Posted signs

[jrm]

From the DEC site

Q. What is posting under the Environmental Conservation Law?

A. People who want to control access to their property without personally seeing everyone who enters may post signs warning people to keep out. This may be done with simple "Keep Out" signs under the Penal Law, but for rural properties with many possible points of entry, a few signs may not be effective. Where activities such as hunting, fishing and trapping are concerned, the Environmental Conservation Law provides more specific guidelines which make posting more effective.

 

Thanks, I must have missed that one. I think the DEC recently re-did their FAQ on this.

 

Do you know where/if ECL is available online? The answer DEC provides is interesting in that is does not rule out "KEEP OUT" signs for ECL enforcement purposes. It simply states that ECL "guidelines" (not rules) are more "effective" (not required). From a curiosity standpoint, I would like to see how the actual rules are worded. For all we know, it could be a crack legal team or a barely literate teenager with no clue writing the FAQ answers.

[jrm]

Agreed, and it is nice to know the sheriff or the ECO can handle the issue, especially for those who mentioned limited ECO's in their area.

 

Yes - but the way I understand it, and ECO can only handle EC issues - hunting, fishing, trapping. If the trespass does not involve those areas, then you need to go through the sheriff/regular law enforcement. That "jurisdiction" issue is not directly connected to posting.

Edited September 22, 2014 by jrm

[mt624]

Yes - but the way I understand it, and ECO can only handle EC issues - hunting, fishing, trapping. If the trespass does not involved those areas, then you need to go through the sheriff/regular law enforcement. That "jurisdiction" issue is not directly connected to posting.

 

That's why I asked Culvercreek the question, and ask anyone who knows - Does it make a difference from a legal standpoint if the person trespassing is hunting or not?

 

[jrm]

That's why I asked Culvercreek the question, and ask anyone who knows - Does it make a difference from a legal standpoint if the person trespassing is hunting or not?

 

 

From everything I have read, the only difference is that DEC can enforce when the trespass is hunting related. I don't know the specifics, but they have fines and I imagine the power to revoke a hunting license. If the trespass is not hunting related, the DEC does not have the power to do anything.

 

On the other side, even if the trespass involves hunting, the sheriff can levy additional charges/penalties beyond what the DEC can enforce.

 

For example, a hunter is trespassing on your land. You tell him to leave and he threatens to shoot you. The DEC can fine him for trespass and the sheriff can arrest him on based on the threat.

 

So trespass is bad on its own, but trespass while hunting just opens you up for additional fines/problems.

 

Trespass always violates the penal code. Trespass while hunting ALSO violates the ECL.

[New York Hillbilly]

You see! That's the type of stuff that makes my blood boil. The thought of shooting at anything next to a house you don't own or have permission is deserving of an ass kicking. I don't screw around when it comes to safety, and the disrespect issue is a close second for me because it threatens safety. People who deliberately make poor choices in one area likely do so in many areas. Poor judgement and disregard for others is a dangerous combination when firearms are involved. A guy who would shoot a coyote in someone's yard is just as apt to shoot at a deer up on the ridge behind my house. And the chance of hitting one of my family on my hill is no less likely than in that yard.

I was just thinking. Maybe a thread should be started on just how a trespasser should be approached.

Edited September 22, 2014 by New York Hillbilly

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That's why I asked Culvercreek the question, and ask anyone who knows - Does it make a difference from a legal standpoint if the person trespassing is hunting or not?

 

Both instances I was involved in were hunting related. we went through DEC. Did have an issue once with a neighbor of land I had permission to hunt but she (the neighbor) didn't want it hunted. She did call the Sheriff on us 4 times before they finally told her to back off (because she had no grounds to call).

 

 

ECL section on posting (note comment on both sides of corners)

 

§ 11-2111. Posting; service of notice.

    1. An area protected pursuant to this title and title nineteen of this

  article shall be posted with signs not less than eleven inches by eleven

  inches, bearing a conspicuous statement as described in subdivision 2 of

  this  section  which  shall cover a space of not less than eighty square

  inches. Such signs shall be posted not more than six hundred sixty  feet

  apart, close to and along the boundaries of the area protected. At least

  one  sign shall be posted on each side of the protected area and on each

  side of each corner of the protected area, provided the  corner  can  be

  reasonably  ascertained.  Illegible or torn-down signs shall be replaced

  at least once a year. Replacement of notices on state game refuges shall

  be made in March, July, August or September.

