to most of us yes… do we shoot deer for meat yes. Do my standards change as the season winds down sometimes.

But what you think of as the hunting industry is not reality for most


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