A Growing Contoversy

[mike rossi]

Reading on hunting contests

March 30, 2014: Hunting contests are a growing controversy which will inevitably have to be addressed in the future. Currently in NY State there is much public outcry and two legislative bills aimed at banning hunting contests.

“Squirrel Slam”

“Crow Down”

Senate Bill 4074

Assembly Bill 03661

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgrecords/position_statements.asp?area=bgRecords

http://sciencecases.lib.buffalo.edu/cs/files/killing_coyote.pdf

http://www.highplainsfilms.org/hpf/films/killing_coyote

http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol26/26-2/39.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hunting_Association

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Environmental_and_Animal_Groups:_Views_on_Hunting

[phade]

Fishing tourneys next?

[mike rossi]

Fishing tourneys next?

I think the fishing tournaments have been under scrutiny a lot longer. I remember discussions about them over ten years ago. I think the fish aspect is mostly a management concern with less interest from the animal rights crowd. As we know however, animal rights groups sometimes adhere their agendas to legitimate issues. What I just said is a dangerous statement, because the perception among hunters is generally anything that suggests it is not wise to pull the trigger is part of an animal rights agenda, and of course that is not always true. However, the antis will grand stand on legitimate issues, its up to the sporting community to wise up the this political phenomenon that has plagued us for years. 

[ants]

Hunting contests or often held for management of  certain game also. But I think the difference, for the antis is that no one is shooting fish with a big, bad dangerous gun. I think that the antis agenda is as much anti gun as it is anything else. IMHO

[mike rossi]

No this is not about gun control. It is an opposition to a controversial practice incorporated into hunting. (the controversial aspects are outlined in the links provided in the original post.) You totally high jacked everything that needs to be learned from this with that statement. I believe you are one of the several people on this site who indicated you were an attorney at one time or another. Well if this was a court and I was a judge, I would instruct the jury to strike that statement from permissible testimony....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

"Contests
B&C does not support programs, contests or competitions that directly place a bounty on game animals by awarding cash or expensive prizes for the taking of wildlife."

 

pretty funny. Seems quite a few Near Record mounts are sold quite frequently, even to sporting goods retailers, I couldn't find their opposition to that.  

[virgil]

Easier to conduct a 'catch and release' fishing contest than a hunting one.

[ants]

No this is not about gun control. It is an opposition to a controversial practice incorporated into hunting. (the controversial aspects are outlined in the links provided in the original post.) You totally high jacked everything that needs to be learned from this with that statement. I believe you are one of the several people on this site who indicated you were an attorney at one time or another. Well if this was a court and I was a judge, I would instruct the jury to strike that statement from permissible testimony....

I didn't high jack anything. I simply gave my opinion on what I think one aspect of the anti agenda. (IMHO means "in my humble opinion…i think) And I am not, have never been and have never indicated that I was an attorney. If you assumed that, then that was a mistake on your part. 

If you don't want people to interject their opinions then you should preference that in your posts…Then get over yourself

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Easier to conduct a 'catch and release' fishing contest than a hunting one.

Agreed, but I have seen it both ways. many ice fishing derbies are not a catch and release scenario.

[Mr VJP]

Nothing wrong with hunting contests that control pests and predators, as far as I'm concerned.  Crows, coyotes and vermin are not endangered.  How come the anti's don't concern themselves with the rat control issues in NYC?

[mike rossi]

I didn't high jack anything. I simply gave my opinion on what I think one aspect of the anti agenda. (IMHO means "in my humble opinion…i think) And I am not, have never been and have never indicated that I was an attorney. If you assumed that, then that was a mistake on your part. 

If you don't want people to interject their opinions then you should preference that in your posts…Then get over yourself

The opposition has clearly defined why they are against this and little reference has been made about gun control. The closest thing to gun control is their argument against the participation by children.

 

I wanted hunters to be aware of what these people are saying, not what they are not saying. I did not want to speculate on any ulterior motives or subliminal messages, just the black and white.  I am sure that many anti-hunters  are also anti-gun, including those actively involved in this particular issue.  However your assertion about the underlying motive being gun control diverts attention a way from what actually is germane to this specific issue. Even if your premise that it was all about gun control was correct, they are not using gun control rhetoric to influence public opinion and drive legislation. The information I posted is about the rhetoric that they are using to do just that, and how well it is working for them.

 

Hunters are aware of gun control and active in fighting it. They are not as much aware of what is playing out with the controversy over hunting contests. 

[mike rossi]

Here is one of many newspaper articles about the Crow Down. Why I am bringing attention to this particular article is because the author actually posted on the hosting Rod and Gun Club's face book page asking for members to comment. I offered him info, but at a price, because he works for a big city newspaper, I also explained I was not a club member. He replied that he was not paid enough to pay me. I learned he was also a college professor and it later occurred to me I heard his name before and remembered I had got into a lengthy debate with him on you tube several months ago.

