QDMA and CWD

[dbHunterNY]

Yearling bucks, like teenage boys have different behaviors than the rest of the population. A lot of those yearling buck behaviors seem to be enabling of CWD. The research is in it's infancy, but it is possible that in the future conclusions from these studies will recommend against protecting yearling bucks or skewing the population sex/age structure to favor them.

 

I am not well informed about QDM however. There may be other strategies in it which mitigate the potential problem. For example, if population densities are managed at smaller levels, perhaps because more food means bigger deer, than the impact of the proverbial young bucks might be mitigated. That might be the topic of future research as well...

 

Some of you guys go to the QDM seminars, what does that Ross guy say about this, ask him next time...

 

he's just one biologist but I can ask him next time I see him if he's not busy.  this next meeting may or may not have him there.  I think that given a deers travel range and that I don't know of CWD popping up around here the answer might be to not worry about it but focus on practices of keeping the herd healthy as you would in a non-CWD area.  I don't think you manage a deer herd in a CWD area the exact same as in an area where CWD isn't really around.  in a CWD area you want it to stay isolated and not spread, which is a big focus but not the focus in an area without it.  I was trying to look into the closest confirmed case of CWD in this area.  I got a case in PA that seemed to start some concern.  then in March 2005 CWD was confirmed in captive whitetails here in NY and in April it was found in wild deer here in NY.  No cases have been found in NY since then.  This info is from the CWD Alliance website.  Not sure if new reliable info is out that would suggest anything different.  consistent with QDMA beliefs, it's my understanding yearling bucks compose a majority of your free range buck population.  in order to get the huge health benefits associated with a buck:doe ratio close to 1:1, you have to protect most if not all of them.  it was expressed to me that it's extremely hard get the tags or have the capability to shoot enough doe to offset the few number of bucks if you don't protect them to an extent.  That said there's other guidelines that are followed in NY to prevent a spread of CWD despite it not really being around.  If you cut up your own deer, have one processed, field dress your own deer, or have a deer mounted, you should know what some of these already are.

[orion]

What are the huge health benefits of a 1:1 buck doe ratio?

[dbHunterNY]

What are the huge health benefits of a 1:1 buck doe ratio?

 

this is what I've picked up on... but first off that ratio is just about impossible to get or keep.  2 or maybe even 3 adult doe per adult buck is a much more realistic goal.  that said it creates more competition that's in line with the theory of evolution and natural selection.  a runt weaker buck maybe less likely to assert enough dominance to breed a doe and pass on genetics.  more directly related to deer is how a more balanced ratio affects the what happens during and after the periods of the rut.  does are bred sooner, when they come in heat the first time.  breeding doesn't reoccur into December or even January, because a doe isn't bred successfully during its first cycle due to bucks tending other doe.  both doe and bucks then aren't being physically worn down more and stressed into the winter months.  they're more likely to survive the winter and go into spring in better shape with less need to recover and less weight needed to put back on.  more energy from feeding goes into antler growth or milk production sooner, all other things being equal.  fawn recruitment is much improved as earlier born fawns are bigger and better suited to survive the up coming winter or predators.  the difference in size and physical ability of fawns a month or two apart is a lot. 

that's just health aspects.... but it brings benefits to hunting experience as well.  the rut is more intense with a balanced ratio and age structure.  when you hit that grunt tube or bang that rattle bag bucks are more willing to come running because there's only so many does available.  there's a big difference on stand having four or five bucks chasing down a hot doe while grunting or snort wheezing versus the occasional buck strolling through the woods with his nose down not or watching a spike lightly harass a group of doe because nothing else is around to say otherwise.

[nyantler]

What are the huge health benefits of a 1:1 buck doe ratio?

The big one would be that all does would get bred in the first estrous and fawns being born earlier giving them plenty of time to grow before the next winter. But, even with a 1:1 ratio carrying capacity still has to be at a level conducive to good herd health given the habitat available. Ratio is only a small part of total herd health.

[dbHunterNY]

The big one would be that all does would get bred in the first estrous and fawns being born earlier giving them plenty of time to grow before the next winter. But, even with a 1:1 ratio carrying capacity still has to be at a level conducive to good herd health given the habitat available. Ratio is only a small part of total herd health.

 

very right....

