The direction of deer hunting

[Doc]

I didn't have this problem this year and I wish I did. During gun season around me it seemed like guys didn't even try to sit. Opening day I actually had a guy slowly sneaking through the woods while talking on his cell phone! I heard him coming long before I saw him. After opening day it seemed everyone just slept in and put drives on the rest of the day. Of course, this was on public land so that's what you get. It seems as the years go on I see many more "bad" hunters with "bad" hunting technique on public land. These are probably the first guys that get booted from private property so they just gravitate to the public land.

Yes that is why I added the disclaimer that my observations are very local and that others may not have the same observations. But what I described was not just this year alone. It has been a trend that I have been noting for several years, and have heard other people from other areas commenting on as well.

[nyantler]

Back to the original topic, one other direction that I have noticed hunting going is in terms of participation. By that I mean people buying licenses but not putting in the hours that they used to. And this may be strictly a local observation, but I have noticed a little flurry of shooting on opening morning (mostly before legal shooting hours) and then very sporadic activity after that. The same thing on the first Sunday and then we slide into a condition that makes you wonder if there really is a season going on. That's not the way I remember it sounding a bunch of decades ago. My theory (and I always have a theory .... lol), is that advances in clothing warmth have allowed the bulk of hunters to simply sit all day. The deer are driven into hiding by that initial push as hunters enter the woods (bang-bang-bang-bang), and then both the hunters and the deer spend the rest of the day sitting. We used to have a whole woods full of hunters who had frozen fingers and feet by 9:00 am and had to begin walking, keeping deer on their feet too. The days after opening day were used by the big drivers which also got deer up and moving.

 

This has been the biggest change in hunter attitude in my opinion... the surge of bow hunters since the 1980's has transitioned hunting from the ground to the tree... and the warmer clothing has kept them there... I also think the reason we hunted more back in the day is because we usually hunted with other people... family members and friends... it wasn't an option to not show up when the others planned on hunting... it is much easier to get up and get going if you know others are planning on you being there... especially when you were anticipating a fun day with fellow hunters. Many still hunt that way... but I think there are more lone hunters than years ago... its easy to bag that snowy cold morning if you're the only one involved. I think this has at least a little to do with the reason why hunters don't put in the hours they use to. Remember too that we didn't have as many days to hunt years ago either which probably is why we saw more hunters , more often.

[bubba]

You hit it on the head Joe.  At my camp, there are 8 of us who hunt. Family and friends.  You may have guys who show up once during the season and stay for an hour or two.  Others show up before daylight, eat breakfast and then go out fora few hours and go home and come back in the evening.  Then you have the ones who show up spend the night and you can not pry them out of bed the next morning. I mean to each his own, but it is difficult when you make plans for a hunt and it all falls apart.  You start to think why bother.  Yeah it may be because of the way I grew up, but there are always weekends I am at camp alone all weekend.  I think to myself sometimes I know guys who would love to be here and would hunt.  But how do you say ot the guys who do not show up go away.  Just the fast paced instant gratification world wee live in.  Then I have one guy who shows up two or three times a year for a few hours and complains to me after season he did not see any deer. Umm spend some time in the woods.  It sure increases the odds.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

One problem is that as the hunting world shrinks (hunting access), individual choices are altered. The other thing is that as the hunter densities concentrate on less and less land, the quality of the hunt begins to deteriorate. We may be able to duck and dodge some of that right now, but there is no doubt that there will come a day when we can no longer escape the inevitable.

 

 

Doc, They way NY state's population is headed you may not see the problems or at least not as fast. You can divide all the land to parcels you want but if the population isn't there to develop it, it doesn't make sense. I know we were third in population but I heard we were either close to fourth or were fourth this year.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I believe I have...they are NYS deer and you can not trap NYS deer or wild life for your own pleasure or use how ever you want to describe it...High fencing has to be OK'd by NYS DEC if the property high fenced contains deer....

I have seen companies do it to their property  with only a permit from the local municipalities. Projects I have managed have enclosed a lot of property as part of the contracts. We never had to drive out the game.

[Doc]

Doc, They way NY state's population is headed you may not see the problems or at least not as fast. You can divide all the land to parcels you want but if the population isn't there to develop it, it doesn't make sense. I know we were third in population but I heard we were either close to fourth or were fourth this year.

I wonder which one is happening the fastest. The shrinking of NYS population or the concentrating of more and more hunters on less and less property. The other thing I wonder is exactly what parts of the state are shrinking fastest in terms of population. I have no stats, but I do not see the development of our rural area slowing down any. Some of these google map images are amazing when you start looking back into the hills where nobody ever would have thought about building and you see what can only be described as "developments in the middle of nowhere. If NYS population is on the move, some of that movement is down our way and into what used to be prime hunting lands.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

Back to the original topic, one other direction that I have noticed hunting going is in terms of participation. By that I mean people buying licenses but not putting in the hours that they used to. And this may be strictly a local observation, but I have noticed a little flurry of shooting on opening morning (mostly before legal shooting hours) and then very sporadic activity after that. The same thing on the first Sunday and then we slide into a condition that makes you wonder if there really is a season going on. That's not the way I remember it sounding a bunch of decades ago. My theory (and I always have a theory .... lol), is that advances in clothing warmth have allowed the bulk of hunters to simply sit all day. The deer are driven into hiding by that initial push as hunters enter the woods (bang-bang-bang-bang), and then both the hunters and the deer spend the rest of the day sitting. We used to have a whole woods full of hunters who had frozen fingers and feet by 9:00 am and had to begin walking, keeping deer on their feet too. The days after opening day were used by the big drivers which also got deer up and moving.

