Here is one that will generate some debate.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I agree Cummings...I said it tongue in cheek yesterday but I really think the take the yotes provide is one factor why the DEC won't cut us loose on them 365 days a year.

[SteveB]

There is going to be no simple solution either. You cant manage WNY, ADKs, and LI all in the same manor.

That is the single most important issue, but the most ignored one in these discussions.

[steve863]

You don't need AR's to stimulate anyone into shooting more doe where it would be needed.  All you would need to do is issue more doe permits and it would get done.  Granted there are fewer and fewer hunters out there to get the job done, but I don't see how implementing AR's would bring any more hunters in to the sport than we already have.  Just WON'T happen.

[nyantler]

I agree, AR's wouldn't bring in more hunters.. I think that most of the guys that like deer hunting are hunting already. I'm not so sure the amount of hunters would plummet from a doe only season though either... well at least from all the guys on here that say they are not buck hunters, but deer hunters. Just so everyone is clear.. I put up the question more as it would pertain the helping out the age structure of the bucks... I know the concept was very general...and of course, if it was something that was to be seriously considered. all areas of NY would have to be looked at to see where it might be a good idea and where it might not...

[Big John]

Interesting idea, how about a slight adjustment... They (DEC) issues 2 Doe tags only, then after reporting (in person) your does kills they give you a buck tag, do that for 3 yrs. The freezer fillers like myself will have full freezers the bucks will get a chance to grow providing they are shot legally.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

John---regionally I think earn a buck could work, but there is still the issue of the areas of our state that currently have no doe tags and the herd population won't support them. It is a tough call here in NY, the habitat and terrain is so varied across the state.

Just throwing this out there because I dont know how this effects an earn a buck plan. I know guys that live in Maryland. The amount of deer they can take is crazy. I think if you hunt all seasons in all regions it can be like 28 deer. They have an earn a buck system. the guys that I know hunt big bucks so the first day of the season their tags get filled either by lead or by ink. even if they don't get 2 they fill the tags out so they can get the buck tag in their pocket. Since at this point in time we can support that kind of 28 deer harvest and you only get 2 tags....how would the non take of the does affect the population control efforts. Not sure how they can estimate that kind of action in their estimates.

[Big John]

John---regionally I think earn a buck could work, but there is still the issue of the areas of our state that currently have no doe tags and the herd population won't support them. It is a tough call here in NY, the habitat and terrain is so varied across the state.

Just throwing this out there because I dont know how this effects an earn a buck plan. I know guys that live in Maryland. The amount of deer they can take is crazy. I think if you hunt all seasons in all regions it can be like 28 deer. They have an earn a buck system. the guys that I know hunt big bucks so the first day of the season their tags get filled either by lead or by ink. even if they don't get 2 they fill the tags out so they can get the buck tag in their pocket. Since at this point in time we can support that kind of 28 deer harvest and you only get 2 tags....how would the non take of the does affect the population control efforts. Not sure how they can estimate that kind of action in their estimates.

The "by ink" is why I thought show the doe in person, if she is tagged properly then it would be hard to fake..... but I see your point about some areas....not that anyone is "glued" to an area....lol

[SteveB]

but I see your point about some areas....not that anyone is "glued" to an area....lol

No they are not. But if you have hunted your own land for years and then had to drive a couple hours to attempt to find a place to hunt might just discourage more then a few hunters to keep at it.

[steve863]

but I see your point about some areas....not that anyone is "glued" to an area....lol

Hard enough to find and keep private land to hunt in ones own area.  This is one major cause of hunter number decline.  If people have to go even further to hunt it will only make more people hang up their weapons for good.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Like I said before...given the current economic times....might be a lot of folks without the means to make those 2 hour trip to hunt. Gas......possible lodging...ect.

[nyantler]

They can still hunt near home.. just not for a buck.

[nyantler]

and when the program is over there will be all kinds of bucks running around

[Doc]

and when the program is over there will be all kinds of bucks running around

Yup, for a season or two and then you are back to square one but with a lot fewer hunters. And what the heck for? Yeah, I know so that the herd gets all healthy (as though they're not) and for a season or so, you have what is imagined to be some kind of better buck to doe ratio (which is something even the real experts are only guessing at and also something that none of them agree on. What a crock! Actually, the real purpose is that it would allow whatever hunters that are left to have an easier time getting something to hang on their walls and that's pretty much what all these schemes are all about. Thank heavens the DEC is having none of it.

[nyantler]

not if you have a restriction on the size buck you can take. And there ya go again doc... i can tell you don't even know what we're talking about when we say healthy herd. And again I'm not seeing WHY hanging a big buck up on the wall is a bad thing. Plus I thought you were all about the experts, but now even they don't have a clue about buck:doe ratio... make up your mind.

[Doc]

not if you have a restriction on the size buck you can take. And there ya go again doc... i can tell you don't even know what we're talking about when we say healthy herd. And again I'm not seeing WHY hanging a big buck up on the wall is a bad thing. Plus I thought you were all about the experts, but now even they don't have a clue about buck:doe ratio... make up your mind.

Wait a minute .... lol .... did you go and jump topics on me again? That first sentence doesn't make any sense in the context of the "doe only season" that we were talking about.

Yes when you talk about the ideal ratio of bucks to does, even the REAL experts do not give you the same answers. Imagine how silly it sounds when arm-chair game managers start trying to sound like they have all the answers.

And what on earth ever gave you the idea that I have a problem with taking trophy animals and displaying them. Just another little something that you have fabricated out of thin air.

Look, it isn't me that is denying that AR is primarily about trophy hunting. I'm not the one trying to say that support of AR has nothing to do with trophy hunting, but rather is strictly for the benefit of the herd. It is the AR supporters that are running away from their trophy motivations like its some kind of evil activity. I have never said or even indicated that I am against the pursuit of trophy animals. I probably try to keep it a little more in balance with other aspects of hunting than some do, but I certainly have no problems with taking and displaying trophy animals and I can't understand where you ever made up the thought that I do.

[nyantler]

I would agree that there are some so called QDM people out there that are more motivated by bigger bucks than by the management aspects of the original QDM model. I'm not one of those people.

[Doc]

I would agree that there are some so called QDM people out there that are more motivated by bigger bucks than by the management aspects of the original QDM model. I'm not one of those people.

That sounds a bit un-natural, but I'll have to take your word for that.

[Nyhunter325]

In this type of an idea where it would benefit everyone it solely depends on the individual to take part in this practice and have everyone who hunts in the area to participate in this part of deer management

now for i would participate because i know the outcome of this would benefit me and others more the less we would also have to start taking the more mature deer in the herd after the thinning out of the does this would bring balance to the buck to doe ratio

the only problem with this is that there are a great diversity of meat hunters and a great number of  trophy hunters... and to convince the ones who do not want any part in helping to balance out the herd or the deer population in general is going to be a obstacle all in its own i guess one way to do it is to show those hunters who oppose this idea that it works in other places so why wouldnt it work here and it could produce big trophy bucks i guess that may be my opinion but its also a general fact that an idea like this would face.

Ny,

[adk3006]

They can still hunt near home.. just not for a buck.

Joe, Unfortunatley you must not be reading what I have previously wrote in this thread.  Where I live, own a couple hundred acres and hunt there are no DMP's issued.  So if I can't shoot a buck and there are no DMP's...................WHAT CAN I HUNT??

[nyantler]

Sorry ADK I'm sure that would be part of the ajustments the DEC would have to look at