 

and I'm with the understanding the QDMA or proper QDM supports this.  also it wouldn't be good in a CWD area as it would lead to sources of food being hammered by more deer and more likely to be contaminated, which would allow the deer to come into indirect contact with CWD.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

he's just one biologist but I can ask him next time I see him if he's not busy.  this next meeting may or may not have him there.  I think that given a deers travel range and that I don't know of CWD popping up around here the answer might be to not worry about it but focus on practices of keeping the herd healthy as you would in a non-CWD area.  I don't think you manage a deer herd in a CWD area the exact same as in an area where CWD isn't really around.  in a CWD area you want it to stay isolated and not spread, which is a big focus but not the focus in an area without it.  I was trying to look into the closest confirmed case of CWD in this area.  I got a case in PA that seemed to start some concern.  then in March 2005 CWD was confirmed in captive whitetails here in NY and in April it was found in wild deer here in NY.  No cases have been found in NY since then.  This info is from the CWD Alliance website.  Not sure if new reliable info is out that would suggest anything different.  consistent with QDMA beliefs, it's my understanding yearling bucks compose a majority of your free range buck population.  in order to get the huge health benefits associated with a buck:doe ratio close to 1:1, you have to protect most if not all of them.  it was expressed to me that it's extremely hard get the tags or have the capability to shoot enough doe to offset the few number of bucks if you don't protect them to an extent.  That said there's other guidelines that are followed in NY to prevent a spread of CWD despite it not really being around.  If you cut up your own deer, have one processed, field dress your own deer, or have a deer mounted, you should know what some of these already are.

This is not just from one study. Look across the country and look at the cases found. Male vs female.  The point is that the QDMA is not changing their stance on the buck harvest to their members, even in CWD positive animals.  That points to the fact that they are not to worried about the spread of CWD, which is what they base their fights on.  Can you say hypocrite?

 

Remember that in order to find something, you have to look for something.  Ny is not testing .05 of a percent of total deer. Not even a half of one percent. Yup, they are really looking for it.  How many CWD tests are being done along the NY/Pa border?  Pa has it on the farm and in the wild. More cases are in the air

[bowaholic]

_{I have an idea.... If you think CWD is such an amazing thing for the deer heard, give all the animals at your place CWD and let us know how they are holding up.... until then stop trying to push it on us who realize that a disease that kills deer and makes them sick is NOT good for a heard.... is AIDS in a human good? no...it kills them and spreads (yes im sure your going to say that im comparing apples to oranges but in reality im not....im comparing a disease that kills to a disease that kills....)}

[Terry]

It seems to me that if CWD was prevalent in NY, people would see signs of it. There would be deer found suffering and brought to the DEC's attention.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Four Seasons, this is the last time Im going to ask you to stop with the foul language. Adding an exclamation point to replace a letter is still against the rules.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

_{I have an idea.... If you think CWD is such an amazing thing for the deer heard, give all the animals at your place CWD and let us know how they are holding up.... until then stop trying to push it on us who realize that a disease that kills deer and makes them sick is NOT good for a heard.... is AIDS in a human good? no...it kills them and spreads (yes im sure your going to say that im comparing apples to oranges but in reality im not....im comparing a disease that kills to a disease that kills....)}

There you have it. So with your way of thinking why would a group like QDMA support the spread of the so called dreaded disease  across the countryside. As proof has shown that every other way a deer can die is 99.9% more deadly to the herd, A deer could only be so lucky to live long enough to really be taken out by CWD.

 So why would a group that uses it as their main crutch ask their members to stop supporting the spread of it?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Four Seasons, this is the last time Im going to ask you to stop with the foul language. Adding an exclamation point to replace a letter is still against the rules.

Oh sorry....A new one i see.  How far did you have to dig for that one?   I will be watching for all the other warnings on here.  Typical...We see that used on another site also.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yearling bucks, like teenage boys have different behaviors than the rest of the population. A lot of those yearling buck behaviors seem to be enabling of CWD. The research is in it's infancy, but it is possible that in the future conclusions from these studies will recommend against protecting yearling bucks or skewing the population sex/age structure to favor them.

I am not well informed about QDM however. There may be other strategies in it which mitigate the potential problem. For example, if population densities are managed at smaller levels, perhaps because more food means bigger deer, than the impact of the proverbial young bucks might be mitigated. That might be the topic of future research as well...

Some of you guys go to the QDM seminars, what does that Ross guy say about this, ask him next time...

Why dont you look Matt Ross' email address up and ask him yourself? Its not a secret, its right on the QDMA website.

Bottom line here is FSW is basing everything upon the results of ONE study, and not even a complete or conclusive study. It was posted on the last thread that went down this same road, read it if you like.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

It seems to me that if CWD was prevalent in NY, people would see signs of it. There would be deer found suffering and brought to the DEC's attention.