I agree on the way the hunting styles have changed and the difference in the amount of shooting I hear compared to 30 years ago. But if we look at the deer number from the DEC on their harvest reports there are far more deer taken now then 30 years ago.  Are we just better shooters now?

 

I can't seem to paste again but check out the "historic deer harvest report" on the DEC site. My first season I hunted (as opposed to just going with Dad) was in '81. We take 80k more deer now then then.

[A Sportsman]

Bubba and Nyantler, what you are describing is exactly what my group has witnessed as well. It seems like there is more value on peoples time nowadays. More folks are working long hours or two jobs, or their wives are working etc. I know personally my wife has become a serious PITA with me hunting the entire opening week of rifle each year.

At my camp there are about 9 guys for opening day. About 6 by monday, and about 3 from wednesday til the following sunday. Used to be about 6 straight on through. As for other hunters, the few we see are mostly gone by monday.

In my expereince, hunting the catskills, you can't plan on a 2 day hunt every year and expect to be successful with consistency. The weather conditions and/or lack of deer movement will kill you most years. Nowadays peoples brains are not conditioned to accept the fact that it may take a week to get eyes on a buck, in range, and presenting a shot. And so there is disappointment for them many years.

I think what we are coming to here is that hunting is changing right along with the way people in general are changing in our country. And it is not for the better.

[Doc]

 

I can't seem to paste again but ........

Damn are you having that problem too? Irritating isn't it? It's gotten so I cannot even delete large blocks of highlighted text or place emoticons. Are you using Internet Explorer 11 for a browser?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You couldn't pay me enough to open up my land to the general public. I'm not sure how great financial incentives are anyway. Anyone who could be influenced that way is probably already collecting a hole lot more cash from leases. Paying all of the taxes and still having beer money left over. Unless it was guaranteed to work, I probably wouldn't really like my tax money used that way anyway.

I am not sure if the still do it but I knew one farm that got tax breaks for allowing it. he posted hunting Co-op signs and in order to go on you had to see him and get permission slips for the season. It was a 3 part form and he had to send in a one of them to the state to prove he was giving permission. One went to the hunter and he kept one. I have no idea how much the break was or if the program still exists.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Damn are you having that problem too? Irritating isn't it? It's gotten so I cannot even delete large blocks of highlighted text or place emoticons. Are you using Internet Explorer 11 for a browser?

Yup

[bubba]

A great program but the owner can still say who he lets on.  Same people who always did go on, but now he gets a break for them.  

[Doc]

I agree on the way the hunting styles have changed and the difference in the amount of shooting I hear compared to 30 years ago. But if we look at the deer number from the DEC on their harvest reports there are far more deer taken now then 30 years ago.  Are we just better shooters now?

 

I can't seem to paste again but check out the "historic deer harvest report" on the DEC site. My first season I hunted (as opposed to just going with Dad) was in '81. We take 80k more deer now then then.

I do think that hunters are getting way more efficient. You don't find guys around without scopes all that much anymore. More and more counties are allowing rifles now so that guys can reach out and take deer that they might not even have tried to get before. Even the shotguns and slugs are improving and extending the range. So the shooting may not be as frequent but what you hear may be more kills than what used to be misses. 

 

Also sneaking carefully back into the topic of running shots, more sitting hunters may also equate to fewer running shots and a higher percent of successful shots. Back in the olden days, we used to be a lot more mobile and a lot of the deer movements were nervous trotting at best and more likely to be quick moving shots. Yes, hunters got a whole lot more shooting in back then but the targets were not as stationary (slow moving) as what a whole lot of sitters will see today.

 

I don't know, it is all a bunch of guessing, but I agree there seems to be a whole lot less shooting and yet the harvests stay high. What can I say .... we're just getting good ..... lol.

[bubba]

The average of deer hunters is older now also. That may be a factor as we slow down a bit.  I myself know that since I started hunting ,y own land and stopped hunting public land, I probably do not hunt as hard as I used to.  I sometimes find the chair by the stove more comfortable especially if the weather is less that wonderful.  if I were still hunting public land, I would be out there regardless. However in my defense, you do not see me on here or hear me complaining how horrible my season is.

[Doc]

The average of deer hunters is older now also. That may be a factor as we slow down a bit.  I myself know that since I started hunting ,y own land and stopped hunting public land, I probably do not hunt as hard as I used to.  I sometimes find the chair by the stove more comfortable especially if the weather is less that wonderful.  if I were still hunting public land, I would be out there regardless. However in my defense, you do not see me on here or hear me complaining how horrible my season is.