    2. Signs shall  bear  the  name  and  address  of  the  owner,  lawful

  occupant,  or  other  person  or  organization  authorized  to  post the

  protected area.  Signs shall bear a conspicuous  statement  which  shall

  either  (a)  consist of the word "posted", or ( warn against entry for

  specified purposes or all purposes without the consent of the person  or

  organization   authorized  to  post  the  protected  area.  A  statement

  consisting of the word "Posted" shall  have  the  effect  of  a  warning

  against  all  such  acts.    The  department may by regulation authorize

  additional contents of such signs, including but not limited to  symbols

  indicating the acts which are prohibited.

 

 

 

A tid bit if you catch someone ripping down your signs or posting your property without your permission --ECL Law-

 

§ 11-2113. Effect of posting or service of notice.

    1.  No  person  shall  enter  or  remain  unlawfully  or engage in any

  activity upon land which has been posted pursuant to section 11-2111  in

  violation  of the terms of such posted signs or the terms of any written

  notice and warning served upon such person pursuant to subdivision  four

  of section 11-2111.

    2. No person shall post any sign prohibiting or limiting activities on

  land  pursuant to this article, unless authorized to do so by the owner,

  lawful occupant or other person or organization having authority to post

  such lands.

    3. No unauthorized person shall injure, conceal, deface  or  remove  a

  sign erected and maintained as provided in section 11-2111.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Enforcement

Q. Is it an offense to trespass on areas posted against trespass pursuant to the Environmental Conservation law?

A. Yes, it is a violation, punishable by a fine up to $250 and/or up to 15 days in jail.

Q. Is it illegal to tear down someone else's posted sign?

A. Yes. A person who, while hunting, fishing, or trapping, damages property, posted signs, livestock or other property can be assessed damages, as determined by the court in addition to the penalties described above.

Q. How should the owner or lessee of posted property go about prosecuting a person for trespass?

A. If they witnessed the trespass, they should write down as much information as possible to assist the police in identifying the person. They should then contact an Environmental Conservation Officer or any other police officer for assistance. Environmental Conservation Officers make arrest for, and prosecute trespass, particularly if it relates to hunting, fishing, trapping, or disturbing wildlife.

 

 

Call whoever you think can get there the fastest and who you may have  the best relationship with.

[Curmudgeon]

You see! That's the type of stuff that makes my blood boil. The thought of shooting at anything next to a house you don't own or have permission is deserving of an ass kicking. I don't screw around when it comes to safety, and the disrespect issue is a close second for me because it threatens safety. People who deliberately make poor choices in one area likely do so in many areas. Poor judgement and disregard for others is a dangerous combination when firearms are involved. A guy who would shoot a coyote in someone's yard is just as apt to shoot at a deer up on the ridge behind my house. And the chance of hitting one of my family on my hill is no less likely than in that yard.

I was just thinking. Maybe a thread should be started on just how a trespasser should be approached.

 

Just to clarify, the shooter was 30 yards from the house. The coyote was further. It is interesting that the hunter wasn't charged with trespassing even though he shot over posted land at an animal on posted land. He was charged with shooting from a road and within 500 feet of a house.

 

[jrm]

 

 

ECL section on posting (note comment on both sides of corners)

 

 Thanks for posting this. Very helpful to see the actual wording of the law.

 

Again - is the full law section available anywhere online? I can only find penal codes online.

 

If I am reading this correctly, according to ECL all you need on a sign is name, address and the single word "POSTED." Interesting.

[muckland1]

That is not true.  It is not the same as being on your yard.  If there are no posted signs you can not be charged.  If there are posted signs and there is no name or address you can not be charged.  If the posted signs are not put up correctly ( a certain amount of feet next to each other)  you can not be charged............. 

REALLY..... YOU ARE SO WORNG!!!! CLUELESS!!! I HAVE THE TICKETS TO PROVE IT...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

REALLY..... YOU ARE SO WORNG!!!! CLUELESS!!! I HAVE THE TICKETS TO PROVE IT...

unimproved property? if that is true, you should have gotten a better lawyer.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 Thanks for posting this. Very helpful to see the actual wording of the law.

 

Again - is the full law section available anywhere online? I can only find penal codes online.

 

If I am reading this correctly, according to ECL all you need on a sign is name, address and the single word "POSTED." Interesting.

Enjoy the reading...lol. Put on something comfortable for when you fall asleep

 

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@LLENV+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=EXPLORER+&TOKEN=59163931+&TARGET=VIEW

[jrm]

Thanks much for that. Don't know why I had so much trouble finding it.

 

Yes, it is very boring reading. I still like a legitimate reference point to go back to. Too many people "know" the rule without ever having seen the rules. There is quite a bit of incorrect (read: BS) information out there, some perpetuated by people who should know better and are given the responsibility of teaching it to others.