Yes you would think so.if they ever live that long to get to that stage of CWD...They will starve, be shot or hit by a car long before you will ever see that happen.  Another Fact!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Oh sorry....A new one i see. How far did you have to dig for that one? I will be watching for all the other warnings on here. Typical...We see that used on another site also.

Dig? It was on the first page of this thread before I edited the post to remove it. I have had to edit a bunch of your posts lately.

Used to see what on what other site?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Why dont you look Matt Ross' email address up and ask him yourself? Its not a secret, its right on the QDMA website.

Bottom line here is FSW is basing everything upon the results of ONE study, and not even a complete or conclusive study. It was posted on the last thread that went down this same road, read it if you like.

Why should i do that.  Man the poor dues paying members cant even get that answer on their own site. Typical i say.  You keep saying one study. That alone proves you know nothing of CWD or the sexes and cases across the country.  Learn something!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Dig? It was on the first page of this thread before I edited the post to remove it. I have had to edit a bunch of your posts lately.

Used to see what on what other site?

Whatever,,Go back and look at the crossbow threads from the last couple days... The words were even spelled out for ya...  Heat gets hot and you try to find another way out of the fire.  

[WNYBuckHunter]

Why should i do that. Man the poor dues paying members cant even get that answer on their own site. Typical i say. You keep saying one study. That alone proves you know nothing of CWD or the sexes and cases across the country. Learn something!

Was I talking to you on the Matt Ross thing? No, I wasnt.

I keep asking you for more studies to back up your statements, have been for well over a week. Im asking you to educate me, but you keep on refusing. I have yet to find any studies that back up the theory you keep spouting.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Whatever,,Go back and look at the crossbow threads from the last couple days... The words were even spelled out for ya... Heat gets hot and you try to find another way out of the fire.

Wrong. I warned people on that thread too. You seem to be the only one I have to keep editing and warning. This has nothing to do with our opinions on CWD or the QDMA, but feel free to play the typical Victim card after you have broken the forum rules over and over.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Wrong. I warned people on that thread too. You seem to be the only one I have to keep editing and warning. This has nothing to do with our opinions on CWD or the QDMA, but feel free to play the typical Victim card after you have broken the forum rules over and over.

Riiiight.  No need to play victim.  Just going to continue to show the facts as they come along.  And the question you say to email will instead be asked in public to Kip himself.  Should be an interesting reply!

[Terry]

You have provided opinions, not facts. I think that's pretty obvious to everyone but yourself.

You also keep resorting to name calling, belittling others post, and illusions of actually proving your point.

[bowaholic]

So will you be injecting your deer with it or no?  The only answer I want is yes or no....I'm sure a lot of us on here would like to hear the answer to this

There you have it. So with your way of thinking why would a group like QDMA support the spread of the so called dreaded disease  across the countryside. As proof has shown that every other way a deer can die is 99.9% more deadly to the herd, A deer could only be so lucky to live long enough to really be taken out by CWD.

 So why would a group that uses it as their main crutch ask their members to stop supporting the spread of it?

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So will you be injecting your deer with it or no?  The only answer I want is yes or no....I'm sure a lot of us on here would like to hear the answer to this

LOL...Im not sure if that is possible but give it time. I mean i have only had deer for 15 years, clearly not enough time for a deer to contact it.  Im thinking in a couple years it will be around for us all to enjoy.  Well that is if they test for it. Ny does not like to lose money and if CWD shows back up for good they know tag sales will fall big time. They will not look for it any time soon!     Maybe! 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You have provided opinions, not facts. I think that's pretty obvious to everyone but yourself.

You also keep resorting to name calling, belittling others post, and illusions of actually proving your point.

Sorry buddy but every fact that has been shown is gospel on the QDMA website   Funny how that works out. If the words agree with your kind of thinking..Its Facts...If not..Just opinion. Hopefully it works the same way with the gun problem.  My Opinion!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Riiiight. No need to play victim. Just going to continue to show the facts as they come along. And the question you say to email will instead be asked in public to Kip himself. Should be an interesting reply!

Do you understand english? Two separate subjects. You show whatever "facts" you want to, i dont care, but keep the language under control. You are trying to play the victim card because you and i disagree on the subject matter.

Also, i never suggested that you email Matt Ross. Go back and look at who i was talking to.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sorry buddy but every fact that has been shown is gospel on the QDMA website Funny how that works out. If the words agree with your kind of thinking..Its Facts...If not..Just opinion. Hopefully it works the same way with the gun problem. My Opinion!

Forum posts are gospel now?