I kind of prefer not to call it slowing down, but rather, hunting smarter. That sounds a whole lot better ..... lol.

 

[Suilleabhain]

A Sportsman, you are describing my club too. In the 60's and 70's there would be 12 guys for opening day and Tuesday with about 6 or 7 hunting thru the following Sunday. Then come back every weekend. Now they hunt Sat & Sun, come back home Monday and then go back up for a few days of muzzleloader. A few bow hunting a couple of days in the early season. Chalk that up to AR. No farmland, no feed, posters all over, food plots all over pulling deer away, so getting a chance at any real horns are slim. Does are the draw now.

[Larry]

I have been reading what some of you think the future seasons should be.

 

I was 1 of the 7000 that received a survey from the DEC. I filled it out and returned it in 2 days. So its been in for a while. I also sent a page explaining why I answered some of the key questions the way I did.

 

So here’s how I answered some questions:

 

Youth hunt, all for it (even though I bow hunt)

 

Shortening the gun season, I’m not in favor of shortening any season.

 

Going to 1 buck per-year: not in favor(I haven't killed 2 bucks in the same year since 2004)here’s why I hunt out of a camp like a lot of you do, the camp is in a wmu that does not give out a lot of dmp's if kill a buck in bow season and don't get a dmp I don't go to camp. Also I’m force to hunt where I have a dmp and can't check out a new spot.

 

Antler Restrictions: not in favor. I pass on small bucks that’s my choice I don't have the right to force someone to hunt the way I do or to decide for them what a trophy is.

[growalot]

I found that the only way I can paste something is to put it in quotes...then it is allowed....

[nyantler]

At our camp in the ADK's we actually have more hunters now than we ever did... most are our kids that come up to spend time with their dads .. unfortunately our kids do not have that same passion for hunting as us dads do... although our kids have a great time with us ...we know that when we are gone our kids might not have the same desire to keep the tradition going... we can't force that on them... we can only give them the best experience we know how and hope they carry on the tradition with their kids

 

[Arrow Flinger]

At our camp in the ADK's we actually have more hunters now than we ever did... most are our kids that come up to spend time with their dads .. unfortunately our kids do not have that same passion for hunting as us dads do... although our kids have a great time with us ...we know that when we are gone our kids might not have the same desire to keep the tradition going... we can't force that on them... we can only give them the best experience we know how and hope they carry on the tradition with their kids

 

I see the same thing with my son. He's 19, goes to college, and works part time. When he has free time he doesn't really want to go out in the woods with me. He took a week off in November to go bowhunting with me and that was all the deer hunting he did. He likes it but just not as much as me I guess. I hear from my wife all the time "he's not like you, he don't think about hunting 24/7". Unfortunately, I don't think there are many young hunters out there that do nowadays. I think to a lot of the younger hunters, hunting will be something they do when they have nothing else going on instead of something they live for doing.

[Suilleabhain]

Shame but out of my nieces and nephews, 7 of them, only one hunts and only 2 days a yer if at all. They were all exposed to it but they'd rather watch baseball & football. I think losing the shooting clubs in high school also has something to do with it.

[A Sportsman]

This is exactly my fear too.  My Dad and uncle have been hunting since the 1960s. The tradition has continued with me, my brother and one of my cousins.   But I often think about what will happen with our kids. They are not old enough to hunt yet, but  I worry.  It would be a shame if it ends. 

 

The way we hunt and the area we hunt is not for the kid who is "on the fence" about it.  There is no coming back to the house for lunch, no 4 wheelers to take you up the mountains, not a heck of a lot of deer to keep you interested.  If the kids don't have the fire, its not something that they will stay with very long. 

 

I suppose i can bowhunt on LI with my kids (once old enough).  At least the action of seeing deer will be there.

[Suilleabhain]

I tnk AR is going to take its toll too, not on the kids raised upstate who have time to hunt but, the kids downstate that have to be driven 3 hours on weekends and have school during the week. They shoot whatever for two years on youth hunt and then its 3-points or better and no doe permits like in 3A. That and they can't put their stupid I-Phones down for 30 seconds.

[Doc]

I see these kids curled up on the couch poking buttons and doing their little finger scrolling, and I can see that they don't have a damn bit of interest in doing anything that has to do with the outdoors. We have family holiday get-togethers and you can see all these kids hanging out talking and at the same time, they each have their various gadgets and are texting or playing games while they are trying to converse. It really does look kind of weird. Not only that, but now I see the adults starting to do the same thing. There is a culture change going on out there that doesn't have any room for camping, hiking, trapping, hunting, and fishing in any part of it. It's not a new thing, but is accelerating in my view. We are becoming a society of techno-worshippers. Where does hunting fit into all that? ....... It doesn't. We can hold all the youth hunts and activities that we want, but I'm afraid that in most cases, we have already lost them. It just isn't cool.

[Suilleabhain]

I hope I live long enough to see the outcome. No social skills, carpal tunnel fingers, loss of eyesight and overweight up the ying-yang.