 

I also offered to consult with the club, for a fee, which they declined. As a matter of fact, I posted this same link on their face book page and I believe they removed it. I explained in my post that this is written by the same guy who posted on their page a few days ago asking for club members to comment for his blog. For some reason I think  the club didn't appreciate my post and deleted it...

 

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/its-crow-killing-time-in-upstate-new-york-and-elsewhere/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&_r=2

Edited March 31, 2014 by mike rossi

[ants]

The opposition has clearly defined why they are against this and little reference has been made about gun control. The closest thing to gun control is their argument against the participation by children.

 

I wanted hunters to be aware of what these people are saying, not what they are not saying. I did not want to speculate on any ulterior motives or subliminal messages, just the black and white.  I am sure that many anti-hunters  are also anti-gun, including those actively involved in this particular issue.  However your assertion about the underlying motive being gun control diverts attention a way from what actually is germane to this specific issue. Even if your premise that it was all about gun control was correct, they are not using gun control rhetoric to influence public opinion and drive legislation. The information I posted is about the rhetoric that they are using to do just that, and how well it is working for them.

 

Hunters are aware of gun control and active in fighting it. They are not as much aware of what is playing out with the controversy over hunting contests. 

Never said that "it was all about gun control" I believe that a large number of anti hunters are also anti gun and that agenda is as important to them as the anti hunting aspect.

If this were a court and I was the  judge I would have the stenographer read back the minutes so that you understood exactly what I said and meant. Again, its just one guy giving his opinion.

[mike rossi]

They got over 21,000 signatures on their petition, check it out:

 

New York: Ban Wildlife Killing Contests
author: Alicia Graef
target: New York Legislature, Environmental Conservation Committee
signatures: 21,046

21,04622,000
we've got 21,046 signatures, help us get to 22,000

overview
petition

 

Animal advocates and lawmakers in New York are working to make sure barbaric wildlife killing contests like Palenville's Crow Down and Holley's Squirrel Slam never take place again.

Opponents continue to raise concerns over the cruelty inherent in these contests and the dangerous, indifferent, attitudes they promote towards wildlife – especially when it comes to what they teach children about the species we share our landscapes with.

Species who are considered pests are often targeted in these contests, but the so-called hunters who continue to support them are completely ignoring not just the role their targets play in the environment, but their inherent value.

It's been long known that crows are highly intelligent and social animals who form lifelong pair bonds and live in tight-knit family groups that stay together for years, while squirrels perform a variety of tasks that help forests in their daily lives.

While there might not be anything that can legally be done to stop the upcoming Crow Down, there is hope that contests in New York, will become a thing of the past.

Animal advocates and lawmakers are supporting legislation that will make it illegal for “any person to organize, conduct, promote or participate in any contest or competition where the objective of such contest or competition is to take the greatest number of wildlife.”

Please sign the petition urging New York lawmakers to support and co-sponsor this vital piece of legislation for wildlife.

 

 

 

you have the power to create change.

[mike rossi]

It might be more awakening to see the actual petition, here is the link:

 

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/916/267/358/new-york-ban-wildlife-killing-contests/

[Sogaard]

Scroll through the people signing the petition.

 

I only went through the last 100 or so, but it looked to me like more than half aren't even from the US. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Scroll through the people signing the petition.

 

I only went through the last 100 or so, but it looked to me like more than half aren't even from the US. 

They all will count to the total. By the number of daily signatures, They will fill some pages!

[Sogaard]

I guess my point was, so what?

 

This petition means nothing if anyone can sign it.  It's the equivalent of getting 100k "likes" on Facebook. 

[Sogaard]

If you post a link to this petition on a couple of PETA sites, you could probably triple the amount of "signatures" in a matter of days...but so what?

 

That bill is the only thing that can actually effect any change.  Write a letter or call your local Senator/Assembly man.  Who gives a crap what some guy in Norway thinks?

[mike rossi]

Scroll through the people signing the petition.

 

I only went through the last 100 or so, but it looked to me like more than half aren't even from the US. 

 

That is a bit of an exaggeration, although there are some non resident signatures. There is a huge opposition right within the state and they managed to get bills introduced in both state houses with multiple sponsors and cosponsors. I wouldn't exactly say the NY Rod & Gun Club and the fire department that instigated this controversy are who is benefitting from this attention as they both have claimed.  This controversy engaged more anti-hunters and organized them better. Far more state residents than the total number on that petition. I didn't have to go too far out of my way to follow the buzz about this, its all over.