[stoneam2006]

REALLY..... YOU ARE SO WORNG!!!! CLUELESS!!! I HAVE THE TICKETS TO PROVE IT...

Charged and convicted are different you can be charged with anything. If you were convicted of this then it is true you either didn't try to fight it or your lawyer is clueless.

[Ford]

ECO's are Police Officers, and can actually enforce any NY laws. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

ECO's are Police Officers, and can actually enforce any NY laws. Just thought I would throw that out there.

As are NY Rangers.

[Elmo]

Man, is there anything Henrik Lundqvist doesn't do?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thphm]

As are NY Rangers.

 

They go threw the DEC school / then go the the NYS police school { same as a trooper ) from what I have been told.

Many are hunters like you and I , But can bust your chops if you brake the Law. 

[Five Seasons]

Hey Curmudgeon, do you really have coyote hunters coming onto your posted land? I have never run into that problem. In fact I have even asked fellas here to got get them on my property after deer season but they hunt with hounds and for whatever reason have never taken me up on the offer.

I've never met a hunter who owns land that did not allow yote hunters access after deer season. Same even for turkey. It's the all mighty whitetail or animal rights activists that tend to be the most enforced.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Belo

[Curmudgeon]

I've never met a hunter who owns land that did not allow yote hunters access after deer season. Same even for turkey. It's the all mighty whitetail or animal rights activists that tend to be the most enforced.

Like Will Rogers who never met a man he didn't like, you haven't met me or some of my neighbors. It's the same as those people who asked how someone won an election when no one they know voted for him. You are only talking to people who think like you.

 

I allow deer hunting (trying to fill as many DMAP and DMP tags as possible), small game hunting, etc. I do not allow coyote hunting. It serves no purpose. I like coyotes. And, the local hunters are badly behaved. As an aside, I also had one steal from me while trespassing. Without going into detail, we know it was a coyote hunter. The local ECO went around talking to them as a warning.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Like Will Rogers who never met a man he didn't like, you haven't met me or some of my neighbors. It's the same as those people who asked how someone won an election when no one they know voted for him. You are only talking to people who think like you.

I allow deer hunting (trying to fill as many DMAP and DMP tags as possible), small game hunting, etc. I do not allow coyote hunting. It serves no purpose. I like coyotes. And, the local hunters are badly behaved. As an aside, I also had one steal from me while trespassing. Without going into detail, we know it was a coyote hunter. The local ECO went around talking to them as a warning.

Serves no purpose?

[Curmudgeon]

I spoke quickly during a lunch break on a nice day - no ecological purpose. Certainly, it serves the purposes of the people who hunt them. My land management decisions are based first on the health of my forest. Killing coyotes does not change deer populations. It only disrupts the coyote social order causing more to reproduce.

 

Bye.........

 

[Five Seasons]

Like Will Rogers who never met a man he didn't like, you haven't met me or some of my neighbors. It's the same as those people who asked how someone won an election when no one they know voted for him. You are only talking to people who think like you.

I allow deer hunting (trying to fill as many DMAP and DMP tags as possible), small game hunting, etc. I do not allow coyote hunting. It serves no purpose. I like coyotes. And, the local hunters are badly behaved. As an aside, I also had one steal from me while trespassing. Without going into detail, we know it was a coyote hunter. The local ECO went around talking to them as a warning.

Lol I know plenty of hunters who think nothing like me. I am not bashing your rights and understand your view. But I must say it's rare.

No purpose huh? Now that's absolutely a first

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I spoke quickly during a lunch break on a nice day - no ecological purpose. Certainly, it serves the purposes of the people who hunt them. My land management decisions are based first on the health of my forest. Killing coyotes does not change deer populations. It only disrupts the coyote social order causing more to reproduce.

 

Bye.........

Bye?

 

Huh. just so I get the tally right.

 

Coyote control- NO

Lead ammunition- NO

 

For the record, how do you feel about Cuomo and he Safe Act?

[Curmudgeon]

Bye?

 

Huh. just so I get the tally right.

 

Coyote control- NO

Lead ammunition- NO

 

For the record, how do you feel about Cuomo and he Safe Act?

 

"Bye" because I had to go back to work. You haven't gotten rid of me.

 

No lead on the property. No coyote shooting. Don't like Cuomo or the safe act. Don't like Astorino because he is pro-fracking. Who do I vote for?

 

Back to Belo - He suggests that posted signs only apply to deer hunters, not to coyote hunters. Is there anyone out there who feels that way?

 

Edited September 24, 2014 by Curmudgeon